analyze this

[Royal_Tour 0]

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof.Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.Bottom line,You have no business trying to post odds refer to my old thread on the chances of a over pair to your pair, there is certain odds that you hold a lower PP to someones over pair. not a guestimate like you assume.And in this case, we are not debating wether he has AA, we are debating if its correct to call an all in here even though we are among top 5 in chips early in a MTT.on and BTW,, finally you are correct, AA isnt bad beat proof. Did i say i fold KK and AA preflop?. no. do i fold KK in this instance? Yes.thank you

I have business posting anything I want, especially rational ways to look at this hand.if he holds only 1 ace, 7:3 is a huge edge. Hmmm, 70% chance that I'm far and away the chip leader and can coast to big money or 30% I go play another. you'll never see odds that good.Folding KK preflop when you know you're giong to be heads up is weak weak weak.

We are only HU because everyone folds.Understand that people can get A's at any time during a tourney

[whoomprat 0]

No he wont' date='he will lose to AA several times.

He will beat all other hands hundreds of times.

[whoomprat 0]

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof.Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.Bottom line,You have no business trying to post odds refer to my old thread on the chances of a over pair to your pair, there is certain odds that you hold a lower PP to someones over pair. not a guestimate like you assume.And in this case, we are not debating wether he has AA, we are debating if its correct to call an all in here even though we are among top 5 in chips early in a MTT.on and BTW,, finally you are correct, AA isnt bad beat proof. Did i say i fold KK and AA preflop?. no. do i fold KK in this instance? Yes.thank you

I have business posting anything I want, especially rational ways to look at this hand.if he holds only 1 ace, 7:3 is a huge edge. Hmmm, 70% chance that I'm far and away the chip leader and can coast to big money or 30% I go play another. you'll never see odds that good.Folding KK preflop when you know you're giong to be heads up is weak weak weak.

We are only HU because everyone folds.Understand that people can get A's at any time during a tourney

By definition, you are only heads up when everybody else folds.Did anything i say hinge on the fact that A's are available now or later?

[jlgosse 0]

Yes, but based on the information we have, it is much more likely that he has AA, don't you realize this?

[Royal_Tour 0]

Indeed, not much point to risk a shot at the big money by throwing away potential money on this one hand. Calling in this case is -EV in several spots.Might as well wait for a better time to toss the chips in.

No Jl. dont say it like that.. I call with KK, i push with KK. but in this exact spot. i fold with KK.As long as we are strong in our tournament NL game, we will be fine by throwing away KK.(p.S. this means nothing, but last night i had AA once, i got no action and won the blinds.) i could have thrown it away and never would have noticed a difference)

[Royal_Tour 0]

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof.Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.Bottom line,You have no business trying to post odds refer to my old thread on the chances of a over pair to your pair, there is certain odds that you hold a lower PP to someones over pair. not a guestimate like you assume.And in this case, we are not debating wether he has AA, we are debating if its correct to call an all in here even though we are among top 5 in chips early in a MTT.on and BTW,, finally you are correct, AA isnt bad beat proof. Did i say i fold KK and AA preflop?. no. do i fold KK in this instance? Yes.thank you

I have business posting anything I want, especially rational ways to look at this hand.if he holds only 1 ace, 7:3 is a huge edge. Hmmm, 70% chance that I'm far and away the chip leader and can coast to big money or 30% I go play another. you'll never see odds that good.Folding KK preflop when you know you're giong to be heads up is weak weak weak.

We are only HU because everyone folds.Understand that people can get A's at any time during a tourney

By definition, you are only heads up when everybody else folds.Did anything i say hinge on the fact that A's are available now or later?

Yes., you said the simple fact that the only hand that can beat us is AA, is reason enough to make this call.

