is bubbling a lot bad? how to change it

[ldudeus 0]

obviously it is badhowever, recently i have been bubbling numerous times in tournaments, and i was wondering if there aRE ANY METHODS TO AVOID THIS.damn caps lockim not changing itanywayssituations have come up wherre i get At in 7th position, and a recently tight table.it is folded to mer and my M is below 5I go all inthe sb wakes up w/ qqgame overthings like thatmy moves werent wrong but should i tighten up around the bubble like everyone? or, not tighten up, but be less aggressivesuggestions?its late and im nopt thinking straightthx for commentsLeo T

[DDiabolical 0]

Personally I like to go out in the first 10 minutes to avoid this situation.As for tightening/loosening it depends on if you're looking to cash or looking to win? It's a great time to start pushing people around and it sounds like you may have just got unlucky.

[Guest XXEddie]

Is Bubbling a lot bad????quit ditching english to smoke marijuana[/b]

[Dubey 1,035]

7aRE ANY METHODS TO AVOID THIS.damn caps lockim not changing it

hahahaha that was classic on at least 3 levels.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

Just run into bad timing sometimes.

[Loismustdie 0]

Aggressive players are going to bust on the bubble alot, or in the first ten or twenty minutes. You will win some tourneys as well, it is the way to go.

[PFunk 0]

situations have come up wherre i get At in 7th position, and a recently tight table.it is folded to mer and my M is below 5I go all inthe sb wakes up w/ qqgame overthings like thatmy moves werent wrong but should i tighten up around the bubble like everyone?  

Your "moves" were wrong imo, going on the information given-P.

[Guest]

Read Dan Harringtons books, they give excellent tourny advice.

[loxo 0]

Read Dan Harringtons books, they give excellent tourny advice.

Good advice.Stack sizes ,blinds and all that jazz are important.IMHO you dont want to be going all-in with A10 unless you are short stacked.Sure you can steal but do you need to be All in?Again chip counts and blinds.

[bdams19 0]

if you're bubbling too much, it may be that you're putting yourself in that position too often. steal steal steal, get more chips and play to win

[Teph 0]

Since Harrington's books (and others) are so well known, people started being stupidly aggressive around the bubble, thus people are now calling stations around the bubble a lot of the time. Although with M < 5, pushes with any Ace are acceptable, you will wind up losing a lot of these.Perfect example, in a 20+2 180 max on PStars, we were right next to bubbleI am in BB with 53os, I have M < 5. It folds around to the sb (M < 7), he calls, I push. He thinks for a couple seconds and calls with 10h 7h. Poker tournaments are so easy now because of stupid people. Unfortunately, I often find myself bubbling lately too, and I do not consider myself a very aggro player around the bubble.

[doublemeup 0]

obviously it is badhowever, recently i have been bubbling numerous times in tournaments, and i was wondering if there aRE ANY METHODS TO AVOID THIS.damn caps lockim not changing itanywayssituations have come up wherre i get At in 7th position, and a recently tight table.it is folded to mer and my M is below 5I go all inthe sb wakes up w/ qqgame overthings like thatmy moves werent wrong but should i tighten up around the bubble like everyone?  or, not tighten up, but be less aggressivesuggestions?its late and im nopt thinking straightthx for commentsLeo T

buddy it happens to all of us. the worst thing you can do is tighten up at the bubble. why would you just be playing to make the money? thats just silly. If you're playing to make the money then you shouldn't be playing at all. Last night i was in a tournament and the bubble was about to burst and knowing that most people like to just make the money i always take advantage of that. I check raised all in with 7 high after the flop. I knew the guy would fold as he did. You have to do the opposite of what you're opponents do. Don't play for the bubble, play for the win. (btw, i finished 4rth)

[skipeddoda 0]

depends on your motivation if u barely wanna cash then play supertight near bubble but if u wanna win be agressive early and often

[Teph 0]

depends on your motivation if u barely wanna cash then play supertight near bubble but if u wanna win be agressive early and often

Dude, that's like saying 3+2 = 5. That doesn't even qualify as advice, lol.

[skipeddoda 0]

depends on your motivation if u barely wanna cash then play supertight near bubble but if u wanna win be agressive early and often

Dude, that's like saying 3+2 = 5. That doesn't even qualify as advice, lol.

sorry im busy winning the 2500 gaurentee on ub lol

[Teph 0]

depends on your motivation if u barely wanna cash then play supertight near bubble but if u wanna win be agressive early and often

Dude, that's like saying 3+2 = 5. That doesn't even qualify as advice, lol.

sorry im busy winning the 2500 gaurentee on ub lol

Well my strategy there would be to try and obtain all of the chips on the table. Hope that helps.

