poker etiquette - opponents hole cards

[princeof56k 0]

I recently started playing at casinos and I ran into a situation on more than one occasion where the guy sitting next to me wasnt properly guarding his hole cards and practically giving me a free look. Keep in mind I'm NOT intentionally doing this. I am NOT leaning back and over trying to sneak a peek at his cards. I actually lean over the table with both my elbows on the table. This usually happens when the player to my right uses his right hand to look at his cards and does not use his left to protect them. I'm actually looking at his hands to see if he's grabbing chips or other give aways. If he's careless, I can clearly view his cards.I know you are not suppose to intentionally look at your opponents cards (by leaning over or other tricks), but what do you do when the player is just careless?I basically came up with three choices:A. Keep getting the free looks and take advantageB. Just dont look at him and observer other players when he's bettingC. Politely tell him that hes exposing his cards and to protect them betterI've currently been picking option B. I would like to tell him to protect his cards, but I'm not sure how to tell him.I was interested to see how some of you would handle this situation.

[JustinHEMI04 0]

I would and have many times politely informed him that he is exposing his cards. Never had an ill word said about it, rather more thanks you's than anything.Justin

[Guest XXEddie]

He is the one showing you...take advantage

[PhdPharm 0]

Definitely tell him about it, that's the right thing to do. Let's say that you had some particular tell that someone figured out during a tournament. You would hope that after he took advantage of your tell and beat you that he would mention it to you so that you can solve the problem.How would you like to be treated if you are doing something dumb but not realizing it?

[TheIceman05 0]

Definitely tell him about it, that's the right thing to do.  Let's say that you had some particular tell that someone figured out during a tournament.  You would hope that after he took advantage of your tell and beat you that he would mention it to you so that you can solve the problem.How would you like to be treated if you are doing something dumb but not realizing it?

See, I don't like that analogy. It would be princely to tell someone if you spotted his tell, but it'd be bad poker. What if someone was playing poorly? Would you tell him that, and shore his game up for him? Deliberately peeking is one thing. But if someone is making some strategic error- be it checking the nuts, calling when he can't win, or exposing his hole cards- it's bad poker not to take advantage. Once again, I really hate angle shooters. And if you can't live with it, or feel too guilty, then by all means tell him. But protecting your hole cards is one of the most important aspects of poker; if your opponent can't master this one simple skill, then you'd be remiss not to use it.Ice

[ncpokerclub 0]

Poker in an information game. I called a bet in a tourney the other day even though I knew I had the hand lost. I would only cost me 100. in a 6000. chip stack. The tell told me this guy raises only with two overcards even queen jack. If he cant protect his cards that is his problem. Even my 9 year old son who I have tought how to play protects his cards. Why should you feel guilty for his stupidity. Herb McCandless

[Matt Miner 0]

A. Keep getting the free looks and take advantagethat one.

[jeremy 0]

If it's a stranger I take advantage, but if it's a friend at a home game I'd tell him to protect them.

[UNCpoker 0]

Definitely tell him about it, that's the right thing to do.  Let's say that you had some particular tell that someone figured out during a tournament.  You would hope that after he took advantage of your tell and beat you that he would mention it to you so that you can solve the problem.How would you like to be treated if you are doing something dumb but not realizing it?

See, I don't like that analogy. It would be princely to tell someone if you spotted his tell, but it'd be bad poker. What if someone was playing poorly? Would you tell him that, and shore his game up for him? Deliberately peeking is one thing. But if someone is making some strategic error- be it checking the nuts, calling when he can't win, or exposing his hole cards- it's bad poker not to take advantage. Once again, I really hate angle shooters. And if you can't live with it, or feel too guilty, then by all means tell him. But protecting your hole cards is one of the most important aspects of poker; if your opponent can't master this one simple skill, then you'd be remiss not to use it.Ice

Have to agree, I am not gonna tell somebody about their tells, unless it was a really good friend where we worked to help eachother play the game better. But under no circumstances am I going to help other players with specific tells and take away my advantage from observing other players.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Why would you tell anyone they were exposing their cards? If someone was exposing their cards and you couldn't see them but someone else could, I'd bring it up, but if you alone could see them, why say anything?

[redster 0]

prince if you playing at casinos, ill assume your playing in lake charles, please point out any and all tells, any stupid plays, or other give aways. ill be sure to put them to good use :wink: by the way dont dont get over there near enough to notice any on my own, so any help is appeciated...hopefully that all changes real soon thoughred

[princeof56k 0]

After reading the replies, I think I'm going to take advantage of people exposing their cards. I think the thing that did it for me is that protecting your cards is a basic fundamental of the game. So just like knowing the number of outs, when to call/raise, ect., it's the players responsibility to know these things.And by the way red, I do play at Harrah's in Lake Charles. That 2 hour drive is killing me!Thanks for the replies.

[redster 0]

dont feel bad prince, i live in lafayette, its like an hour and a half drive, pretty much why i dont get there too often. but its definately the best games ive found in LA. Anyway, im actually going there tommorrow for my second interview at the new casino Lauberge. so if i move there look out at the tables. lol...ill definately see you around.