[PocketRocks 0]

For me it would really depend on the exact situatuion. The only way I fold here is if he has been a very tight player. Otherwise, I would call. You can't win without taking some risks, and this situation I don't even think there is much risk(unless he has been really tight). If he is a somewhat loose player, he could have any wired pair, AKs, AQs, maybe even AKo, AQo or KQs. The chance of him having AA is very low, he probably has a small pair, putting you on over cards and trying to scare you out of the pot, if you call he might think he has a race situation. But since you are posting this on here, I would say you call and he turns up AA. At those low limits, he could really have anything, I have seen people push it with mush less, daily. I had AKs last night in the BB. Blinds were 100-200, I pushed the rest of my stack of 900 in. Dude called me with J6o and won. Online poker...gotta love it!!! :roll:

This is 2 chipleaders against each other, this isn't 900 chips at 100 / 200 blinds. This is 4500 + chips each when blinds are 15/30.

I know, I was just giving an example, that in low limits, or cheap buy-in tournies, people will call with anything.

[Royal_Tour 0]

This is a case of, the only player with our amount of chips has raise, then pushed our re-raise all in. We have only 300 out of 4500 chips in the middle. This is the same as having 1 chip in the middle and 14 in our stack and then calling just because we have a hand. KK is still only 70% vs Ax. The call would have be +EV if he hasn't got aces, but when we think about Tournament Equity this is an easy fold. (if we fold we are still top in chips, if we call we may not cash).exactly

[TruePoker 1]

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof.Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.Bottom line,You have no business trying to post odds refer to my old thread on the chances of a over pair to your pair, there is certain odds that you hold a lower PP to someones over pair. not a guestimate like you assume.And in this case, we are not debating wether he has AA, we are debating if its correct to call an all in here even though we are among top 5 in chips early in a MTT.on and BTW,, finally you are correct, AA isnt bad beat proof. Did i say i fold KK and AA preflop?. no. do i fold KK in this instance? Yes.thank you

I have business posting anything I want, especially rational ways to look at this hand.if he holds only 1 ace, 7:3 is a huge edge. Hmmm, 70% chance that I'm far and away the chip leader and can coast to big money or 30% I go play another. you'll never see odds that good.Folding KK preflop when you know you're giong to be heads up is weak weak weak.

He didn't just fold KK, he folded it to a raise, then an all in after we re-raised. Calling here is weak, we are chip leader already and have a huge chance of making the money....You call 3 times against a naked ace here and you are out of a tournament where you are chip leader at least once... Whn your opp has AA you go out 4 out of 5 times... Calling here is - - - - -- - - -- - -eV

[PocketRocks 0]

For me it would really depend on the exact situatuion. The only way I fold here is if he has been a very tight player. Otherwise, I would call. You can't win without taking some risks, and this situation I don't even think there is much risk(unless he has been really tight). If he is a somewhat loose player, he could have any wired pair, AKs, AQs, maybe even AKo, AQo or KQs. The chance of him having AA is very low, he probably has a small pair, putting you on over cards and trying to scare you out of the pot, if you call he might think he has a race situation. But since you are posting this on here, I would say you call and he turns up AA. At those low limits, he could really have anything, I have seen people push it with mush less, daily. I had AKs last night in the BB. Blinds were 100-200, I pushed the rest of my stack of 900 in. Dude called me with J6o and won. Online poker...gotta love it!!! :roll:

1st - dont bring the limits into question, we are analyzing the play.2nd - why does he have to be tight to have AA? is it not possible for any player to hold AA at any time during the tourney?3rd - why are we basing our call onthe fact that "the chance is low" and not looking at all the events leading up to this.

This is why poker is so interesting, so many players play so many different ways. I will play differently today than I did yesterday. It would really depend on how I was feeling and who was in the hand to make that call. 99% of the time I would call. Poker is Gambling, you aren't gambling if there is no risk. If you want to be a pu$$y, then lay it down, otherwise, grow some balls and take some risks. You want to fold and wait for a better spot???? Wait for the rocks??? That is the only better spot you will be in. I just think for him to come over the top is a stupid play if he is holding AA. It seems more like a scare play to me, but then again I was not at the table and don't know how the guy was playing, that is where the "feel" comes into play. If you feel it, push it...if not, fold.

[whoomprat 0]

it would be a heck of a fold.

not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie

I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.

I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof. Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.

You push all in as chip leader with AT / KQ after you have been re-raised by another chip leader???? I am sure you win a lot of tournaments.....You are a chip leader, and you want to be out of the tournament 30% of the time? I wouldn't take that bet at all, it is just stupid. For a start he is probably got AA not just one A anyway. So you aren't really 7 / 3...

