Bubba83 0 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 SB is 25.5% VP$IP 1.1% PFR 0.45% AF including preflop and flop (although turn AF is 1.2 and river AF is 2.0) after 90 hands.Ultimate Bet 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6:diamond:, 6:heart:. 1 fold, Hero calls.Flop: (5 SB) Q:spade:, 6:spade:, 7:club: (2 players)SB bets, Hero calls.Turn: (3.50 BB) 7:heart: (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets, Hero calls.River: (11.50 BB) 6:club: (2 players)SB bets, SB calls.Final Pot: 19.50 BBRaise the flop? Thinking here was call and let him lead into us on the turn again so we could raise when the betting limits double.This player has obviously rarely come into a pot raising preflop, and he has raised preflop this hand. My pupil was playing in this hand and not me, I instrcuted him to 3 bet the turn, at the time I didn't realize SB had raised out of the SB preflop and had those kind of pokertracker stats. I was kinda busy surfing the web and whatnot at the beginning of this hand. Anyways, now that I see how the hand went from preflop 'til the end, I'm wondering if 3 betting the turn was correct or not. I know we have a very strong hand but my question is, what could he have raised preflop, then check raised the turn with? I don't think this player would have done this with AA KK or AQ (I don't even think he'd raise preflop with AQ) but i'm not sure. This is also my first time analyzing players with PokerTracker so help me out! Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Definitely 3 bet the turn. Sure in this case you might have been behind but I think he'd make this play with AA, KK or AQ as well as QQ. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Eventhough he raised from the SB, you were the only one to enter the pot (and you limped). There's alot of stuff he could be raising there. He probably raised to get heads up and planned on betting out regardless of the flop. Maybe he has A7 and caught a third seven on the turn. You have a boat. You gotta 3bet on that turn. My pupil was playing in this hand and not me, I instrcuted him to 3 bet the turnBTW, this cracked me up. I have no idea why. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 If you look at his stats I don't think he's raising any hands besides premium ones, He has raised exactly one other time preflop in 90 hands, and this was a tight table, so I am certain situations where he was in the pot with only one other guy had occured like this before in which he had not raised preflop. He wasn't the type of player who was going to be aggressive preflop just to get heads up. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I understand what you're saying, but 90 hands is still a small sample size. I've been cold decked for way more hands than that. Have you ever played with this guy before?And even if he is as tight as you say, then the ONLY hand he would do this with that we need to worry about is QQ. I think its worth the risk of a 3bet to say he is not on that exact hand. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Showing the action after the 3-bet is going to make for biased anwsers if others anwser this, might want to get rid of that since the capped turn and river is the only thing that would ever make me think you were behind here. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 are you fearing QQ?That's the only hand that fits your tight discription.Yes, 3-bet the turn.you have pupil? Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 I'm just teaching 2 friends how to play that want to play poker for money to supplement their income. So I'll open up a chat with them and they ask me questions while they're in hands before they act if the play isnt obvious. Maybe I shouldn't have posted the river actions. I think it probably was right to 3 bet the turn, as we could only be worried about QQ. However, I think it's weird this player check raised the turn, even if I have him on KK or AA, It's weird to want to check raise if the 7 pairs the board. I could have a flush draw and take a free card off with his turn check, or I could have a 7 and 3 bet him here instead of just 2 betting if he had led into me. I guess his turn check raise just made me really suspicious, as it seems he's letting draws have a free card with KK, AA, and AQ, and getting 3 bet when I have a 7. Link to post Share on other sites
custom36 5 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 you have pupil?I have 2. Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 i really hope the villian showed the queens otherwise he way over played the hand... Link to post Share on other sites
KappaKid83 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I think 3-betting here is solid, although he hasnt raised much preflop, he also hasnt given up on a hand yet, thats based on my loose grasp of Turn and River AF, please correct me if I am wrong as I am still grasping all of PT. So yeah I thought the hand was well played and definitely got paid the full amount for your hand. BYW I am hardly ever, maybe 2% of the time, folding a boat on the turn there, and barely ever am I slowing down, thats just me though.JEFF Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 tell SB and his A7 to shove itby 3-betting, vnh Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 Argh, there is no way he had A 7. Anyway, he showed Q Q and was mad about it. I don't think this player check raises the turn with any hand but QQ, but maybe I am being too restrictive in what he could have. The check raise play just makes no sense with AA KK or AQ, he pays 3 bets when i actually do have the 7, and I get a free draw to a flush or straight if I have either of those draws. If he just bets out on the turn (he had the lead preflop and on the flop) then he only pays 2 bets when i have the 7, and he makes me pay 1 bet with a flush or straight draw.Does anyone else see huge warning signs on the turn? It seems by using the check raise play here he is saying, hey, i don't care if you get a free draw buddy, and I don't care if you 3 bet me either. Am I mentally disabled? Living in the past? Screech?Side thought: When you guys post the last number in your a/b/c, what is c? The entire avg of his AF on preflop/flop/turn/river? or what? Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Raise this flop.Given his tight pfr%, he likely has AA-QQ, and maybe AKs. You will get lots of action from AA and KK here.On the turn, you should still 3-bet. He could c/r with an overpair here. If he caps, just call the river UI. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 Wow raise the flop, that makes a lot of sense now. Like I said earlier my thoughts were to have him bet into us again and raise when the limits increased. But you're right with the small selection of hands I think he could have, and all of those holdings being so strong, I would probably get a ton of action by raising the flop, and it wouldnt hurt my action on the turn. I like it. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Now that we know the villian had QQ, I dont like the villians play of going for the check/raise on the turn. He doesnt know you turned a boat. In his mind he is either up against a flush/straight draw, someone with a 7, 6, Q, or a pocket pair.If you have a 7 and he leads out, you will probably raise him and then he gets a chance to 3bet.A 6 probably isnt going to bet anyways. Maybe a 6 calls a bet, but probably not. But he has to bet, just in case a 6 will call.Someone with a Q (or a pocket pair) might bet if he checks, but he might be looking for a cheap showdown and check behind. However a Q probably does call a lead turn and river bet. Making betting more profitableThe check is real bad if you are one the flush draw(or straightdraw). A flush draw likely calls his lead bet, and then hopefully rasies him on the river if the flush hits. Since he checks, he runs a big risk of it getting checked around. So he makes a lot less money if a straight or flush draw is out there. He was very fortunate that you turned a boat and gave him the action he wanted.Thats why his super-sneaky turn check/raise make me think he doesnt have QQ. Its just not a smart play there. I'm much more likely to think a player might try that with AA/KK or if he himself had a 7. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 I think a bette post is :Should I raise the river? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now