[A3DDFAN 0]

IF YOU WANNA RUN WITH THE GAME LEARN THE RULES. IF YOUR A SUCKER ITS NOT MY FAULT.LOOK LOOK LOOK

[JFarrell20 1]

Well if you tell him, he'll get mad at you and may report you. I wouldn't take the chance. You can't just not look at him at all. I mean how are you supposed to get a read on him when you're worrying about seeing his cards???Just keep looking and use it to your advantage. Poker is a game of wits, and he's not playing very well, is he?

[JFarrell20 1]

After reading the replies, I think I'm going to take advantage of people exposing their cards.  I think the thing that did it for me is that protecting your cards is a basic fundamental of the game.  So just like knowing the number of outs, when to call/raise, ect.,  it's the players responsibility to know these things.And by the way red, I do play at Harrah's in Lake Charles.  That 2 hour drive is killing me!Thanks for the replies.

I've been over there a few times... got mad last time though b/c the rake was like 10 %. Now I just play online. Wouldn't mind going over there just for fun though.

[rog 0]

I dont think that warning him that you can see his cards, and pointing out his tells are the same thing AT ALL. If he has tells, it's part of the game to see them and take advantage of them. That's part of the art of reading people. Seeing your opponents cards is not part of the game. This is not information you are supposed to have available to you. In a friendly "home" game, there should be no doubt that the right thing to do is to tell the person. I'd still tell a stranger. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I dont think I want to win that way. Rog

[Vidgames 0]

I dont think that  warning him that you can see his cards, and pointing out his tells are the same thing AT ALL.  If he has tells, it's part of the game to see them and take advantage of them.  That's part of the art of reading people.  Seeing your opponents cards is not part of the game.  This is not information you are supposed to have available to you.  In a friendly "home" game, there should be no doubt that the right thing to do is to tell the person.  I'd still tell a stranger.  Maybe I'm an idiot, but I dont think I want to win that way.

Call me stupid also...I'd rather beat a player on my skill. It's like giving someone a $5 for something in a store and getting change back like you gave a $20. You *can* profit from the mistake, but I just don't think it's the way I want to make my money.I'd opt to tell him that he's being sloppy and that he'll lose a lot of money unnecessarily...maybe he'd buy me a beer or something. That'd make me happier than slow playing my hand to take a big pot from him because I knew he was bluffing on bad cards I happened to see.Take advantage of tells and betting patterns, sure, not of sloppiness, that's my view... A E

[AceOfSpaiDs 0]

take advantage....he's showing you

[KDawgCometh 2]

there's nothing wrong with keeping this secret to yourself. its his fault that he's exposing your cards. Hell, even doyle snuck a peek at howards cards at the toc when howard was a little careless

[bdluss 0]

What I find is interesting is this, one poster earlier posted about colluding in a game with a friend. He proceeded to get ripped a new ass hole, but now we have someone looking at someone else's hole cards and the general consensus is to take a peak. Now, I am not condoning either behaviour, I am more of a fan of fleecing the sucker, but lets have some moral consistency fellas.

[Guest]

I've had this happen a few times... if it is consistant, I'll quietly lean over and tell him that he is exposing his cards and it would be in his best interest to protect them better.after that one warning tho, if he is still careless.... any and all information he provides is fair game in my book. I can't help it if he's a dumbas s.I think that strikes a fair balance between tipping him off and taking advantage of him should he continue to be sloppy

[KramitDaToad 0]

Manners, pride or integrity.If you have even one of these you warn him

[jack24bauer24 0]

Someone posted that pointing out someones tells and pointing out someone's exposing their hole cards isn't the same thing because picking up and not giving tells is part of the game...well I've got news for you folks, protecting your hole cards is part of the game too.If you are too stupid to not realize you are exposing your hole cards then you deserve anything you get...its a skill too. Would this same terrible player do you the favor of checking the river when he's sucked out his runner runner inside straight draw? I don't think so.If you're at the table you take every edge possible.If you can't spot the sucker in the first 30 mins you are the sucker, and in this situation both the person exposing his cards and the one telling him about it are the suckers.Also, the anology of not telling someone when they are exposing their cards being the same as getting 20 dollars in change when you pay with a 5 dollar bill for something is ludicrous, its not the same thing at all.

[jacknino 0]

I think this is a pretty interesting topic. It has always been my policy to tell people that expose their whole cards that they are doing it because I felt like I was cheating if I looked at them without saying something. I felt like I wasn't using my skills to beat them. After I started reading this thread, I started changing my mind with the argument that it is just like having a really bad tell. After thinking about it a little more I realized that it is different than a regular tell. A regular tell is available to the whole table. Seeing someone's whole cards is at best available to the guys on both sides of him. So it ends up giving me an advantage over the people who aren't sitting next to the exposer. So I think I'm going to stick with telling the guy that he should protect his cards better. If he continues to expose them then it's going to be his bad and I'll use it.