I wasn't in the hand genius. I dont' know how the villian got his chips. He doesn't even have to be good. He could have tripled up nailing a full house with 27oHe doesn't 'probably' have AA. He could have aces. the only thing that makes it likly he has AA is because the OP wouldn't have posted "I doubled up with KK" he's trying to see if there's anybody good enough to read AA on the villian and there isn't. Not Royal, not you, not Dan Harrington, not Carrot Top.

[TruePoker 1]

This is why poker is so interesting, so many players play so many different ways. I will play differently today than I did yesterday. It would really depend on how I was feeling and who was in the hand to make that call. 99% of the time I would call. Poker is Gambling, you aren't gambling if there is no risk. If you want to be a pu$$y, then lay it down, otherwise, grow some balls and take some risks. You want to fold and wait for a better spot???? Wait for the rocks??? That is the only better spot you will be in. I just think for him to come over the top is a stupid play if he is holding AA. It seems more like a scare play to me, but then again I was not at the table and don't know how the guy was playing, that is where the "feel" comes into play. If you feel it, push it...if not, fold.

Poker isn't a game of :What hand do I have ?It is a game of :What do I think the opponent has, What does he think I think he has, What does he want me to think he has, What do I have?

[TruePoker 1]

it would be a heck of a fold.

not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie

I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.

I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof. Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.

You push all in as chip leader with AT / KQ after you have been re-raised by another chip leader???? I am sure you win a lot of tournaments.....You are a chip leader, and you want to be out of the tournament 30% of the time? I wouldn't take that bet at all, it is just stupid. For a start he is probably got AA not just one A anyway. So you aren't really 7 / 3...

I wasn't in the hand genius. I dont' know how the villian got his chips. He doesn't even have to be good. He could have tripled up nailing a full house with 27oHe doesn't 'probably' have AA. He could have aces. the only thing that makes it likly he has AA is because the OP wouldn't have posted "I doubled up with KK" he's trying to see if there's anybody good enough to read AA on the villian and there isn't. Not Royal, not you, not Dan Harrington, not Carrot Top.

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

[PocketRocks 0]

I wasn't in the hand genius. I dont' know how the villian got his chips. He doesn't even have to be good. He could have tripled up nailing a full house with 27oHe doesn't 'probably' have AA. He could have aces. the only thing that makes it likly he has AA is because the OP wouldn't have posted "I doubled up with KK" he's trying to see if there's anybody good enough to read AA on the villian and there isn't. Not Royal, not you, not Dan Harrington, not Carrot Top.I aggree, no matter what you people say, you would call 99% of the time also, we all knew when he posted that the guy would flip up AA. But the chances of him having AA are VERY slim, go with the odds. You'll win some and lose some.

[Royal_Tour 0]

This is why poker is so interesting, so many players play so many different ways. I will play differently today than I did yesterday. It would really depend on how I was feeling and who was in the hand to make that call. 99% of the time I would call. Poker is Gambling, you aren't gambling if there is no risk. If you want to be a pu$$y, then lay it down, otherwise, grow some balls and take some risks. You want to fold and wait for a better spot???? Wait for the rocks??? That is the only better spot you will be in. I just think for him to come over the top is a stupid play if he is holding AA. It seems more like a scare play to me, but then again I was not at the table and don't know how the guy was playing, that is where the "feel" comes into play. If you feel it, push it...if not, fold.who said anything about waiting for rocks???i pushed with 5's last night in neg -o during the final table, why, because it was a great time to do so.Blinds here are 15/30 pot is very small compared to a push from one of the chip leaders.Do you honestly believe that the only way to go deep in tourneys is to double triple your stack as early and as often as possible?.

[TruePoker 1]

I aggree, no matter what you people say, you would call 99% of the time also, we all knew when he posted that the guy would flip up AA. But the chances of him having AA are VERY slim, go with the odds. You'll win some and lose some.

I would rather play good poker.....Who cares if we don't make any money in this pot? I don't care if I lose 300 chips here. I know I am good enough to win or at least cash highly with a chip lead in this kind of tournament. I am 100% sure that he call here a lot less than 10% of the time, less than 5%....

