why the royals suck

[thrope 0]

i have no idea why we signed a first basemen, we have like 18 in the farm systemi guess this mean sweeney will fulltime DH though

[kers2 0]

i have no idea why we signed a first basemen, we have like 18 in the farm systemi guess this mean sweeney will fulltime DH though

Or they will just trade him/let him go like every other decent player they have brought up

[Hobbes 1]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002. He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003. Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman. He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings. They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

[TheIceman05 0]

Anybody wanna run 5 bucks a win, Tigers vs. Royals? I'll give you that bet, Koop.I think it'll be close. The Royals will end up about 15 games under, and the Tigers will finish about 5 under.Ice

[TheIceman05 0]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002.  He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003.  Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman.  He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings.  They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

He's a career .290 hitter, I think. This is off the top of my head. He's an above average hitting second-baseman, for sure. Do you see the dogs some teams put on there? I'd kill to have my second baseman get on base 32-34 percent of the time (and I bet his range is right in there)Ice

[KowboyKoop 0]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002.  He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003.  Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman.  He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings.  They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

Noone is saying Mientkiewicz is a "great" player. He is a MUCH better defensive 1B than Sweeney or Stairs. Thus, he is an improvement.Grudzielanek is a CAREER .287 hitter and his last THREE years have been .314, .307, and .294. But yeah, you're right, that's pretty "below average." Good one. Funny how the Cardinals seemed to think he was a great 2B last year, a key part of their team (my family is from St. Louis and I have been to a TON of Cardinal games...ugh.), yet now that he signed with us, he all of a sudden "sucks." Yeah, okay.Also, the Royals signing a picther who can eat up 180 innings with a 4.60 to 4.80 E.R.A. is a BIG improvement for us. Since we signed TWO so far, that is A LOT better than we have done the past few years, so I'll take it. (Earlton and Redman).Also, Jacque Jones will be a fairly solid player for us next year too.Like I have said ALLLL along, we'll be about a .500 team next year, just wait and see.....

[KowboyKoop 0]

i have no idea why we signed a first basemen, we have like 18 in the farm systemi guess this mean sweeney will fulltime DH though

Or they will just trade him/let him go like every other decent player they have brought up

Please tell me all the players who we have done this with. I'll start you offBeltran DyeDamonSuppan (he was an ATROCIOUS pitcher for us...think Jose Lima...)?????at least for Beltran, who was leaving regardless of what we offered him, we got Buck and Teahen, who are both going to be pretty solid players next year. Also, Emil Brown had a better year than Beltran did last year for MUCHHHHHHH less..

[Hobbes 1]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002.  He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003.  Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman.  He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings.  They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

Noone is saying Mientkiewicz is a "great" player. He is a MUCH better defensive 1B than Sweeney or Stairs. Thus, he is an improvement.Grudzielanek is a CAREER .287 hitter and his last THREE years have been .314, .307, and .294. But yeah, you're right, that's pretty "below average." Good one. Funny how the Cardinals seemed to think he was a great 2B last year, a key part of their team (my family is from St. Louis and I have been to a TON of Cardinal games...ugh.), yet now that he signed with us, he all of a sudden "sucks." Yeah, okay.Also, the Royals signing a picther who can eat up 180 innings with a 4.60 to 4.80 E.R.A. is a BIG improvement for us. Since we signed TWO so far, that is A LOT better than we have done the past few years, so I'll take it. (Earlton and Redman).Also, Jacque Jones will be a fairly solid player for us next year too.Like I have said ALLLL along, we'll be about a .500 team next year, just wait and see.....

Because batting average is a meaningful way to judge a hitter. :roll: I'm not a Cardinals fan and have no biases towards Grudz, so that argument has no weight with me.Here's the problem with the free agent signings: these players won't make them a contender. They might be improvements over the players from last year (it would be hard not to be), but that doesn't automatically make them good signings. Free agency is the worst way to build a team and the Royals need to build a team, not just add a few pieces.

[Hobbes 1]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002.  He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003.  Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman.  He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings.  They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

He's a career .290 hitter, I think. This is off the top of my head. He's an above average hitting second-baseman, for sure. Do you see the dogs some teams put on there? I'd kill to have my second baseman get on base 32-34 percent of the time (and I bet his range is right in there)Ice

He had an OBP of .334 last year, which was good for 12th out of all NL 2nd basemen.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Mientkiewicz hasn't been an above average fielder since 2002.  He hasn't been an above average hitter since 2003.  Grudzielanek has only in the past few years worked his way up to being an average 2nd baseman.  He is also still a below average hitter.These are not good signings.  They will do nothing to help the Royals contend.

