folding k-k preflop

[ShieldWolf 0]

Joined: 28 Jun 2005Posts: 18Location: Philadelphia folding k-k preflop Thu, Oct 13th, 2005 4:12 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It doesn't happen often, but I'm sure anyone who has been playing poker for a decent amount of time has come across that situation where they are holding K-K and have that feeling they are up against A-A. Anyone have a situation where they let go of K-K in NL holdem (cash or tourney) because they felt they were beaten? I have folded K-K twice in preflop situations. Both were tournaments: --Blinds were 30-60. I am in the SB with KsKh. First two players fold. Next player raises to 200. Player to his left raises to 400. Next player re-raises all-in for about another 1100 on top. Dealer button calls his last 800 chips or so. I really believed I was beaten here, and only had 30 of my own chips in the pot, so I let it go. Player who originally raised folds as well. Player who had raised to 400 calls. Starting from the earliest posistion, here were their hands: AhAc QcQd Ad10d --Blinds are 10-20. I am second to act. UTG folds. I raise it to 75 with KcKs. Next 3 players fold. Next player re-raises to 200. Folds to the dealer. Dealer re-raises all in for 1550 total. SB folds. BB calls all of his chips (just under 1400). I really felt one of them was sitting on AA and told myself to lay it down. The player who raised it 200 calls, leaving him with less than 100 chips. Starting from the earliest posistion, here were their hands: JsJh AcJc AsKd Obviously wasn't too proud of the second one. The second one was about four months ago. I haven't laid down KK preflop since then, though have run into AA three times with it. Anyone else have a KK folding story, or a story where they felt they were up against AA but couldn't lay it down?

[Smasharoo 0]

Suckers like to fold KK preflop.They're right about 1 time in 20.good luck.

[Petoria 0]

Well I've folded them once in a NL cash game, and was right, I guess I was just lucky Smash. I'd say that 1 in 20 estimate is extremely high, maybe 2 of 7 would be closer for knowledgeable.When the action goes:I raise MP1,min. reraise from button, standard sized rereraise from SB, I call, button moves all in, SB moves all in. I'm usually inclined to fold, but that's just me.

[jayistheman 0]

i have a hard time folding most hands getting that kind of price... especially a hand that very well could be ahead.

[jack24bauer24 0]

I've folded KK 7 times in my NL life, and luckily i've been 7 for 7 so far that they have had aces. Its not all that hard to do if the situation is correct.

[ShieldWolf 0]

Suckers like to fold KK preflop.They're right about 1 time in 20.good luck.

Your response makes it seem like my post said I fold K-K preflop on a regular basis when facing a raise. I have folded it twice out of about 300 times. I don't think many people would consider that too out of the ordinary.

[HtotheNootch 0]

I'm not good enough to fold KK preflop and neither are you

[Pokerghost2 0]

i cant bring myself to do it.

[Petoria 0]

Suckers like to fold KK preflop.They're right about 1 time in 20.good luck.

Your response makes it seem like my post said I fold K-K preflop on a regular basis when facing a raise. I have folded it twice out of about 300 times. I don't think many people would consider that too out of the ordinary.

Shield meet Smash. If you plan on posting here get used to responses like that.

[loxo 0]

I'm not good enough to fold KK preflop and neither are you

Good Point!

[dms26 3]

Suckers like to fold KK preflop.They're right about 1 time in 20.good luck.

Your response makes it seem like my post said I fold K-K preflop on a regular basis when facing a raise. I have folded it twice out of about 300 times. I don't think many people would consider that too out of the ordinary.

That is just his standard answer, he usually has a good point though.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Suckers like to fold KK preflop.They're right about 1 time in 20.good luck.

This answer makes sense about 1 in 20 times.coincidence? i think not

[Actuary 3]

I folded QQ twice so far. Never KK.Does that count?

[oldirtyharry 0]

Done it twice, all within the last 16 weeks on the 50nl tables. First time dude in early position makes a small raise, which is quickly followed by an all in from someone else in early/mid position. Had a great read soI let them go. originally raiser called so I got to see that i was indeed up against AA. Second time was similar, however i raised 8xbb in early position and the guy behind me went all in for about $80. Folds to me and I let them go, and although I didn't see his cards I was happy with my lay down...Basically, if I have a great read on a player I usually have a decent idea if there reraise allin is legit or not. Almost always these players will only reraise allin with QQ,KK,AA. If I'm holding KK it is in these instances I may choose to let it go. AA has you beat, and the solid/rock players I am referring to don't do it nearly often enough with QQ or anything else to warrant a call. Its all about having a great read, and that situation doesn't happen often. Maybe once every 20,000 hands. Basically; No read:call, Bad read:call, average read:call, good read:call, great read:fold

[Smasharoo 0]

Yeah, me and Harrington are wrong, you suckers are right.Um, I'll take me and Dan and lay the points for $1000 thanks.Suckers.Learn limit allready.

