Party $1k PLO8 drawing hand.

[Wintermute 0]

2nd hand at the table, no reads.$1000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo Seat 2 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 6: Villain1 ( $917.63 )Seat 1: Villain2 ( $404.87 )Seat 5: Folder ( $1003 )Seat 10: Folder ( $1054 )Seat 2: Folder ( $1081 )Seat 3: Hero ( $990 )Seat 4: BB ( $767 )Seat 7: Folder ( $1000 )Seat 9: Folder ( $1000 )Hero posts small blind [$5].Villain3 posts big blind [$10].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Hero [ Js Ah 7h Tc ]Folder folds.Villain1 calls [$10].Folder folds.Villain2 calls [$10].Folder folds.Hero calls [$5].BB checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Th, 9h ]Hero checks.BB checks.Villain1 bets [$38].Villain2 calls [$38].Hero ?

[Sluggo 0]

Fold preflop.Fold flop.good luck.

[Petoria 0]

Fold preflop.Fold flop.good luck.

Explain why he has to fold the flop, he's got a draw to the nuts and two pair, with only one low card on the board. I also dont see the big problem with calling $5 with any hand, and hope to get lucky. I may be wrong, but could you please explain your reasoning.

[Wintermute 0]

Fold preflop.Fold flop.good luck.

This post is too rich with content for me to process.

[Smasharoo 0]

Surprised you didn't lead the flop here.No reads, I just call.good luck.

[Socko669 0]

I call all day here.

[Jelly-Filled Ace 2]

Pot it up and see who wants to play if that's your style.Hard to accept a 1000.00 PLO player doesn't have a handle on everyones playing style even if it is early entry. I know you 2+2 guys take pride in knowledge. I'm just saying.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I think your only real options are to call or to pot it (folding is just plain silly).I'm still learning, so I would like to see some valid points about whether it is better to jsut call here, with two opponents, OR to pot it here, trying to hittle the field AND building a bigger pot with a good hand. :?

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I agree with Smash, call.If you are way behind, your hand is then still a drawing hand and you want to make it cheap.If you are way ahead, by calling you will induce you villains' to commit more money.If you are neither way ahead nor way behind, you still want to keep it cheap since you were out of position.Potting is powerful and feels good, but use it at the right times for the right reasons.

[Wintermute 0]

Potting is powerful and feels good, but use it at the right times for the right reasons.

Great observation; I definitely suffer from playing overly aggressive in some situations because of this.Anyway, I actually raised, figuring that there was a good chance I could get the big stack to fold, leaving me heads up against the smaller stack, against which I definitely have odds to get committed. Also, I decided that if the big stack came along, then not only do I have the cards that make my hand, but also I have potential bluffing outs if the board brings a higher straight (so I'm representing the str w/ str redraws). If I had happened to get all-in against either or both on the flop, then I figure I may be a slight dog but am getting the odds to make it EV-neutral at worst, barring a real disaster like top set + str. The turn brought the higher str bluff card, and so I potted it virtually all-in. Does this seem totally out of line? $1000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo Seat 2 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 6: Villain1 ( $917.63 )Seat 1: Villain2 ( $404.87 )Seat 5: Folder ( $1003 )Seat 10: Folder ( $1054 )Seat 2: Folder ( $1081 )Seat 3: Hero ( $990 )Seat 4: BB ( $767 )Seat 7: Folder ( $1000 )Seat 9: Folder ( $1000 )Hero posts small blind [$5].Villain3 posts big blind [$10].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Hero [ Js Ah 7h Tc ]Folder folds.Villain1 calls [$10].Folder folds.Villain2 calls [$10].Folder folds.Hero calls [$5].BB checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Th, 9h ]Hero checks.Villain3 checks.Villain1 bets [$38].Villain2 calls [$38].Hero raises [$190].Villain3 folds.Villain1 calls [$152].Villain2 calls [$152].** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]Hero bets [$607].

[Wintermute 0]

Hard to accept a 1000.00 PLO player doesn't have a handle on everyones playing style even if it is early entry. I know you 2+2 guys take pride in knowledge. I'm just saying.

Since the skins demise a week ago, there are many new aliases popping up as regulars migrate back to Party from the skins. As a result, there are many unfamiliar names--the players in this hand were unknown to me.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

The turn brought the higher str bluff card, and so I potted it virtually all-in. Does this seem totally out of line? I think so, what do you think one of your villains called you with? It's a bluff card for you, it's a safe card for them to get committed.

[mk 11]

wow, that's a ballsy turn play. another great example of why position rules.what are villains calling your flop raise with that they're willing to fold here? is it reasonable to put either of them on 68xx or J8xx? i don't think so. a set might get scared away by such a connected board... i suppose there might be some merit to it, but i think it's pretty berserko.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I didn't read the board clearly, I withdrew my comments.