Noone is saying Mientkiewicz is a "great" player. He is a MUCH better defensive 1B than Sweeney or Stairs. Thus, he is an improvement.Grudzielanek is a CAREER .287 hitter and his last THREE years have been .314, .307, and .294. But yeah, you're right, that's pretty "below average." Good one. Funny how the Cardinals seemed to think he was a great 2B last year, a key part of their team (my family is from St. Louis and I have been to a TON of Cardinal games...ugh.), yet now that he signed with us, he all of a sudden "sucks." Yeah, okay.Also, the Royals signing a picther who can eat up 180 innings with a 4.60 to 4.80 E.R.A. is a BIG improvement for us. Since we signed TWO so far, that is A LOT better than we have done the past few years, so I'll take it. (Earlton and Redman).Also, Jacque Jones will be a fairly solid player for us next year too.Like I have said ALLLL along, we'll be about a .500 team next year, just wait and see.....

Because batting average is a meaningful way to judge a hitter. :roll: I'm not a Cardinals fan and have no biases towards Grudz, so that argument has no weight with me.Here's the problem with the free agent signings: these players won't make them a contender. They might be improvements over the players from last year (it would be hard not to be), but that doesn't automatically make them good signings. Free agency is the worst way to build a team and the Royals need to build a team, not just add a few pieces.

EXCUSE ME!?!?!? A. Batting average is a pretty good way to judge a hitter...not the ONLY way, but pretty solid. Also, please look up his stats compared to our 2B's last year......seriouslyB. Please tell me where I said we would be a playoff contender next year. Please show me that. You won't find it. Please tell me what we should have done with 20 million dollars in spending money for next year and with NO big name free agents wanting to come to KC b/c of our past couple year's results. Who would you have signed.?!?!?!?Our goal coming into this offseason was to not give away any of our core "youth group" players while adding a few veteran pieces. We haven't given up ONE significant "young core player" while acquiring some fairly solid players:Players gained: Paul Bako (backup catcher for next year)Adam Bernero (RHP, probably go to minors)Elmer Dessens (RHP-career 4.40 ERA, possible starting candidate)Scott Earlton (RHP-starting pitcher, pretty solid year last year, only 29 years old)Esteban German (INF-probably be our utility infielder, 27 years old)Mark Grudzielanek (2b-.287 career hitter, last three years has been pretty good AND has a lot of good experience being on a winning team)Bobby Madritsch (LHP--probably start in the minors)Doug Mientkiewicz (1B-will be out starting 1B, is a very good defensive player, average hitter, but still a solid Major League player)Joel Peralta (RHP-probably a bullpen guy, decent ERA last year (3.89 in 28 games...))Mark Redman (LHP-will be a starter, an innings eater for us, and a decent ERA)Joe McEwing (INF-utility player, might be traded/released.....)Players lost:Johan Bayliss (Pitcher-about our 20th best arm in our farm system......)Chad Blackwell (Pitcher-know nothing about this player)D.J. Carrasco (Pitcher-good at times for us last year, but awfully inconsistent and injury prone.._Jaime Cerda (Pitcher -WHO?)Nate Field (pitcher-SUCKS)as you can see, not ONE of our "core players" have been taken away. We still have Affeldt, D. Bautista, Ambiorix Burgos, Jimmy Gobble, Zach Grienke, Runelvys Hernandez, J.P. Howell, Mike MacDougal, Leo Nunez, Andrew Sisco, and Kyle Snyder....who are all good young arms with potential...we still have our young starting catcher John Buck, SS Angel Berroa, Andres Blanco, Ruben Gotay, justin Huber, Mike Sweeney (not young, but good), and 3b Mark Teahen. and David DeJesus and Emil Brown and Shane Costa and Matt Diaz......you CANNOT tell me that we have had a bad offseason. We have gained two starting pitchers, a starting 1B, a starting 2b, a backup catcher, and a couple bullpen arms, who will ALL be BIG improvements over what we had, and for all of that, we lost NOT ONE significant player. Our "youth movement" is helped by all of that b/c instead of rushing up players from the minors who aren't ready, we can let them develop at the right pace. Noone is saying we are going to be a contender for a playoff spot. We won't be. But we can be about a .500 team, in my opinion, and that would be a VAST improvement for us and a BIG step in the right direction. We have a TON of good young prospects in our system, players such as Alex Gordon and Billy Butler, to name a couple, and we will only be getting better every year.....don't try to say these are "bad signings" and will do "nothing" for our team just because you just blindly think EVERYTHING the Royals do is bad......Also, we will be signing Jacque Jones in the next week or so...so that will be a bit of an upgrade as well.

