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im so down in spirits i dont know...


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why just call the 25 on the flop? Why not raise him at least the pot since it is possible he already has two pairs and he could hit the boat on the turn? Just calling with the nut is inviting him to hit his card. Raising him is telling him you got top pair beat.

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I understand that this is a bad beat but i cant keep playing if this might happen. This was the worst beat i ever took in a live game.. maybe thatts why it hurts soooo much. Also that was like my 6th or 7th time at a B&M
It might happen?.....It WILL happenBankroll management is a lot more than being able to still pay bills after losing your buy-in. Its about being prepared to come back after losing a chunk, especially at NL. The trouble here is that your bankroll didn't give yourself a chance to get your money back. 6 or 7 times at a B&M? Were you playing NL the other times too? You certianly would have gotten stung before if you put in very many hours at NL.--Blink
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if losing $200 means that much to you then you shouldn't be playing in hands that could cost you $200.
this is the most salient point in the thread, if losing $200 makes him want to committ suicide, he has a serious problem ..
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I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions.. it really made me feel alot better. Its nice that i can be a part of a forum that helps out other players when their down.It hurt so much cause i lost it in 3 hands.... and your right i should of stayed in the game because if he plays king 3 off like that i probably would of got it back... but i was too distraught. Once again i thank you all for helping me out.

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i do 2 things different in that spot. first, i go out of my way to tell that guy how "he couldnt have played it any different". then i rebuy for another 200 and forget it. that game sounds to big for ur money.