[doublemeup 0]

depends on your motivation if u barely wanna cash then play supertight near bubble but if u wanna win be agressive early and often

Dude, that's like saying 3+2 = 5. That doesn't even qualify as advice, lol.

sorry im busy winning the 2500 gaurentee on ub lol

Well my strategy there would be to try and obtain all of the chips on the table. Hope that helps.

lol

[NickG 0]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but if you are on a very small stack and near the bubble, you should just play tight and try to make the money. Most tournament pay-out structures look something like this:200 players$100 buy-in10th-18th: $1609th : $1808th: $2007th - 4th: a little more3rd - 1st: real moneyAt the start of the tournament, you need to make it your goal to win. But if you find yourself with 20 players left, and you are in 17th, and the chip leader has 100x as many chips as you, winning is unrealistic. You should just try to wait the shorter stacks out and take your money. At this point, doubling up doesn't help a lot. Maybe you''ll last to 15th or 14th...maybe even until 9th. But it really isn't any more money. So don't try anything risky.Now, this would not be true in a tournament where the pay-out structure is more evenly sloped...for instance, a 2-table SNG with a 40/30/20/10 structure. In this case, you need to go every place up the ladder you can...getting 4th isn't worth much.

[doublemeup 0]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but if you are on a very small stack and near the bubble, you should just play tight and try to make the money. Most tournament pay-out structures look something like this:200 players$100 buy-in10th-18th: $1609th : $1808th: $2007th - 4th: a little more3rd - 1st: real moneyAt the start of the tournament, you need to make it your goal to win. But if you find yourself with 20 players left, and you are in 17th, and the chip leader has 100x as many chips as you, winning is unrealistic. You should just try to wait the shorter stacks out and take your money. At this point, doubling up doesn't help a lot. Maybe you''ll last to 15th or 14th...maybe even until 9th. But it really isn't any more money. So don't try anything risky.Now, this would not be true in a tournament where the pay-out structure is more evenly sloped...for instance, a 2-table SNG with a 40/30/20/10 structure. In this case, you need to go every place up the ladder you can...getting 4th isn't worth much.

ok you obviously know nothing about tournaments. if you're a smart poker player, you're goal throughout the whole tournament is to win. i was down to 1 chip very very early on in a tournament. did i say "this is impossible, i can't win!"? no!! of course not, you're never out of a tournament until you have no chips left in front of you. by sitting out near the money, you don't give yourself a chance to win. you're playing to get your money back and a little more instead of 40X your money. if you're in the wsop with very little chips left and you're near the bubble and if you just sit back for a big hand then you can't make a half year worth of hard labor then thats a different story. otherwise, playing to make the money is pathetic.

[NickG 0]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but if you are on a very small stack and near the  bubble, you should just play tight and try to make the money.  Most tournament pay-out structures look something like this:200 players$100 buy-in10th-18th: $1609th : $1808th: $2007th - 4th: a little more3rd - 1st: real moneyAt the start of the tournament, you need to make it your goal to win.  But if you find yourself with 20 players left, and you are in 17th, and the chip leader has 100x as many chips as you, winning is unrealistic.  You should just try to wait the shorter stacks out and take your money.  At this point, doubling up doesn't help a lot.  Maybe you''ll last to 15th or 14th...maybe even until 9th.  But it really isn't any more money.   So don't try anything risky.Now, this would not be true in a tournament where the pay-out structure is more evenly sloped...for instance, a 2-table SNG with a 40/30/20/10 structure.  In this case, you need to go every place up the ladder you can...getting 4th isn't worth much.

ok you obviously know nothing about tournaments. if you're a smart poker player, you're goal throughout the whole tournament is to win. i was down to 1 chip very very early on in a tournament. did i say "this is impossible, i can't win!"? no!! of course not, you're never out of a tournament until you have no chips left in front of you. by sitting out near the money, you don't give yourself a chance to win. you're playing to get your money back and a little more instead of 40X your money. if you're in the wsop with very little chips left and you're near the bubble and if you just sit back for a big hand then you can't make a half year worth of hard labor then thats a different story. otherwise, playing to make the money is pathetic.

It's a nice thing to say you should always try to win, but if you are an extremely short stack, your chance to win can be so remote that it's not worth the risk.Lets say in a 200 person tournament, you have 0.5% of the chips (down to your starting stack) and are in 17th place out of 20 players, with 18 getting paid, and with 10th-18th each taking $200, and first taking $4000.If 3 other players cannot survive their blinds, you have a very good chance (maybe 4/5) of making the money by just folding everything. You will probably go out in 18th or 17th, but you'll still make money.Your equity here is: (4/5) * 200 = $160.Of course, you could risk it and try to double up a few times. With 0.5% of the chips in play, you have a 0.5% chance to win the tournament. You probably have a similar chance of placing 2nd ($2000) or 3rd ($1200)...Your equity for these positions would be:(0.5)*(4000+2000+1200) = $36The similar chances of making money for other final table places maybe takes this equity up to $50.Plus some other equity from doubling up a couple times before going out with a minimum cash. But it's still WAY below the equity you get from just folding...because most of the time, you'll get knocked out on the first or second double-up attempt.When you are extremely short-stacked, you have to realize how unlikely you are to win the tournament. I know everyone has a story, but these are anecdotes. And we don't make money through anecdotes, we make money by making positive expected value decisions. Risking a short stack for a virtually meaningless double-up near the bubble is not +EV.Finally, the the fact that you were down to 1 chip early in a tournament has little to do with this discussion. Early in the tournment, playing to win and playing to cash are basically the same thing if you have a short stack...you have to double up quickly to do either. It is only on or near the bubble that the strategies diverge.

