rookie2619 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Hellmuth hand tonight at WSOP where he calls a raise w/ A-K, flop 4-4-A. He was 1st to act & checked, opponent made a huge bet. Im a pretty aggressive player, I flop my hand that way I lead out & bet & see what my opponent does. I cant see myself laying that down like Hellmuth, who agrees? (Opponent had A-A) Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 he checked the flop his opponent checked behind, he then checked the turn also and his opponent bet Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 i was very impressed he didn't bust. i would have gone home there. also. phil was classic tonight, but i think what hurts his play most is his table image. he always looks like hes tiliting and get a bit to much action. (e.g. the aq vs the 7's) Link to post Share on other sites
Socrates 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 A queen came on the turn after the flop was checked - its not all that unbelievable that he put him on AQ. Link to post Share on other sites
KowboyKoop 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 A queen came on the turn after the flop was checked - its not all that unbelievable that he put him on AQ.he put him on Queens. It was a good laydown. However, this topic has been discussed much more in the "offical WSOP thread..." Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 "How many people in the WORLD could even lay that hand down there?" Hellmuth says afterwards atleast twice congratualting himself for his lay down....It was not THAT spectacular of a laydown in my opinion, (though he could have lost more money im sure) and that guy would have been much wiser to NOT show Helmuth his Aces...Only gave him a chance to suck his own co.ck and feel better about himself-P. Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I think I can lay that down there.Reraise preflop then checks the flop..... :!: :?: :!: :?: :!: :?: :!: :?: Then he's talking to Phil.....He might as well have said, "Phil, you better fold, because i flopped a monster" Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I woulda loved it 50 times as much if his opponent had nothing Link to post Share on other sites
lovedrunk 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 lol you all say u can lay that hand down. thats because you know the oponnent AA. if the topic was different like.. you have AK flop 4 4 A turn Qhow many of you can honestly fold that? Hellmuth was right, thats an awesome laydown. Link to post Share on other sites
rbakken2504 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 It was a great laydown, but think of it this way. It's day One of the WSOP, you know almost nobody at your table, your opponent re-raised you preflop, and is very comfortable when Phil is talking to him. So, from watching this same guy play the Queens so tightly against Hellmuth, i'd say he was a tight player and probably wouldnt reraise with anything but a big hand, and then makes a HUGE bet on the turn. I'd probably put him on a range of hands : AA, KK, QQ, AQ, 3 of these hands beat you,one doesnt. It was a great laydown, but considering it was day one of the WSOP, and the player, i'd have to say many good players would make that laydownNow, let's say the donk to Hellmuth's right makes that move, Hellmuth then probably goes bust, because that guy was just a loose cannon. The situation made it a lot easier for Hellmuth to make the fold, still a great fold tho. Link to post Share on other sites
TJ_Eckleburg 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Hmmmm.Defense exhibit A) Min-reraise preflop from an old guy. Old guys are either super-tight, super-loose, or good... and for a min-reraise preflop with aces I'm thinking weak/supertight.Second, he dark-checked the flop, not CHOSE to check the flop. In case you didn't notice, he dark-checked EVERY flop where he was out of position and heads up. I think it's because he was scared to play heads up out of position against unknowns in the World Series.Third... before we hand over every poker accolade ever made, if you've read Caro's book of tells AT ALL, the old dude lit up like a Christmas tree.He was blinking like crazy (release of tension), shrugged when he bet the turn, and acted noticeably nervous when Phil asked him questions (which he eagerly responded to, because PHIL HELLMUTH is talking to me!!!)Hellmuth put him on queens because it's the logical read given a) min reraise preflop, and b) the way that poor old guy was acting. If anything, Phil is LUCKY that queen fell off. If a 7 falls off, old dude gets paid and Hellmuth whines about "the cooler that always happens to me."I can think of 25 name pros I'd rather not sit with before I get to Hellmuth. If I'm EVER at a TV table with him I'm asking him how he feels as a poker player and as a man that he has to get his wife to calm him down... after 16 years of competitive poker. I"d ask him how his mom's doing, and then tell Phil I'd call her later.It wasn't THAT brilliant a read... but I'm sure he'd like the uneducated poker world to think it was. Maybe Phil Hellmuth should stop worrying about the BUSINESS of being Phil Hellmuth and win some poker tournaments.Also, the dude to his left in the red shirt absolutely PWNED Hellmuth on the first hand of Episode 3. The unknown played AK BEAUTIFULLY I thought, especially if he read the limp mutliway and then dark-check to mean a small pocket pair, which is somewhat logical. The dude also didn't say a word when Hellmuth tried to get a read on him. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmaster05 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 trust me, phil loses a LOT more if the guys leads out hard on the flop. Phil has to call, and i would think get his money in so QQ or KK or JJ don't hit the turn. He was fortunate it played out like it did. Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan_Sanders 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I go broke... not that good yet Link to post Share on other sites