[Vman96 0]

I have a bad feeling one of the villains holds QJ at this point....but at least Wintermute still has up to 13 outs. I don't think I would have been the aggressor with that card showing up though....what else would they be drawing to? (other than a weaker flush)

[Wintermute 0]

I have a bad feeling one of the villains holds QJ at this point....but at least Wintermute still has up to 13 outs. I don't think I would have been the aggressor with that card showing up though....what else would they be drawing to? (other than a weaker flush)

Good call. Villain1 did indeed have 8JQ. So my bluff failed. However, I luckily sucked out the flush. Thanks to raising on the flop, my turn bet was actually substantially +EV, despite being nearly a 2:1 dog. However, I am not thrilled with my play on the hand at all. Thanks for comments.$1000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo Seat 2 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 6: Villain1 ( $917.63 ) Seat 1: Villain2 ( $404.87 ) Seat 5: Folder ( $1003 ) Seat 10: Folder ( $1054 ) Seat 2: Folder ( $1081 ) Seat 3: Hero ( $990 ) Seat 4: BB ( $767 ) Seat 7: Folder ( $1000 ) Seat 9: Folder ( $1000 ) Hero posts small blind [$5]. Villain3 posts big blind [$10]. ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to Hero [ Js Ah 7h Tc ] Folder folds. Villain1 calls [$10]. Folder folds. Villain2 calls [$10]. Folder folds. Hero calls [$5]. BB checks. ** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, Th, 9h ] Hero checks. Villain3 checks. Villain1 bets [$38]. Villain2 calls [$38]. Hero raises [$190]. Villain3 folds. Villain1 calls [$152]. Villain2 calls [$152]. ** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ] Hero bets [$607].Villian1 is all-In [$717.63]Villain2 is all-In [$204.87]Hero calls [$110.63].** Dealing River ** [ 4h ]Hero shows [ Js, Ah, 7h, Tc ] a flush, ace high. Villain1 doesn't show [ Ts, 8c, Qc, Jd ] a straight, nine to king.Villian2 doesn't show [ 3s, Ad, Kh, 3c ] a pair of kings. Hero wins $1025.52 from side pot #1 with a flush, ace high. Hero wins $1221.61 from the main pot with a flush, ace high. There was no qualifying low hand.Flop odds:Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing 7c Th 9hcards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EVJs Tc Ah 7h 265 331 328 7 0 0 0 0.453Ts Qc 8c Jd 238 316 343 7 0 0 0 0.4213s 3c Ad Kh 12 12 654 0 144 0 0 0.126Turn odds:Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 36 enumerated boards containing 7c Kd Th 9hcards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EVJs Tc Ah 7h 13 13 23 0 0 0 0 0.361Ts Qc 8c Jd 23 23 13 0 0 0 0 0.6393s 3c Ad Kh 0 0 36 0 0 0 0 0.000

[akishore 0]

LOLOLOL @ villian 2.he called $38 then $152 on the flop with a runner-runner A-3 low draw and a pair of threes for high with runner-runner gutshot broadway as his only high redraw.then he called $607 with just a pair of kings and absolutely no redraw.beautiful!aseem

[Wintermute 0]

then he called $607 with just a pair of kings and absolutely no redraw.

Actually he only called $200 (shortstacked). But it should've been pretty easy to save that $200.

[strategy 4]

This has probably been beat to death and I apologize in advance for any riots and/or looting that may occur, but...Why are you here? I like your posts and people keep calling you a 2+2 guy. For as looked down upon as FCP seems to be, what makes you spend a little time here?Thanks for the post. I would not have had the balls to pot the turn like you did. I think it's mostly because I have only played low limit PLO8, where you can reasonably assume you will get called nearly 100% of the time.

[Wintermute 0]

This has probably been beat to death and I apologize in advance for any riots and/or looting that may occur, but...Why are you here? I like your posts and people keep calling you a 2+2 guy. For as looked down upon as FCP seems to be, what makes you spend a little time here?

I think I mentioned this somewhere previously in the past few days, but I suspect my general strategy in this game tends a little to much towards aggression. I figure if I post some of my LAG-style hands and (1) accept some criticism from folks I know see things differently and (2) try to defend my line of reasoning, I'll be able to learn a lot. I've never had issue with the general mindset of this forum--you can't take the comments of all 2+2'ers and assume I agree, just as I can't take the tight-weak (as I perceive) strategy of some FCP'ers and assume everyone prescribes to that school of thought.

Thanks for the post. I would not have had the balls to pot the turn like you did. I think it's mostly because I have only played low limit PLO8, where you can reasonably assume you will get called nearly 100% of the time.

I knew I'd at least get called by the shortstack after he called the flop, but there was good reason to expect he had very little (probably less than my two pair) since he didn't shove on the flop. The best was designed to push the bigger stack out, who I figured had good reason to fold if he did not have JQ. Even if he calls, too, I knew I had at least the flush outs, and maybe some boat outs as well.