hand from tonight oct 9th

[PoppinFresh 0]

10 players left, im in 10th place with 40,700 before posting the big blind. Blinds are 2000/4000 with a 200 ante. I get Kh10d in the big blind. Folded to the buttonwho has 66445 in chips and raises it to 14,000. He's a pretty conservative player to be honest, but we're playing 5-handed with high blinds, he's not stupid enough to get blinded down while waiting for monsters. Anyway I decide to pull a stop and go, so I call his raise.Flop: 3h 4h 6sI go all-in. I'm getting a bit of flack for this play(you can probably guess the result lol), but I thought it was a good one. For the record, I"m playing for first, I don't want to sneak into the final table for a slightly better payout. The only reason I think it may have been a bad play is because I wasn't sure I had enough left to push him out on the flop, if he had made the standard 12,000 raise instead of 14,000 I would have liked this play a lot more. Is anyone actually going to fold to the flop push or will they see through my play and auto-call?I like to play quite aggressively late in MTT'--I feel like most players are too passive and the blinds are worth so much, but I don't know if I'm taking it too far and just being a donk. Help!

[Rocketwadster 0]

If your opponent had any pair higher than tens (IMO) he would have called you. If your opponent had ace king he probably would have called you. I wouldn't have called that pre-flop raise. I would have folded (90% of the time) or gone all-in right there (10% of the time). 8)

[kilgoretrout 0]

your flop bet is just under the size of the pot, so you should have enough to make him fold if he had nothing (ace king, and ace queen are not nothing on this flop). But if he has a hand he will probably call. One problem here is that this flop really sucks for your play, as 3 raggs came, and it is pretty clear that the flop didn't hit you. mind you it probably didn't hit him either, but if he has a decent sized ace or any pair he should like the flop and call your bet. but since you commited so many chips preflop with this stop and go in mind, following up probably isn't terrible even though the flop isn't really that good for you. You would rather have a couple medium cards, or some kind of gutshot draw (without an ace) on the flop, or obviously a king or ten.Overall i think you played this one alright, though maybe you should have just pushed preflop, if you think he will fold a steal, or even folded, but only if the guy is super tight with his open raises.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Your call before the flop is absolutley correct. Once you miss that flop, though, you need to surrender to the power of position. It's as simple as that. Pushing in on the flop is a good idea when you actually have something, but with K-10 you have no pair and no draw. Had you check/folded, you'd have more than enough chips to take a shot at a pot later. Let the other guy take the risk by bluffing at the flop. If he has the guts to bet it, you pretty much have to give it to him.

[zimmer4141 0]

Unless this guy is a complete rock, I think I push preflop right here. He could be on a steal with a much lesser hand. I think that you can't push if you miss because you will have no draws likely if you miss. Also, calling just gives him a chance to hit the flop, and you are out of position. If you think he's strong and he hasn't been stealing, then fold pf. If he has shown tendencies to steal, then push all in.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

The problem with going all in before the flop is the fact that his opponent is committed to the call. If he puts in 14K it would be tough to think that he would fold for 26K more...

[richgambler 0]

The problem with going all in before the flop is the fact that his opponent is committed to the call. If he puts in 14K it would be tough to think that he would fold for 26K more...

Absolutely.....I agree with DNs first post 100%....good call pf, but when you completely miss as you did, its time to surrender....save your chips for a better spot(position, position, position)

[Swift_Psycho 1]

I tend to fold pre-flop here. DN's option isn't a terrible idea IMO either. Pushing here is absolutely terrible though, we have almost no fold equity and I don't want to play an all in pot with K-10 off.

[PoppinFresh 0]

Interesting, I never thought of calling and then folding the flop. I guess I've gotten too used to the "all or nothing" approach in these situations.I dislike pushing pre-flop because I don't see him laying down too many hands here, and K 10 kind of sucks to be getting it all-in preflop. I thought I might have some fold equity on the flop.Anyway, as for the result, he had A Q and took a while going into his time bank before calling. Definitely on the strong end of the range of hands I put him on. I wonder if he would've folded a K Q or a K J or the A Q on a scarier flop. Thanks to DN and others for the responses. Time to check that flop next time.

[Actuary 3]

Interesting, I never thought of calling and then folding the flop. I guess I've gotten too used to the "all or nothing" approach in these situations.

Isn't that what Harrington's books have done to the mentality?

[copernicus 0]

Interesting, I never thought of calling and then folding the flop. I guess I've gotten too used to the "all or nothing" approach in these situations.

Isn't that what Harrington's books have done to the mentality?

Harrington would not advocate going all-in, here, because you dont have first in vigorish and the call is automatic (see DNs post) , but getting 2.2/1 he would say call pre-flop for the pot odds.On the flop it is all in or fold because any bet has you pot committed.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I tend to fold pre-flop here. DN's option isn't a terrible idea IMO either. Pushing here is absolutely terrible though, we have almost no fold equity and I don't want to play an all in pot with K-10 off.

Phew. Glad I wasnt the only one who thought that. DN had me worried for a bit there.

[Actuary 3]

Interesting, I never thought of calling and then folding the flop. I guess I've gotten too used to the "all or nothing" approach in these situations.

Isn't that what Harrington's books have done to the mentality?

Harrington would not advocate going all-in, here, because you dont have first in vigorish and the call is automatic (see DNs post) , but getting 2.2/1 he would say call pre-flop for the pot odds.On the flop it is all in or fold because any bet has you pot committed.

that's what I get for not reading it.Thanks for more info.

[copernicus 0]

Interesting, I never thought of calling and then folding the flop. I guess I've gotten too used to the "all or nothing" approach in these situations.

Isn't that what Harrington's books have done to the mentality?

Harrington would not advocate going all-in, here, because you dont have first in vigorish and the call is automatic (see DNs post) , but getting 2.2/1 he would say call pre-flop for the pot odds.On the flop it is all in or fold because any bet has you pot committed.

that's what I get for not reading it.Thanks for more info.

Most of the people who did read it probably dont remember it right anyway. :twisted:

[Guest Anonymous]

You said he had AQ what was the rest of the board? Who won the hand? Or did I miss that? I would have checked and seen his action at least or checked raised him if the bet was small. You went all in anyway why not give him a chance to second guess himself thinking wow BB played low cards hit the flop for a straight! I think there are times when people will lay it down after the flop when they think they have second best rather than go all in and end up getting lucky and winning with high card.

[Pokur 0]

Checking out my AV :-)