[Hobbes 1]

EXCUSE ME!?!?!?  A. Batting average is a pretty good way to judge a hitter...not the ONLY way, but pretty solid. Also, please look up his stats compared to our 2B's last year......seriouslyB. Please tell me where I said we would be a playoff contender next year. Please show me that. You won't find it. Please tell me what we should have done with 20 million dollars in spending money for next year and with NO big name free agents wanting to come to KC b/c of our past couple year's results. Who would you have signed.?!?!?!?Our goal coming into this offseason was to not give away any of our core "youth group" players while adding a few veteran pieces. We haven't given up ONE significant "young core player" while acquiring some fairly solid players:Players gained:  Paul Bako (backup catcher for next year)Adam Bernero (RHP, probably go to minors)Elmer Dessens (RHP-career 4.40 ERA, possible starting candidate)Scott Earlton (RHP-starting pitcher, pretty solid year last year, only 29 years old)Esteban German (INF-probably be our utility infielder, 27 years old)Mark Grudzielanek (2b-.287 career hitter, last three years has been pretty good AND has a lot of good experience being on a winning team)Bobby Madritsch (LHP--probably start in the minors)Doug Mientkiewicz (1B-will be out starting 1B, is a very good defensive player, average hitter, but still a solid Major League player)Joel Peralta (RHP-probably a bullpen guy, decent ERA last year (3.89 in 28 games...))Mark Redman (LHP-will be a starter, an innings eater for us, and a decent ERA)Joe McEwing (INF-utility player, might be traded/released.....)Players lost:Johan Bayliss (Pitcher-about our 20th best arm in our farm system......)Chad Blackwell (Pitcher-know nothing about this player)D.J. Carrasco (Pitcher-good at times for us last year, but awfully inconsistent and injury prone.._Jaime Cerda (Pitcher -WHO?)Nate Field (pitcher-SUCKS)as you can see, not ONE of our "core players" have been taken away. We still have Affeldt, D. Bautista, Ambiorix Burgos, Jimmy Gobble, Zach Grienke, Runelvys Hernandez, J.P. Howell, Mike MacDougal, Leo Nunez, Andrew Sisco, and Kyle Snyder....who are all good young arms with potential...we still have our young starting catcher John Buck, SS Angel Berroa, Andres Blanco, Ruben Gotay, justin Huber, Mike Sweeney (not young, but good), and 3b Mark Teahen. and David DeJesus and Emil Brown and Shane Costa and Matt Diaz......you CANNOT tell me that we have had a bad offseason. We have gained two starting pitchers, a starting 1B, a starting 2b, a backup catcher, and a couple bullpen arms, who will ALL be BIG improvements over what we had, and for all of that, we lost NOT ONE significant player. Our "youth movement" is helped by all of that b/c instead of rushing up players from the minors who aren't ready, we can let them develop at the right pace. Noone is saying we are going to be a contender for a playoff spot. We won't be. But we can be about a .500 team, in my opinion, and that would be a VAST improvement for us and a BIG step in the right direction. We have a TON of good young prospects in our system, players such as Alex Gordon and Billy Butler, to name a couple, and we will only be getting better every year.....don't try to say these are "bad signings" and will do "nothing" for our team just because you just blindly think EVERYTHING the Royals do is bad......Also, we will be signing Jacque Jones in the next week or so...so that will be a bit of an upgrade as well.

A. No, it's really not. If Player A hits .325, you would think he's a really good hitter. But what if he never walks and only hits singles? So his OBP is something like .335 and his slugging is .350. This is a player who is not helping his team offensively. I'll take a player like Adam Dunn who hits only .240, but has an OBP of .390 and a slugging percentage of .550. He is a vastly superior offensive player to Player A. So, no, batting average is not a good way to judge a player.I have no inclination to look up Royals 2nd basemen because it is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. I already admitted that these signings would probably be an upgrade on what they had, but that is not the only reason to sign a player. B. I never said that you said they would be a contender. Now, who would I have signed this off-season if I was the Royals GM? Nobody. My point about being a contender is that the Royals are at least a few years away from that and their moves should reflect that. Signing veteran players in free agency does not do that. The Royals have no incentive to increase their payroll other than trying to look like they're doing something. If their goal in the offseason was to add a few veteran pieces, then I guess they accomplished that goal. However, that is a misguided goal at best.Signing veteran free agents to move up to .500 accomplishes nothing. The goal of every organization should be the World Series, not .500. If you have to endure a few years of .400 ball to build to .600 then so be it. Being stuck in a perpetual wasteland of .475 to .515 isn't doing anything for you.If you don't want to rush up your prospects, then just don't rush them. Put in a couple place-fillers, the minor leagues are filled with guys that can do the job for league minimum. You don't need overpriced veterans to do that.The Royals are actually one of those teams that I pull for when they're not playing my teams. This is because I enjoyed reading "Rob & Rany on the Royals" and got sucked in. I don't blindly think everything they do is bad; I have given you reasons why I think these particular moves are bad.And Mientkewicz is not a "very good defensive player." He is an average defensive player who has the reputation of being very good. But like I said, he hasn't been above average since 2002.

[gkunit20 1]

I really like your new avatar.

