would you cheat????

[Tateisgo 0]

I would not cheat.  For those of you who say if you play for money, you have to cheat when the opportunity arises, I say that's a severly flawed argument.  I go to my day job "just for money" day in and day out.  Every day when I leave, there are hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of unlocked computer equipment laying around the office.  It would be all too easy to take a laptop now and then, and hawk it.  Do I despise money because I dont?  Do you steal from your employer everytime the opportunity to do so without getting caught arises?  Just because someone does something solely for money doesn't mean greed has to trump integrity.  Anyone who would cheat is quite frankly a horrible human being.  I have made good and bad choices in my life.  I have been a horrible human being at times too.  I try to aim a little higher for the most part though.

If there was a program to do your job for you and you still got paid would you use it?

[TS Clark 0]

*shrug*  Sure it stealing. Its also not going to ever happen for real, so who cares who thinks about doing it? Like I said before, I just felt it was a bit spoilsport for Dan (and others) to come in here ripping people for answering yes, when I think most of answered yes out of fun, not evil.

I would tend to agree with you, except for the part where people started to jump all over those who said "no" to the original question. As soon as people started saying "anyone who said they wouldn't is a liar" and the like, you knew it was going to get touchy.Integrity is a serious issue to lots of people, particularly those of us who play poker in the face of disapproval from some of those we're close to -- part of that disapproval being that these people feel it's a dishonest way to make money and is filled with bad people. I certainly didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings with my reply, but I definitely wanted to state my opinion on this. It's one I (and many others) clearly feel strongly about.

[TS Clark 0]

If there was a program to do your job for you and you still got paid would you use it?

This is a ludicrious comparison (if that's what you're actually doing -- if not, I apologize). And the answer to your question would be "no" if using that program cheated the company I worked for, cheated other people, or made me feel like I was compromising my self-respect or integrity.

[sinatrasgirl19 0]

This thread is seriously disgusting......

[RayPowers 0]

I would tend to agree with you, except for the part where people started to jump all over those who said "no" to the original question. As soon as people started saying "anyone who said they wouldn't is a liar" and the like, you knew it was going to get touchy.Integrity is a serious issue to lots of people, particularly those of us who play poker in the face of disapproval from some of those we're close to -- part of that disapproval being that these people feel it's a dishonest way to make money and is filled with bad people. I certainly didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings with my reply, but I definitely wanted to state my opinion on this. It's one I (and many others) clearly feel strongly about.

Ok, I will amend my earlier spoil sport statement to include those who harassed the people who said "anyone who said no is a liar," because you are right, those people were being spoil sports too, and yes, I can see why it would make the "no" contingent defensive enough to start spouting off the things that they did.I *OBVIOUSLY* got touchy when someone I respect as a person (Dan) said I should go to jail for answering yes on a poll that to me, has zero bearing on reality. I think I am a very honest and good person, and take defamation of my character seriously. I may occasionally play a smartass on the forums, but that's all in good fun..Ray

[Tateisgo 0]

If there was a program to do your job for you and you still got paid would you use it?

This is a ludicrious comparison (if that's what you're actually doing -- if not, I apologize). And the answer to your question would be "no" if using that program cheated the company I worked for, cheated other people, or made me feel like I was compromising my self-respect or integrity.

Wasn't a comparison at all.Just curiosity.

[monix 0]

I am very surpised at the number of people who said yes, and by the lame justifications for doing so...

[Wingmaster05 0]

When a hypothetical is stated, you're supposed to assume it is real, for the sake of argument.  With your logic, the moment someone says, "let's say...", you would just say whatever first comes to mind, because it doesn't matter?  If the question was, "would it be cool to be in Ocean's 11", then a lot would say yes.  But to take part in it?  No.  In this case, assume the device is very real and you have access to it.  You should go to jail if you did use it, because it's cheating.  I agree no one should go to jail for thinking something...that was an over statement.