[princeof56k 0]

To the people advocating that folding KK is OK if you have a good read on a Rock and AA is the only hand they would go all in with, have you ever thought of:1. A smart Rock might know that you have been watching him for the last 10 hours and uses his table image to make this move with a low pocket pair of any 2 face cards hoping that you will fold (and if you call he might have outs and likely to get action later when he does have AA).2. People are completely unpredictable and do things random things completely out of their usual routine for no reason what so ever.

[jayistheman 0]

I folded QQ twice so far. Never KK.Does that count?

nope

[Pupsta 0]

i've never folded kk preflop in my life.i almost did the other day, early in a tourney, when a guy went allin preflop with blinds 15/30. decided, oh well, i'll pay off aces.instead, queens paid me off.not only did harrington say that, but if i'm not mistaken, young phan in an issue of cardplayer said "i'll never fold kings preflop...if they run into aces, it wasn't my tourney to win"i'll stand by them instead of foolishly folding KK.

[offset 0]

If you're opponent is capable of laying down qq preflop then you can think about laying down kk in some situations. Otherwise you need a mounstrous read of a very weak opponent.

[jayistheman 0]

If you're opponent is capable of laying down qq preflop then you can think about laying down kk in some situations. Otherwise you need a mounstrous read of a very weak opponent.

kk > qqright?KK is never a race... its way ahead of all hands but one.QQ is way ahead of all hands but 3... and its crushed by 2 of them. all 3 are also very common holdings of people who have moved in.

[offset 0]

If you're opponent is capable of laying down qq preflop then you can think about laying down kk in some situations. Otherwise you need a mounstrous read of a very weak opponent.

kk > qqright?KK is never a race... its way ahead of all hands but one.QQ is way ahead of all hands but 3... and its crushed by 2 of them. all 3 are also very common holdings of people who have moved in.

what? Maybe i wasn't clear. I meant if you're opponent would have already folded qq then he has kk or aa (duh) and you should fold (also duh, but i'm just saying there are times to fold kk). I didn't mean that you should fold because he would fold qq to you're raise. lol

[Petoria 0]

If you're opponent is capable of laying down qq preflop then you can think about laying down kk in some situations. Otherwise you need a mounstrous read of a very weak opponent.

kk > qqright?KK is never a race... its way ahead of all hands but one.QQ is way ahead of all hands but 3... and its crushed by 2 of them. all 3 are also very common holdings of people who have moved in.

what? Maybe i wasn't clear. I meant if you're opponent would have already folded qq then he has kk or aa (duh) and you should fold (also duh, but i'm just saying there are times to fold kk). I didn't mean that you should fold because he would fold qq to you're raise. lol

I'm lost

[offset 0]

Lol. iff you're opponent is capable of laying down qq pf then their are times when ytou should fold kk.If he cannot possibly have anything but kk or aa and there and you look down at kk you should fold. thats all i'm saying.

[oldirtyharry 0]

Yeah, me and Harrington are wrong, you suckers are right.Um, I'll take me and Dan and lay the points for $1000 thanks.Suckers.Learn limit allready.

I was assuming we were talking about NL. Also, Harrington's books deal with NL tournaments not ring games. Not sure if thats what you're referring to. Regardless, I'm sure a lot of pros have laid down KK pre flop, in fact I remember reading about Lederer laying them down, although that was in a tournament. 

[Petoria 0]

Lol. iff you're opponent is capable of laying down qq pf then their are times when ytou should fold kk.If he cannot possibly have anything but kk or aa and there and you look down at kk you should fold. thats all i'm saying.

Still exceedingly confused. So what you're saying is, if your opponent can only have AA or KK based on how the hand was played, then you should fold KK. Ummm.....ok, I guess that's the basis of the whole discussion. Obviously we're not folding KK unless we're almost 100% certain that our opponent has AA.You lost me when you talked about him folding QQ. That doesnt make any sense to me.