[gkunit20 1]

BUMP

[KowboyKoop 0]

EXCUSE ME!?!?!?  A. Batting average is a pretty good way to judge a hitter...not the ONLY way, but pretty solid. Also, please look up his stats compared to our 2B's last year......seriouslyB. Please tell me where I said we would be a playoff contender next year. Please show me that. You won't find it. Please tell me what we should have done with 20 million dollars in spending money for next year and with NO big name free agents wanting to come to KC b/c of our past couple year's results. Who would you have signed.?!?!?!?Our goal coming into this offseason was to not give away any of our core "youth group" players while adding a few veteran pieces. We haven't given up ONE significant "young core player" while acquiring some fairly solid players:Players gained:  Paul Bako (backup catcher for next year)Adam Bernero (RHP, probably go to minors)Elmer Dessens (RHP-career 4.40 ERA, possible starting candidate)Scott Earlton (RHP-starting pitcher, pretty solid year last year, only 29 years old)Esteban German (INF-probably be our utility infielder, 27 years old)Mark Grudzielanek (2b-.287 career hitter, last three years has been pretty good AND has a lot of good experience being on a winning team)Bobby Madritsch (LHP--probably start in the minors)Doug Mientkiewicz (1B-will be out starting 1B, is a very good defensive player, average hitter, but still a solid Major League player)Joel Peralta (RHP-probably a bullpen guy, decent ERA last year (3.89 in 28 games...))Mark Redman (LHP-will be a starter, an innings eater for us, and a decent ERA)Joe McEwing (INF-utility player, might be traded/released.....)Players lost:Johan Bayliss (Pitcher-about our 20th best arm in our farm system......)Chad Blackwell (Pitcher-know nothing about this player)D.J. Carrasco (Pitcher-good at times for us last year, but awfully inconsistent and injury prone.._Jaime Cerda (Pitcher -WHO?)Nate Field (pitcher-SUCKS)as you can see, not ONE of our "core players" have been taken away. We still have Affeldt, D. Bautista, Ambiorix Burgos, Jimmy Gobble, Zach Grienke, Runelvys Hernandez, J.P. Howell, Mike MacDougal, Leo Nunez, Andrew Sisco, and Kyle Snyder....who are all good young arms with potential...we still have our young starting catcher John Buck, SS Angel Berroa, Andres Blanco, Ruben Gotay, justin Huber, Mike Sweeney (not young, but good), and 3b Mark Teahen. and David DeJesus and Emil Brown and Shane Costa and Matt Diaz......you CANNOT tell me that we have had a bad offseason. We have gained two starting pitchers, a starting 1B, a starting 2b, a backup catcher, and a couple bullpen arms, who will ALL be BIG improvements over what we had, and for all of that, we lost NOT ONE significant player. Our "youth movement" is helped by all of that b/c instead of rushing up players from the minors who aren't ready, we can let them develop at the right pace. Noone is saying we are going to be a contender for a playoff spot. We won't be. But we can be about a .500 team, in my opinion, and that would be a VAST improvement for us and a BIG step in the right direction. We have a TON of good young prospects in our system, players such as Alex Gordon and Billy Butler, to name a couple, and we will only be getting better every year.....don't try to say these are "bad signings" and will do "nothing" for our team just because you just blindly think EVERYTHING the Royals do is bad......Also, we will be signing Jacque Jones in the next week or so...so that will be a bit of an upgrade as well.