This is a poll based on a Tritz thread that we all bashed for days, and I am supposed to take it seriously? You are a funny man. :)It would have taken a lot more in the initial post for me to have even thought of taking it seriously. The original post would have had to a) not have had "????" in the title.B) been spellchecked.c) Laid out more ground about and storyline to it, instead of being a blatant Tritz reference.Even then, I'm not sure I would have taken it seriously any more than the question "Hypothetically, what would you do if you won the lattery?" Why, because I'm not winning the lottery any time soon, so there's no reason to give it serious consideration. Therefore, all that is left is the glib response of "I'd fly to tahiti!" or the ever popular "Two chicks.. at the same time." The same applies to this question. Its not happeneing, so I'm not going to give it a ton of serious consideration. I will give it some FUN consideration though, and my fun joking side thinks "Heck yeah! That would be Funny!" because it's not bothering to think of consequences of these actions. *shrug* Sure it stealing. Its also not going to ever happen for real, so who cares who thinks about doing it? Like I said before, I just felt it was a bit spoilsport for Dan (and others) to come in here ripping people for answering yes, when I think most of answered yes out of fun, not evil.Ray

It seemed like all of the people responding were answering honestly, as though it could be real. It was an obvious reference to tritz, but everyone took it as though the OP wanted some real thought. But i see your point, as I have answered jokingly to things like this, so no harm done. Of course if someone asked what you would do if you won the lottery you would probably give a cool, funny response (what jokster wouldnt?). The question we have here is meant to see if you think there is anything morally wrong.

[agsa6079 0]

Again, I'm am elated at the way people offer up such insight into their character and their true level of understanding the game.Why is it that so many people in this community are so quick to point out how little the cards matter, how you have to play the man, not the cards, etc. would also be the first to jump on the chance to have the opportunity to see your opponents cards as the game developed.Have nono of you actually read any of the books that you so lovingly quote? Do you NOT understand all of the advanced math that is so easy to quote from a computer program? The level of knowledge about poker theory and concepts here is huge, but like so many children, its no more than a pattern of memorized Cliff Notes. And we wonder why this nations slides further into the abyss. Look at our future.If you really believe the poker analogies and theories you spew out so vehemntly, understand that your game play shouldn't really change, even if you could see your opponents cards, nor will the outcome. There will still be one outers that catch, and you will lose coinflips, regardless the fact that you can see cards. The only thing it will do for you "poker afficianados" is make you more upset when you lose, and make your game play that much weaker.Cheating is stealing. If you were victim to this scheme, your tune would change. Attitudes tlike the majority displayed here are disappointing, to say the least. At a time when poker can be brought to the forefront of legitimacy, it is sad that the reputation that tarnished the game is so alive and well among today's youth.DN: I liked your blog and the subsequent ripping of the WSOP for vanquishing so many games. Hold 'em is my least favorite form of poker (but my highest yeild ROI!!). I have been longing for a low limit mixed game OL since I started playing.

[btlee 0]

I would hope most people that are playing the lotto are only putting up 5 dollars max, the majority of people spending just a dollar.

My guess is you don't live in a lottery state, or you've never bought tickets.I buy 1 ticket ($2) if it gets high ($100mill+)I can tell you that more times than not there is some ragged lady who gets out of a smoking car with 3 dirty crying shoeless kids that hands the cashier $100 and says give me 50 numbers. or a guy who still has his hard hat in his hand cashes his paycheck and buys a 12 pack and 20 numbers. Statistically, the lottery (megaball) is fueled by people at an average age of 37 making between $25-35K. and they spend an average of $12 per purchase. (had to do research for a class a couple years back)I'm all for the lottery and view it as free choice, but just wanted to correct the "most people...$5 max" statement

[RayPowers 0]

It seemed like all of the people responding were answering honestly, as though it could be real. It was an obvious reference to tritz, but everyone took it as though the OP wanted some real thought. But i see your point, as I have answered jokingly to things like this, so no harm done. Of course if someone asked what you would do if you won the lottery you would probably give a cool, funny response (what jokster wouldnt?). The question we have here is meant to see if you think there is anything morally wrong.

As I never buy a lottery ticket, me winning the lottery would be morally wrong. Actually I think that's not what was asked here, as I also could make a pretty good argument that, for some people these two questions have the same answer:1. Would you do it?2. Do you think it is morally wrong?In fact I'm seen a couple of people say "Yes, it is wrong, but I would do it."So, no, that's not what is really being asked, but it is what the discussion is evolving into, I admit. Ray

[Royal_Tour 0]

If you had a Sports Almenac like in Back to the Future, would u bet on all the winning horses and teams???I mean, who areyou cheating then? government? bookies? Is it different if u cheat the government instead of a person?