Chiggleslap 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I'm so good I'm folding AK preflop vs. AA Link to post Share on other sites
Spademan 94 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 The dude was just SCREAMING strength when he bet the turn. The way he threw his chips out and made the statement like.. "well gee, I guess I'll bet a little bit, yuk yuk, I mean, I don't have much but... gosh, maybe I can steal it.It was a good laydown, but not great.AQ, QQ or AA was being written out in bold letters by that guys actions. Link to post Share on other sites
Pokur 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 The way they play sometimes is so stupid. Glad they busted. Phil is an idiot for berating that guy! It was his money so what that he caught a jack on the river! Makes me wonder how he ever wins tournaments. I did read his book Play "Poker like the Pros" his ego has turned himself into a bad player at times. Flame away! Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Hellmuth makes some great folds when he's crushed.He also makes some great folds when he's way ahead.good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Hellmuth makes some great folds when he's crushed.He also makes some great folds when he's way ahead.good luck.and you say this by what you've seen on t.v.? ha-hai thought you were better than that smashteneight Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 and you say this by what you've seen on t.v.? ha-hai thought you were better than that smashKind of tough to know when he's folding ahead if it's not on TV barring the sudden onset of psychic abilities.I'd explain further but I don't want to tax your allready overwordek brain which just had to deal with typing and now requires 12 or 13 hours of downtime.good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 smash, give me some great examples when you have actually seen phil fold when he is "way ahead"?i've heard of only very few hands since I only see the hands they show on TV. i've pretty sure you do toothere was a hand a LONGGGG time ago where he folded QQ vs 77 preflop, which he wrote about in his site.other than that, please amuse me how you get ahold of such great information about someone you don't know personally? do you watch every single hand he plays? sorry, i'm sure you don'tyour comment was just your opinion with no facts to back it up. i'm not saying you are wrong, but i'm sure he folds more times when he is behind than ahead in a very critical situation because he is a pretty good player :wink: good luck Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 I'd explain further but I don't want to tax your allready overwordek brain which just had to deal with typing and now requires 12 or 13 hours of downtimeseems to me you are the one overworked with the typos....please don't make a comeback with a mom joke, or any other lame joke. just answer my question ::the post above:: Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 your comment was just your opinion with no facts to back it up. i'm not saying you are wrong, but i'm sure he folds more times when he is behind than ahead in a very critical situation You're sure?Do you watch every hand he plays? Surely not.Don't hurt yourself, now. You're allready a Raiders fan. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 seems to me you are the one overworked with the typos.I'm dyslexic.You could make fun of me for having a diability, but it really wouldn't be fair considering I don't bring up you being functionally retarded.good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
kouta43 0 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 seems to me you are the one overworked with the typos.I'm dyslexic.You could make fun of me for having a diability, but it really wouldn't be fair considering I don't bring up you being functionally retarded.good luck.or mentioning he is an immature dickhead.been busy smash- have not seen you posting much recently. Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 your comment was just your opinion with no facts to back it up. i'm not saying you are wrong, but i'm sure he folds more times when he is behind than ahead in a very critical situation You're sure?Do you watch every hand he plays? Surely not..same thing I said about your first comment. please, come up with a better answer than that. you are clearing ignoring my question.Hellmuth makes some great folds when he's crushed. He also makes some great folds when he's way ahead. good luck.this comment is totally wrong since you don't watch every hand he plays, only the ones you see on t.v.thank you Link to post Share on other sites
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