A. No, it's really not. If Player A hits .325, you would think he's a really good hitter. But what if he never walks and only hits singles? So his OBP is something like .335 and his slugging is .350. This is a player who is not helping his team offensively. I'll take a player like Adam Dunn who hits only .240, but has an OBP of .390 and a slugging percentage of .550. He is a vastly superior offensive player to Player A. So, no, batting average is not a good way to judge a player.I have no inclination to look up Royals 2nd basemen because it is completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. I already admitted that these signings would probably be an upgrade on what they had, but that is not the only reason to sign a player. I said it is ONE way. Not the ONLY way. Noone said he Grudz was a great hitter. We said he is an "above-average 2B." And TRUST ME, he is a MVP candidate compared to our 2B's of the last few years...Ruben Gotay, Donnie Murphy, Andres Blanco, and Carlos Febles.....yeah, that's what I thought.B. I never said that you said they would be a contender. Now, who would I have signed this off-season if I was the Royals GM? Nobody. My point about being a contender is that the Royals are at least a few years away from that and their moves should reflect that. Signing veteran players in free agency does not do that. The Royals have no incentive to increase their payroll other than trying to look like they're doing something. If their goal in the offseason was to add a few veteran pieces, then I guess they accomplished that goal. However, that is a misguided goal at best.DO YOU EVEN FOLLOW THE ROYALS!!!?!? DO YOU EVEN FOLLOW BASEBALL!?!?!? Not being a player in the FA market and trying to make trades is the reason the Royals are criticized so much. SIGN NOBODY!!??!?! EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE TRIES TO IMPROVE THEIR TEAM THROUGH FREE AGENCY AND THE TRADE MARKET, EVERY SINGLE YEAR!?!?! DO NOTHING!??! Truse me, if that happened, Allard Baird would be fired and fans would simply not come to the games and we'd eventually end up without a team at all. Yeah, the Royals are maybe a few years from being a "playoff contender." But simply sitting and watching young players "develop" is not the only option. You honestly think EVERY SINGLE PROSPECT we have is going to develop into a solid MLB player??? No way. Thus, you HAVE to bring in other pieces to fit into the puzzle. That is essential baseball knowledge. Now, you would be correct to criticize us IF we had traded a bunch of our good prospects for these "average-to-good" veterans. However, as I already pointed out, we DID NOT LOSE ONE SINGLE GOOD PROSPECT/PLAYER from our organization. NOT ONE!!! We improved our team AND kept our youth movement going. You say our team needs to let the young players develop?? THAT is exactly what is going to happen. Some of them will still be in the Big Leagues, and others will be developing in the minors.You are acting like we signed a bunch of over the hill players and traded away a bunch of young, hot prospects. That is not the case at all. All of them got one year deals, except for Earlton, who is 29. None of them are really old at all, Grudz is 35, and that's it for our signings for the year. We lost NO good players, we gained ALOT of potential starters...I can't see what is "wrong" with that.Signing veteran free agents to move up to .500 accomplishes nothing. The goal of every organization should be the World Series, not .500. If you have to endure a few years of .400 ball to build to .600 then so be it. Being stuck in a perpetual wasteland of .475 to .515 isn't doing anything for you.We are not signing these players to "get to .500 and stop." Sure, we want to win the World Series this year, but that is probably not going to happen. IF, however, we can put together a better team for next year, maybe more fans will show up, maybe the owner will have more money to spend on better free agents/trades for next year, and maybe, just maybe, those primetime players will actually want to come to K.C. again. For example, we contacted Rafeal Furcal about possibily signing him, and his agent just flat out said he wouldn't even listen to us. He isn't the only big player to feel that way, and that won't change until we start playing competitive baseball this year, which is what we are trying to do next year. And by signing some solid veterans AND keeping out ENTIRE core group of young and talented players, we will be better next year and will continue to get better after that.If you don't want to rush up your prospects, then just don't rush them. Put in a couple place-fillers, the minor leagues are filled with guys that can do the job for league minimum. You don't need overpriced veterans to do that.We are FORCED to rush prospects. Bringing up a bunch of minor league players instead just to "fill the gaps" would be the stupidest thing of all time, and we'd probably win literally 23 games....do you think we would be able to resign ANY of our prospects once they are eligible for free agency once that happens?????The Royals are actually one of those teams that I pull for when they're not playing my teams. This is because I enjoyed reading "Rob & Rany on the Royals" and got sucked in. I don't blindly think everything they do is bad; I have given you reasons why I think these particular moves are bad.Who is your team?And Mientkewicz is not a "very good defensive player." He is an average defensive player who has the reputation of being very good. But like I said, he hasn't been above average since 2002.I'm not gonna argue with you on this point, I have watched him play A TON when he was on the Twins against the Royals, and he was the best 1B I had seen. Also, he seems to be a pretty good defensive 1B according to...well...pretty much everybody in baseball, so I'll go with them over some guy from Portland who thinks young teams should never sign free agents.....idiot.Maybe the last couple of years he has dropped off a bit, sure, but he's also been injured quite a bit. Do I expect him to be a savior?? No. Do I expect him to be better than Matt Stairs?!?! Easily.

Your thoughts that KC should just sit back and "wait" for their young players to become a playoff team is just flat out retarded. No team in the history of baseball (the modern era, with FA and all that...) will EVER do this. No, our ultimate goal is NOT just to be .500. Of course, we would ultimately like to win the World Series. But to sit back and say "well, we won't win the World Series this year, so let's just not sign anybody, sit back, and let a bunch of minor leaguers play for the next four years and watch as we lost 130 games every single year...." is just dumb. It is CLEAR that you don't really keep up with baseball much, despite what you will respond with about how you "really know your baseball..."

[KowboyKoop 0]

HEY, HOBBES, DID YOU SEE THAT THE PITTSBURGH PIRATES HAVE ACQUIRED SEAN CASEY, ROBERTO HERNANDEZ, AND DAMASO MARTE!?!?! OMG, DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES NEXT YEAR!?!?! HAHAHA, WHAT IDIOTS THEY ARE, DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD DO NOTHING AND SHOULD JUST "WAIT" FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO ALL OF A SUDDEN TURN INTO A PLAYOFF TEAM??? OH MAN, HOW DUMB CAN YOU GET!!!!