[Royal_Tour 0]

I aggree, no matter what you people say, you would call 99% of the time also, we all knew when he posted that the guy would flip up AA. But the chances of him having AA are VERY slim, go with the odds. You'll win some and lose some.This is the exact reason why so many people love playing tourneys. People like you who base the game on nothing but gambling with some skill.

[whoomprat 0]

it would be a heck of a fold.

not really.. i folded AK last night when i made it 3200 to go and he came over the top of me, he showed KK. why risk your entire stack for something so stupid as a preflop race this early?.KK is dominating over any hand except AA, but i still dont like calling in this spot. the 4x raise is just to eerie

I never knew what a huge vagina you were.Passing on chance to double up because there's 5% chance this monkey has AA? I believe a race is when it's about even i.e. opponent has two over cards to your pair. There's only one overcard to KK, so no race.Per your AK fold, that would he a race against any pocket pair. Whole different ballgame.

I love vagina's. theres a 5% chance he has aces?.. baaahahah i love this.. where do you get this from idiot?ya theres also a 25% chance that i'm gonna have sex with my secretary.give me a break bud. If you want to sound smart you would have said there is a slight chance he has a PP higher than yours, and since you hold KK its a very slight chance. I'd also like to point out that when i say Race., I mean allowing all 5 cards to show.if chump boy holds 9,10 suited and calls our raise, and flop comes down J,K,3 what now? we are winning this hand, only a complete idiot chases.but chump boy pushed all in, and so we will give him the action he so desires and flop is J,K,3,7,Q. ohh we got rivered, bad beat right?. almost as bad as KK vs AA?.

SO by Royal's logic you should fold AA too, because it is also not bad beat proof. Monkey could have had the same flop action with AA, AK, AQ, AJ, QQ, JJ, hell even AT.Pairs come 6 ways, non pairs come 16 ways. so 6 out of 82 is 7%. He could even have TT or KQ. Bottom line is it's far from likely he has AA.If Tru is correct that an A is a 7:3 dog to KK, i'd take that bet.

You push all in as chip leader with AT / KQ after you have been re-raised by another chip leader???? I am sure you win a lot of tournaments.....You are a chip leader, and you want to be out of the tournament 30% of the time? I wouldn't take that bet at all, it is just stupid. For a start he is probably got AA not just one A anyway. So you aren't really 7 / 3...

I wasn't in the hand genius. I dont' know how the villian got his chips. He doesn't even have to be good. He could have tripled up nailing a full house with 27oHe doesn't 'probably' have AA. He could have aces. the only thing that makes it likly he has AA is because the OP wouldn't have posted "I doubled up with KK" he's trying to see if there's anybody good enough to read AA on the villian and there isn't. Not Royal, not you, not Dan Harrington, not Carrot Top.

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

[TruePoker 1]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

[Royal_Tour 0]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

haha. True, its cuz the topic is posted in general. .its like debating why a square doesnt fit in the circle cut out.

[whoomprat 0]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

You mean doubling them up and crushing the tourney.

[TruePoker 1]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

You mean doubling them up and crushing the tourney.

Yes, that is just what happened here :sarcasm:

[Royal_Tour 0]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

You mean doubling them up and crushing the tourney.

You are so correct in this case. You have no idea how correct you are. The chip leader at level 1 in a tournament always makes the final Table. ALWAYS. You should write a book about NL tourneys, it would sell like hot cakes cuz it would be a 2 page book including the cover.

[whoomprat 0]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

You mean doubling them up and crushing the tourney.

Yes, that is just what happened here :sarcasm:

Results of one hand should alter strategy :sarcasm:

[whoomprat 0]

Who cares, even if he doesn't have AA, the call here is stupid as hell....

Nope.

Yes.... wasting all your chips is a great move

You mean doubling them up and crushing the tourney.

You are so correct in this case. You have no idea how correct you are. The chip leader at level 1 in a tournament always makes the final Table. ALWAYS. You should write a book about NL tourneys, it would sell like hot cakes cuz it would be a 2 page book including the cover.

Oh you caught me, You're so good. Doubling the 2nd highest stack isn't even an advantage. You should write that book