[btlee 0]

Is it different if u cheat the government instead of a person?

yeah. I'd just be returniong the favor.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Is it different if u cheat the government instead of a person?

yeah. I'd just be returniong the favor.

So is it ok to cheat for a lottery draw??i mean its a government run thing, but all the money comes from people.but because u arent directly cheating 1 person, its ok to win the lottery knowing you cheated?

[RayPowers 0]

So is it ok to cheat for a lottery draw??i mean its a government run thing, but all the money comes from people.but because u arent directly cheating 1 person, its ok to win the lottery knowing you cheated?

Because it's fun to follow this chain of logic.. doesn't all of the government money come from people? Last I checked none of our governments are selling goods and services......Ray

[Royal_Tour 0]

So is it ok to cheat for a lottery draw??i mean its a government run thing, but all the money comes from people.but because u arent directly cheating 1 person, its ok to win the lottery knowing you cheated?

Because it's fun to follow this chain of logic.. doesn't all of the government money come from people? Last I checked none of our governments are selling goods and services......Ray

exactly., but i'm sure the majority would take money from the government with the notion that "i'm getting back whats mine" even if it was a ridiculous amount more

[Royal_Tour 0]

So.. basically heres another question.Would the people who answered No to cheating witha program ever consider using it in a MTT?U arent directly cheating 1 player out of hard earned money, but rather just giving urself an advantage to win a chunk of money from the hosting casino.Sure all the money came from the players, but its technically the casino's money now, i'm just taking what i deserve.????

[CaneBrain 95]

What if a poker site sent you a cashout check by accident? would you return it? What if your bank made an error and put an extra grand in your account. Do you tell them?I understand perfectly the people who say that being able to magically see other people's hole cards is stealing and thats that.But some of you are acting a little holier than thou about where you draw the line.I mean if you find a 100 dollar bill on the street do you turn it in? Post signs?There is a difference between being honorable and looking a gifthorse in the mouth.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I'll tell you this right now people, i wouldnt use a program to cheat people out of money,But i would buy a lottery ticket if i knew what the numbers are going to be.Is there anyone here, (OP) who turns down 11.5 million?

[Don Giovanni 0]

No, I'd not cheat.I'm agnostic, so it's not based on religious views, or being afraid of doing something illegal. If it harms or takes advantage of another person, it's just plain wrong. I wouldn't be able to live with myself.If I get home from the grocery store, and noticed they did not charge me for a $2. item, I will go back the next do to pay for it.Yes, they look at me like I'm crazy.

now thats just stupid. your gonna waste gas going back to the grocery store and pay for a $2 item? that company doesnt need your $2. stop being ridiculous.

Wow.Jump to conclusions, then tell someone that they are being stupid and ridiculous.Gotta admit, nh, didn't expect that....ok I'll play.Tthe "company", regardless of it's size, is owned by a human being. And it matters that a human being is being affected. If there is a "leak" in the way things are being done, they might want to fix it. Okay, so a huge corporation...2$ big deal. But what if it's independantly owned by your neighbor?This store is owned by a family. Am I still being stupid?As far as wasting gas. I pass this store every day, on my way to and from work. Relatively speaking, I don't do much driving...fill my tank up maybe twice a month. So yeah, going back cost me like 25 cents. Am I still being ridiculous?Regardless of the above. I just like to be "square" on things I do in life. I just like paying for things that I receive. Yeah, I'm an idiot.

yes you are still being stupid. its their fault that they lost it anyway, not yours, you had nothing to do with it so just take it. you said it yourself, even they look at you like you are crazy, becuase you are.

[CaneBrain 95]

I'll tell you this right now people, i wouldnt use a program to cheat people out of money,But i would buy a lottery ticket if i knew what the numbers are going to be.Is there anyone here, (OP) who turns down 11.5 million?

I would do it if I just magically knew them somehow. If I had to hack into their system or something I would turn it down.I draw the line at intent. If someone just sends me money by accident....hey their fault not mine thanks a bunch. If I just magically happened upon the lotto numbers I would play.But I would not make one ounce of effort to defraud or steal from people. If money just happens to find its way to you....thats the rub of the green as they say.

[howdyo 0]

Bunch of hoodlums! If an old lady fell on the street and had a million in her purse, would you help her up and then rob her too? Seriously, how do y'all sleep at night? Doing this is flat out theft. Doing this makes you a two-bit criminal.