[princeof56k 0]

Scott Earlton (RHP-starting pitcher, pretty solid year last year, only 29 years old)

Some info on Elarton. He aint that good. He's had that "He's only X years old" label since he was drafted out of high school by the Astros. He has a power pitchers body, but ends up throwing a bunch of offspeed crap with a funky delivery.His numbers were better the last couple of years because he left the Rockies (He's from Colorado). A 4.50 ERA is about the best you can expect out of that guy. He's a 4th guy in the rotation at best.I actually think the Royals overpaid for this guy. A rookie out of the minors would just as well. Trust me, everytime you see him go out there you'll say, "He looks like he better than this. When he finds his rhythm, he's gonna be awsome." Eventually you realize he has no rhythm and that's all he has.

[KowboyKoop 0]

Scott Earlton (RHP-starting pitcher, pretty solid year last year, only 29 years old)

Some info on Elarton. He aint that good. He's had that "He's only X years old" label since he was drafted out of high school by the Astros. He has a power pitchers body, but ends up throwing a bunch of offspeed crap with a funky delivery.His numbers were better the last couple of years because he left the Rockies (He's from Colorado). A 4.50 ERA is about the best you can expect out of that guy. He's a 4th guy in the rotation at best.I actually think the Royals overpaid for this guy. A rookie out of the minors would just as well. Trust me, everytime you see him go out there you'll say, "He looks like he better than this. When he finds his rhythm, he's gonna be awsome." Eventually you realize he has no rhythm and that's all he has.

Hey, I ain't trying to make the case that he is a "great" pitcher who is going to be some kind of savior for us. But PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go look up Jose Lima's stats, and you will see why I think this guy is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over that...and yes, we did overpay, but that is just the nature of the market, EVERYONE is overpaying for pretty much everybody. And...well...no, a "rookie from the minors" won't do just as good, but yes, I know you are exaggerating a bit.Also, to be honest, if he pitched the entire year and had a 4.50 ERA, I'd be pretty happy.

[MDXS 0]

Hey Hobbes, thanks for saving me from having to go on a batting average rant. If I remember correctly isn't Bill James from Kansas City? You'd think they wouldn't be thirty years behind the times there...

[thrope 0]

i'm gonna have to actually agree with koop on this one. these are all average major league baseball players, and that in itself is an upgrade from alot of the players the royals had last year. koop, never ever ever ever spell elarton 'earlton' again, i just read you do it in 18 straight posts and its making me cry. as far as rob and rany on the royals, they would find a way to spin the royals signing satchel paige, babe ruth, joe dimaggio, and a young bo jackson into bad news. another issue people are forgetting is that the royals are trying to get KC to vote for a tax increase to either A) upgrade kauffman or B) build a new stadium. putting every 20 year old prospect we have out on the field and going 30-132 isn't an option.

[princeof56k 0]

I was kind of exagerrating about "a guy in the minors doing just as well," but not by that much. Would Elarton actually do better than a rookie? Probably. Would he be so much better than a rookie to justify that salary? No.I personally dont like going out and getting a free agent, paying him big money, and getting a 4th/5th rotation guy. In order win and get over .500 you need at least 3 strong starters. Elarton is not that type of pitcher. Trust me, I followed him through the minors and then in the majors when he played for Houston. He just never fulfilled his so called potential.The Houston Astros seemed to have figured this out to some extent. There 4th/5th starters are usually some young guy that came from the farm system or some aging veteran. The reason being is that when the budget is tight, you dont pay high dollar for mediocrity (which is what the Royals did with Elarton). This strategy has ended up hurting the Astros in playoffs, but at least they're making the playoffs.The smart thing to do is to take the bad with a rookie in the bottom of the rotation and use the money on an impact pitcher. If Elarton is the best you can get, then keep shopping (or at least negotiate a lower price).I will give KC credit though. At least they didnt sign him to a long term contract.

[Hobbes 1]

HEY, HOBBES, DID YOU SEE THAT THE PITTSBURGH PIRATES HAVE ACQUIRED SEAN CASEY, ROBERTO HERNANDEZ, AND DAMASO MARTE!?!?! OMG, DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES NEXT YEAR!?!?! HAHAHA,  WHAT IDIOTS THEY ARE, DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD DO NOTHING AND SHOULD JUST "WAIT" FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO ALL OF A SUDDEN TURN INTO A PLAYOFF TEAM??? OH MAN, HOW DUMB CAN YOU GET!!!!

Let me get this one first, then I'll get to your longer post.Are you trying to say that because the Pittsburgh Pirates did something similar to what the Royals did, that somehow justifies the Royals' signings? When did the Pirates become the model franchise? And yes, these are bad moves by the Pirates.

[KowboyKoop 0]

HEY, HOBBES, DID YOU SEE THAT THE PITTSBURGH PIRATES HAVE ACQUIRED SEAN CASEY, ROBERTO HERNANDEZ, AND DAMASO MARTE!?!?! OMG, DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES NEXT YEAR!?!?! HAHAHA,  WHAT IDIOTS THEY ARE, DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD DO NOTHING AND SHOULD JUST "WAIT" FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO ALL OF A SUDDEN TURN INTO A PLAYOFF TEAM??? OH MAN, HOW DUMB CAN YOU GET!!!!