[getarealjob 0]

There are too many factors to consider to see whether it's a substantive fundamental problem in your no limit tournament approach. Size of the field, tournament structure, the number of tournaments you've bubbled, etc. It could be variance, it could be your basic no limit tournament technique.That said, bubble-itis usually means you are playing to finish in the money, and that means you are not taking enough calculated gambles in early stages.

[doublemeup 0]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but if you are on a very small stack and near the  bubble, you should just play tight and try to make the money.  Most tournament pay-out structures look something like this:200 players$100 buy-in10th-18th: $1609th : $1808th: $2007th - 4th: a little more3rd - 1st: real moneyAt the start of the tournament, you need to make it your goal to win.  But if you find yourself with 20 players left, and you are in 17th, and the chip leader has 100x as many chips as you, winning is unrealistic.  You should just try to wait the shorter stacks out and take your money.  At this point, doubling up doesn't help a lot.  Maybe you''ll last to 15th or 14th...maybe even until 9th.  But it really isn't any more money.   So don't try anything risky.Now, this would not be true in a tournament where the pay-out structure is more evenly sloped...for instance, a 2-table SNG with a 40/30/20/10 structure.  In this case, you need to go every place up the ladder you can...getting 4th isn't worth much.

ok you obviously know nothing about tournaments. if you're a smart poker player, you're goal throughout the whole tournament is to win. i was down to 1 chip very very early on in a tournament. did i say "this is impossible, i can't win!"? no!! of course not, you're never out of a tournament until you have no chips left in front of you. by sitting out near the money, you don't give yourself a chance to win. you're playing to get your money back and a little more instead of 40X your money. if you're in the wsop with very little chips left and you're near the bubble and if you just sit back for a big hand then you can't make a half year worth of hard labor then thats a different story. otherwise, playing to make the money is pathetic.

It's a nice thing to say you should always try to win, but if you are an extremely short stack, your chance to win can be so remote that it's not worth the risk.Lets say in a 200 person tournament, you have 0.5% of the chips (down to your starting stack) and are in 17th place out of 20 players, with 18 getting paid, and with 10th-18th each taking $200, and first taking $4000.If 3 other players cannot survive their blinds, you have a very good chance (maybe 4/5) of making the money by just folding everything. You will probably go out in 18th or 17th, but you'll still make money.Your equity here is: (4/5) * 200 = $160.Of course, you could risk it and try to double up a few times. With 0.5% of the chips in play, you have a 0.5% chance to win the tournament. You probably have a similar chance of placing 2nd ($2000) or 3rd ($1200)...Your equity for these positions would be:(0.5)*(4000+2000+1200) = $36The similar chances of making money for other final table places maybe takes this equity up to $50.Plus some other equity from doubling up a couple times before going out with a minimum cash. But it's still WAY below the equity you get from just folding...because most of the time, you'll get knocked out on the first or second double-up attempt.When you are extremely short-stacked, you have to realize how unlikely you are to win the tournament. I know everyone has a story, but these are anecdotes. And we don't make money through anecdotes, we make money by making positive expected value decisions. Risking a short stack for a virtually meaningless double-up near the bubble is not +EV.Finally, the the fact that you were down to 1 chip early in a tournament has little to do with this discussion. Early in the tournment, playing to win and playing to cash are basically the same thing if you have a short stack...you have to double up quickly to do either. It is only on or near the bubble that the strategies diverge.

Ask DN how many times that when the bubble was about to burst and he was a big short stack that he just sat out to make the money. Hell, ask any pro player. Its a stupid mentality to just sit out and fold every hand just to get your money back. Those types of players never win tournaments. Tournaments aren't big moneymakers in general. I don't feel that accomplished when i make the money. I feel accomplished when i win a poker tournament. Thats why you enter them.

[NickG 0]

If you enter tournaments to "feel accomplished", then feel free to play to win at all costs. But that's not how you make money. You make money by pushing small edges, and folding on the bubble is one of those. I'd welcome any input from pro players here, but I don't think you should just presume to knowwhat they would say.

[doublemeup 0]

If you enter tournaments to "feel accomplished", then feel free to play to win at all costs.  But that's not how you make money.  You make money by pushing small edges, and folding on the bubble is one of those.  I'd welcome any input from pro players here, but I don't think you should just presume to knowwhat they would say.

ATTENTION ALL PRO POKER PLAYERS: DO YOU PLAY FOR THE BUBBLE OR THE TOURNAMENT WIN?

[NickG 0]

Just to specify again, I am only talking about situations where you have a very small stack and are very close to the bubble. If you actually have decent chance to win, e.g. you are around the chip average, by all means play aggressively and build up chips against people who are afraid of bubbling out.