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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
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Its not actually that im playing above my bankroll, i said to myself that if i play tight that ill win money. I flopped the nut straight.So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
this is a tough call. you are beat here by a flush or a full house or quads. i might call the 45 here and see what the bet is on the river, or fold (after all you've only played 3 hands and can find better spots to make money in the game)
If i raise then i might chase him away... and i dont want to do that with my nut stright right?
the point of raising is to make people who have draws pay to hit their hands. you have to ask yourself, "should i raise and make this flush draw pay for his draw? or should i call and let him hit it cheap?"
No flush. sorry, please play again.
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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
Exactly what I was thinking -- if you just call, you have no idea where he stands. You have to raise him to see how serious he is about this hand, and it has to be a substantial raise to not give him the odds to draw out his hand.. I dunno, you say you don't want to push b/c you're new to the game and don't have a feel for anybody -- I say you don't want to slowplay a monster when you sit first sit down, for the same reason. You're more at risk doing what you did. Tough luck though, it's hard not to get upset immediately after losing like this, but you'll bounce back.
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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
Exactly what I was thinking -- if you just call, you have no idea where he stands. You have to raise him to see how serious he is about this hand, and it has to be a substantial raise to not give him the odds to draw out his hand.. I dunno, you say you don't want to push b/c you're new to the game and don't have a feel for anybody -- I say you don't want to slowplay a monster when you sit first sit down, for the same reason. You're more at risk doing what you did. Tough luck though, it's hard not to get upset immediately after losing like this, but you'll bounce back.
So, you love polar bears also?
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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
Exactly what I was thinking -- if you just call, you have no idea where he stands. You have to raise him to see how serious he is about this hand, and it has to be a substantial raise to not give him the odds to draw out his hand.. I dunno, you say you don't want to push b/c you're new to the game and don't have a feel for anybody -- I say you don't want to slowplay a monster when you sit first sit down, for the same reason. You're more at risk doing what you did. Tough luck though, it's hard not to get upset immediately after losing like this, but you'll bounce back.
Guinevar was talking about the turn- he has already made the mistake of slowplaying the flop, now he has got to think about what the other guy has- since it is a loose game moving him off of his 2 pair at this point is not going to happen. The question is this- you flopped the straight. Why are you getting cute with no reads on anyone? Just do the smash method here and push the flop- asian guy probably calls anyway and the same thing happens, but at least you would have played it aggressive as possible, which never hurts on a flop like that, especially when someone else has raised.
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Guinevar was talking about the turn- he has already made the mistake of slowplaying the flop, now he has got to think about what the other guy has- since it is a loose game moving him off of his 2 pair at this point is not going to happen.
my mistake, must've misread.
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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
You are probably very bad at NL, but I am glad you like polar bears, too. I was talking about the turn action, that was the question I quoted. If he's going to call on the turn he's going to call on the river. The only hand you want to push the turn with is a flush draw with no pair, and the villain bet the flop, so he probably wasn't doing that with a backdoor flush draw. Because the only reason to move in is to push a deep stacked player off a non-paired flush draw, it makes pushing on the turn a stupid move for reasons previously listed.Rar.
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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
What? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!No offense to you Guinevar, but isn't it the point of poker to push the edge when you know you're ahead? It's an incredibly weak play to just call and hope that a scare card doesn't come.P.S. I love polar bears.
You are probably very bad at NL, but I am glad you like polar bears, too. I was talking about the turn action, that was the question I quoted. If he's going to call on the turn he's going to call on the river. The only hand you want to push the turn with is a flush draw with no pair, and the villain bet the flop, so he probably wasn't doing that with a backdoor flush draw. Because the only reason to move in is to push a deep stacked player off a non-paired flush draw, it makes pushing on the turn a stupid move for reasons previously listed.Rar.
If you move in on the turn knowing he has the top pair and is drawing to only four outs, are you not creating a +EV situation for yourself when he calls you?
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Rar.
If you move in on the turn knowing he has the top pair and is drawing to only four outs, are you not creating a +EV situation for yourself when he calls you?
Of course this situation is +EV. However, like I said there is a 9-29% chance villain is going to suck out on you. It is +EV, but it is not the best move in this instance. The only thing we fold is a non-paired flush draw against an unknown but likely loose 1-2 NL player. Wait till the river to see how to continue. It is still likely you'll be able to get the rest of your stack in when villain fires another bullet on the river. Whether or not you think he got his flush is up to you. Really, what it is, is getting the best of it without possibility of suckout. The board has paired and you hold the nut straight. Pushing is not the play of winners. What if the villain had KJ? You've just pushed your whole stack in drawing stone dead. This is similar to the hand where Kurt was outdrawn on the river by...was it Alan Boston?
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Rar.
If you move in on the turn knowing he has the top pair and is drawing to only four outs, are you not creating a +EV situation for yourself when he calls you?
Of course this situation is +EV. However, like I said there is a 9-29% chance villain is going to suck out on you. It is +EV, but it is not the best move in this instance. The only thing we fold is a non-paired flush draw against an unknown but likely loose 1-2 NL player. Wait till the river to see how to continue. It is still likely you'll be able to get the rest of your stack in when villain fires another bullet on the river. Whether or not you think he got his flush is up to you. Really, what it is, is getting the best of it without possibility of suckout. The board has paired and you hold the nut straight. Pushing is not the play of winners. What if the villain had KJ? You've just pushed your whole stack in drawing stone dead. This is similar to the hand where Kurt was outdrawn on the river by...was it Alan Boston?
So, in this instance, there are four cards that can come on the river to beat you legitimately, but there are 13 more that can beat you potentially if he makes a substantial bet when one of them falls on the river (9 to complete the potential flushd draw + 2 queens). Assuming he is going to lead again regardless of what comes you will be faced with a very tough decision almost 1/3 of the time. I think it is very important to define your hand on the turn. I'm not saying necessarily to move in, but you should be able to determine where you are much more effectively with a raise.
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Why not go all in on the flop? He didnt look like he was going to fold regardless... he waited just 5 sec before calling my all in bet. And the asain guy folded on the flop he just laughed as the other guy turned over King 3 off

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So when the jack came on the turn what should of I have done; folded after the 45 dollar bet?
Obviously you should have called. Pushing there against an unknown but probably loose 1-2 B&M player is not a very good play. Obviously you know he has two pair. If he has the jack he has eight outs that beat you. If he has either the king or queen he has six outs that beat you. If he had something like :spadesk: :spades3: then he has the six outs to get the boat (2 kings, 3 queens, and one jack) but he also then has nine outs to the flush. Giving him the possibility of 15 outs with. Basically, your opponent has between 9.09% and 29.55% to suck out on your nut straight.It is much smarter to call the turn bet, thinking you probably are not going to push an unknown off the hand (you have also now revealed he was deep stacked) and then extracted as much as you can should the board not continue to get scary.
so he rivers a queen....kings and queens with a jack kicker beats a straight? is that you jfarrell?
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Why not go all in on the flop? He didnt look like he was going to fold regardless... he waited just 5 sec before calling my all in bet. And the asain guy folded on the flop he just laughed as the other guy turned over King 3 off
Pushing the flop would have been fine.
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I knew he didnt have king jack. Even if it was the 3rd hand. I cant beleive you people think that CALLING the turn bet is a good play. Pushing on the flop would of probably be too obvious... the turn i think he felt that i was trying to quickly double up.

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