Let me get this one first, then I'll get to your longer post.Are you trying to say that because the Pittsburgh Pirates did something similar to what the Royals did, that somehow justifies the Royals' signings? When did the Pirates become the model franchise? And yes, these are bad moves by the Pirates.

so basically, your theory is that EVERY SINGLE BAD TEAM should sign ZERO free agents and should NOT try to trade for ANY players, and instead should just sit back and hope that EVERY prospect they have turns into a good player. That is flat out the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

[Hobbes 1]

Please stop comparing Grudz to the other Royals 2nd basemen.  I said from the beginning that he is an upgrade to that position.  That is not my point.  Please pay attention.  [/b]DO YOU EVEN FOLLOW THE ROYALS!!!?!? DO YOU EVEN FOLLOW BASEBALL!?!?!?  Yes and yes.  More so than poker.  You know all the people around here that read everything they can about poker?  That's me and baseball.Not being a player in the FA market and trying to make trades is the reason the Royals are criticized so much. SIGN NOBODY!!??!?! EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE TRIES TO IMPROVE THEIR TEAM THROUGH FREE AGENCY AND THE TRADE MARKET, EVERY SINGLE YEAR!?!?! DO NOTHING!??! Truse me, if that happened, Allard Baird would be fired and fans would simply not come to the games and we'd eventually end up without a team at all.  I never said don't make trades, I said the free agent market is the worst place to build a team.  Again, please pay attention.  And as a preemptive strike, please note that I am saying free agency is a bad way to build a team.  If you are one or two players away from contending, then signing a free agent can be a very good thing.Yeah, the Royals are maybe a few years from being a "playoff contender." But simply sitting and watching young players "develop" is not the only option. You honestly think EVERY SINGLE PROSPECT we have is going to develop into a solid MLB player??? No way. Thus, you HAVE to bring in other pieces to fit into the puzzle. That is essential baseball knowledge.  Did I say that all of their prospects will become solid MLB players?  Koop, you always harp on other people here when they misquote you or falsely attribute ideas/thoughts to you and yet you are doing the same thing with me.  When you have a bad team that is not close to contending, you need to develop a good farm system.  Then you need to figure out which of those players will help your next contending team.  The Royals have a lot of good, young hitters in their system; in a couple years they could have a top offense.  They do need help on the pitching side.  Now, think about this, let's say in three years their young hitters have developed and a couple pitchers come around.  So, they go out and sign a free agent pitcher to bolster their rotation.  Now their team is looking good.  The question is, how do Minky and Grudz fit into this?  Three years down the road their skills will have eroded further and they will have no role in this contending Royals team.  So what point did they serve?  Why was that money well spent?  They didn't help the Royals become a contender.  That is why they aren't good signings.Now, you would be correct to criticize us IF we had traded a bunch of our good prospects for these "average-to-good" veterans. However, as I already pointed out, we DID NOT LOSE ONE SINGLE GOOD PROSPECT/PLAYER from our organization. NOT ONE!!! We improved our team AND kept our youth movement going. You say our team needs to let the young players develop?? THAT is exactly what is going to happen. Some of them will still be in the Big Leagues, and others will be developing in the minors.But you didn't improve your team to the point of contending, so it is a waste of money.You are acting like we signed a bunch of over the hill players and traded away a bunch of young, hot prospects. That is not the case at all. All of them got one year deals, except for Earlton, who is 29. None of them are really old at all, Grudz is 35, and that's it for our signings for the year. We lost NO good players, we gained ALOT of potential starters...I can't see what is "wrong" with that.What is wrong with that is that it's a waste of money.We are not signing these players to "get to .500 and stop." Sure, we want to win the World Series this year, but that is probably not going to happen. IF, however, we can put together a better team for next year, maybe more fans will show up, maybe the owner will have more money to spend on better free agents/trades for next year, and maybe, just maybe, those primetime players will actually want to come to K.C. again.  Studies have shown that improving to .500 has no impact on fan attendance.  Especially with teams that have been bad for a long time, it takes a playoff appearance to get the fans to show up the following year.  And even then the team must continue to play well or the fans will go away again.For example, we contacted Rafeal Furcal about possibily signing him, and his agent just flat out said he wouldn't even listen to us. He isn't the only big player to feel that way, and that won't change until we start playing competitive baseball this year, which is what we are trying to do next year. And by signing some solid veterans AND keeping out ENTIRE core group of young and talented players, we will be better next year and will continue to get better after that.Minky and Grudz will not make them competitive.  They will have no impact on how the young players improve.We are FORCED to rush prospects. Bringing up a bunch of minor league players instead just to "fill the gaps" would be the stupidest thing of all time, and we'd probably win literally 23 games....do you think we would be able to resign ANY of our prospects once they are eligible for free agency once that happens?????Do you honestly think that bringing in a "AAAA" first and second baseman would be such a disaster compared to Minky and Grudz?  I never said bring in an entire team of minor leaguers; I said use some cheaper, freely available talent for 1st and 2nd base.  The Royals shouldn't have yanked Calvin Pickering around so much and they would've had a suitable stop-gap player at first.Who is your team?I lived half of my life in LA and half in the Bay Area.  I only recently moved to Portland.  I am a Dodgers fan in the NL and an A's fan in the AL.I'm not gonna argue with you on this point, I have watched him play A TON when he was on the Twins against the Royals, and he was the best 1B I had seen. Also, he seems to be a pretty good defensive 1B according to...well...pretty much everybody in baseball, so I'll go with them over some guy from Portland who thinks young teams should never sign free agents.....idiot.Maybe the last couple of years he has dropped off a bit, sure, but he's also been injured quite a bit. Do I expect him to be a savior?? No. Do I expect him to be better than Matt Stairs?!?! Easily.So why are you arguing then?  He is considered a pretty good devensive first baseman by the talking heads and mass media that don't really know baseball.  Have you seen some of the Gold Glove winners?  It's a joke.  There are plenty of people who understand that he is overrated at first, people who spend countless hours analyzing defense.Your thoughts that KC should just sit back and "wait" for their young players to become a playoff team is just flat out retarded. No team in the history of baseball (the modern era, with FA and all that...) will EVER do this. No, our ultimate goal is NOT just to be .500. Of course, we would ultimately like to win the World Series. But to sit back and say "well, we won't win the World Series this year, so let's just not sign anybody, sit back, and let a bunch of minor leaguers play for the next four years and watch as we lost 130 games every single year...." is just dumb. It is CLEAR that you don't really keep up with baseball much, despite what you will respond with about how you "really know your baseball..."This just goes to show you don't really know the history of baseball that well.  If you want to rely on your opinion that I don't keep up with baseball as a way of discounting my arguments, then that's your choice.  It would be better if you actually consider what I'm saying and think about it.  I don't know how much you follow baseball, but that is irrelevant to me because I am arguing with what you are saying, not with what I think you might know.