Hey newb,the old lady wouldn't rob me though. She will probably hand me a grand or so.The other fuckers at the poker tables are trying to take my money anyway, so whatever it takes to get their money...Don't be a Saint, you were a cheater too.

[JFinn08 0]

Again, I'm am elated at the way people offer up such insight into their character and their true level of understanding the game.Why is it that so many people in this community are so quick to point out how little the cards matter, how you have to play the man, not the cards, etc. would also be the first to jump on the chance to have the opportunity to see your opponents cards as the game developed.Have nono of you actually read any of the books that you so lovingly quote? Do you NOT understand all of the advanced math that is so easy to quote from a computer program? The level of knowledge about poker theory and concepts here is huge, but like so many children, its no more than a pattern of memorized Cliff Notes. And we wonder why this nations slides further into the abyss. Look at our future.If you really believe the poker analogies and theories you spew out so vehemntly, understand that your game play shouldn't really change, even if you could see your opponents cards, nor will the outcome. There will still be one outers that catch, and you will lose coinflips, regardless the fact that you can see cards. The only thing it will do for you "poker afficianados" is make you more upset when you lose, and make your game play that much weaker.Cheating is stealing. If you were victim to this scheme, your tune would change. Attitudes tlike the majority displayed here are disappointing, to say the least. At a time when poker can be brought to the forefront of legitimacy, it is sad that the reputation that tarnished the game is so alive and well among today's youth.DN: I liked your blog and the subsequent ripping of the WSOP for vanquishing so many games. Hold 'em is my least favorite form of poker (but my highest yeild ROI!!). I have been longing for a low limit mixed game OL since I started playing.

I was waiting for someone to bring this up. Very good post. The same people who sit on this site pretending to be winning players, lecturing people on the correct play, reciting HOH like they wrote the book, are the same people who say they will cheat. Kind of odd huh?And for those who say that the fact DN has a lot of money makes his view invalid ??? Cmon guys, are you serious?DN has money because he is a great business man who played poker FAIRLY. And he comes on HIS site to say pretty much that cheaters are the scum of the earth (which many of us agree). And some of you think you have the right to some his opinion is invalid?No real surprise here though. I think most of us know that FCP is unfortunately filled we these kinds of people.Im going to go puke now. Good Day.

[jtabletop 0]

When a hypothetical is stated, you're supposed to assume it is real, for the sake of argument. With your logic, the moment someone says, "let's say...", you would just say whatever first comes to mind, because it doesn't matter? If the question was, "would it be cool to be in Ocean's 11", then a lot would say yes. But to take part in it? No. In this case, assume the device is very real and you have access to it. You should go to jail if you did use it, because it's cheating. I agree no one should go to jail for thinking something...that was an over statement.

This is a poll based on a Tritz thread that we all bashed for days, and I am supposed to take it seriously? You are a funny man. :)It would have taken a lot more in the initial post for me to have even thought of taking it seriously. The original post would have had to a) not have had "????" in the title.B) been spellchecked.c) Laid out more ground about and storyline to it, instead of being a blatant Tritz reference.Even then, I'm not sure I would have taken it seriously any more than the question "Hypothetically, what would you do if you won the lattery?" Why, because I'm not winning the lottery any time soon, so there's no reason to give it serious consideration. Therefore, all that is left is the glib response of "I'd fly to tahiti!" or the ever popular "Two chicks.. at the same time." The same applies to this question. Its not happeneing, so I'm not going to give it a ton of serious consideration. I will give it some FUN consideration though, and my fun joking side thinks "Heck yeah! That would be Funny!" because it's not bothering to think of consequences of these actions. *shrug* Sure it stealing. Its also not going to ever happen for real, so who cares who thinks about doing it? Like I said before, I just felt it was a bit spoilsport for Dan (and others) to come in here ripping people for answering yes, when I think most of answered yes out of fun, not evil.Ray

Just to clarify this , I have no idea who tritz is and never saw any post if his that was on the same subject. Oh and do I need to be an english major to post? ? ? ? ? ?

[jtabletop 0]

I'll tell you this right now people, i wouldnt use a program to cheat people out of money,But i would buy a lottery ticket if i knew what the numbers are going to be.Is there anyone here, (OP) who turns down 11.5 million?

yes i turn down 11.5 million. it is not a matter of how much or how. it is all stealing!! whatever the price i still say no.