[Hobbes 1]

HEY, HOBBES, DID YOU SEE THAT THE PITTSBURGH PIRATES HAVE ACQUIRED SEAN CASEY, ROBERTO HERNANDEZ, AND DAMASO MARTE!?!?! OMG, DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES NEXT YEAR!?!?! HAHAHA,  WHAT IDIOTS THEY ARE, DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEY SHOULD DO NOTHING AND SHOULD JUST "WAIT" FOR THEIR PLAYERS TO ALL OF A SUDDEN TURN INTO A PLAYOFF TEAM??? OH MAN, HOW DUMB CAN YOU GET!!!!

Let me get this one first, then I'll get to your longer post.Are you trying to say that because the Pittsburgh Pirates did something similar to what the Royals did, that somehow justifies the Royals' signings? When did the Pirates become the model franchise? And yes, these are bad moves by the Pirates.

so basically, your theory is that EVERY SINGLE BAD TEAM should sign ZERO free agents and should NOT try to trade for ANY players, and instead should just sit back and hope that EVERY prospect they have turns into a good player. That is flat out the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Show me where I said every single bad team should not try to trade for any players. Also show me where I said that any team should have any kind of expectation that every prospect turns into a good player. Are you just trying to make me look dumb by arguing with things I never said?

[KowboyKoop 0]

i'm gonna have to actually agree with koop on this one. these are all average major league baseball players, and that in itself is an upgrade from alot of the players the royals had last year. koop, never ever ever ever spell elarton 'earlton' again, i just read you do it in 18 straight posts and its making me cry. as far as rob and rany on the royals, they would find a way to spin the royals signing satchel paige, babe ruth, joe dimaggio, and a young bo jackson into bad news.  another issue people are forgetting is that the royals are trying to get KC to vote for a tax increase to either A) upgrade kauffman or B) build a new stadium. putting every 20 year old prospect we have out on the field and going 30-132 isn't an option.

My bad on "elarton." I don't know him that well and for whatever reason, I just keep seeing "earlton" when I read his name. My mistake. Also, thank you for agreeing with me, good to know that I'm not the ONLY person in the world who thinks trying to IMPROVE your team is a good idea. Again, it isn't like I'm saying these are the all time greatest signings ever...but they improve our team while at the same time allowing our young players to continue to develop. And I would argue that a lot of our young players are really not that far away from being very solid MLB players, especially our bullpen, which was actually fairly solid last year....and with guys like DeJesus, Buck, Teahen, who continue to get better, I think out team can win 75+ games next year, hopefully close to .500, which would be a MAJOR step in the right direction for next year.Sitting back and just "waiting" for every young player to "get good" is just retarded and flat-out not how baseball works.Also, your last point is very good as well.