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17 outs, would anyone have done differently (long)


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I just got back from a very successful trip to the Taj, and wanted to relay one great hand I had to see if anyone here wouldn't have done the same thing. BTW I was fortunate enough to win a $10k seat in the main event in 2 weeks.I was down there to play in the $500 NL event and to try and satellite into the main event. I came in about 175 out of 513 on Saturday so no money for me. I was so amped about having won a total of $12k in seats the night b4, that I couldn't get to sleep.I never, ever have problems sleeping but I couldn't sleep at all so I played the tourney and lasted over 5 hours with no sleep at all. By the time I finally went to bed last night I had been up almost 40 hours straight. Not sure if it is record for me but must be close.So I did okay but think my last hand, I really misplayed and might not have if I hadn't been so tired. Red Bull is amazing though!! I was able to function on Red Bull and Adrenaline.Okay sorry to ramble, here is the hand in question, I was playing $1-2 NL ring games in between the satellites and tournies, and was doing very well. I have a 2,3 of clubs, and normally I would muck it unless I was in the blind, but I was up over $200.00 and the table was pretty loose, so I am in the small blind and it comes back to the button and he raises it to $12.00. Well as I said I usually would toss it but I decided to gamble one time and if I catch a flop great, as I have a disguised hand if not I can muck if he bets.Flop was about as perfect for me as it could get:4 :D 3 :club: 5 :D So I make a small bet, can't remember but I think it was like $10.00. The button thinks for a second and then raises to $50.00. Now I look at what he has left and he has $101.00. As I said I have been doing real well and at this point I figure I have an open-ended straight draw, 8 outs, a flush draw, 7 outs since the 6 of Clubs and Ace of clubs are already counted, and 2 3's giving me a total of 17 outs. I decide to put him all in. He calls with pocket 6's. Now the turn is a 3, giving me a set, and the river is a 6 giving him the boat.I imagine that by now you know which six it was, right? Yup my gin card and his worst nightmare, the 6 of clubs making my Straight Flush.Now it took him quite a while to realize he had lost and the dealer had to patiently explain it to him, and he was so pissed off! He was saying how could I make that call etc. etc., but everyone at the table but him agreed with me and said it was a great move on my part.The player didn't even realize that on the turn I was ahead with a set of 3's. Now I realize that I should never have called his original bet pre-flop but he wasn't referring to that move, he was upset that I put him all in post-flop with the draws I had.I would counter here (I didn't to him), that post-flop he should not have called a $101 re-raise for all his chips with 6's.After the flop I have described would any of you have played it differently?Thanks!

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I like it a lot. Obviously need more reads etc, but I think it was a great play. He had a hugely hard call to make. You make so many hands fold with this raise. Even if you are not ahead you have a lot of outs if he calls.p.s. : 222 is a nicer flop

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You are way ahead of two overcards (like AK), you are almost 60-65% against most pockets pairs, depending on whether they have a club. AA, 66, and 77 are essentially even money since they gobble up some of your outs. If In fact 66 is the worst (non-set) case - if one of those is a club then you are slightly behind if not then slightly in front.It's one of those nice places where you are probably way in front and if not then in a coin-flip that is usually slightly in your favour. Of course if you opponent has 67 of clubs then you're screwed... but that's pretty unlikely:)

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I think you said it, and probably already know it, but the worst thing you did was calling the raise with 23 out of position against a raiser. But you were running hot, so I have no major problems with it. I like your post flop play, I would have done the exact same.

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even with the two blockers to your straight ( and you had to put him on a higher pair than sixes if he called) 15 outs still makes you the favorite on that flop. Preflop call not withstanding, you played your hand fine. If you really have to wonder if you made the right move on this hand, why didy ou play that rag to begin with? Other than flopping trips or the wheel, this is about the best possible flop for you to have. If you don't play this flop, why play suited connectors at all?

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even with the two blockers to your straight ( and you had to put him on a higher pair than sixes if he called) 15 outs still makes you the favorite on that flop. Preflop call not withstanding, you played your hand fine. If you really have to wonder if you made the right move on this hand, why didy ou play that rag to begin with? Other than flopping trips or the wheel, this is about the best possible flop for you to have. If you don't play this flop, why play suited connectors at all?
Exactly.I really felt that it was 100% correct, I just enjoy the feedback on here, and the guy was so angry and he just couldn't understand to save his life why I would put him all in post-flop.I do like suited connectors, which is precisely why I played them.It was a fun hand.
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You have to push the flop. You gain equity for every dollar you put in, as opposed to if a blank falls on the turn, where he might be able to push you off your hand.
Yup, that's why I did it. I figured either he folds right then and there, which is what I would have done in his position, and I win the pot uncontested.Or he calls and I have so many outs that I still think it makes perfect sense to make the play at that point.
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only 13 outs to be a favorite? out of the other 45 unseen cards? that's 1/5. I'm not really understanding why that would be a favorite?
I was thinking it was 14 outs to be a favorite.With two cards to come, presuming 13 outs, both cards have to be among the 32 non-out cards.The probability that this happens (with 13 outs) is 32/45 * 31/44 = .501.Of course, we usually don't presume to know what the other player's cards are when we decide our action, so we're presuming that it's 13 cards out of 47 that are good for us, making it 34/47 * 33/46 = .519. (This actually makes it worse.)The same calculations with 14 outs:53.0% favorite if we know his cards.51.2% favorite if we don't.
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only 13 outs to be a favorite? out of the other 45 unseen cards? that's 1/5. I'm not really understanding why that would be a favorite?
13 isn't over 13 - so you need 14 outs to be the favourite. And there are 47 unknown cards, unless you can see your opponents cards in which case wait for a better spot.There's also two cards to come.I suggest you stop playing poker until you understand this.Or come play dice with me - if I roll a 1 or a 2 you pay me. If not I pay you. But I get to roll two dice.
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even with the two blockers to your straight ( and you had to put him on a higher pair than sixes if he called) 15 outs still makes you the favorite on that flop. Preflop call not withstanding, you played your hand fine. If you really have to wonder if you made the right move on this hand, why didy ou play that rag to begin with? Other than flopping trips or the wheel, this is about the best possible flop for you to have. If you don't play this flop, why play suited connectors at all?
Exactly.I really felt that it was 100% correct, I just enjoy the feedback on here, and the guy was so angry and he just couldn't understand to save his life why I would put him all in post-flop.I do like suited connectors, which is precisely why I played them.It was a fun hand.
I hope what you didn't do was explain to him why you played the hand like you did, talking about how many outs you had, and what not. There's nothing betting than making the right move AND having someone think you suck because of it. DON'T EVER DEFEND YOURSELF!! Just say you lika da gamblo, that you're lucky, and laugh as you stack the chips.
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good play since it was a cash game. tournaments, i find a lot of players playing similar hands too fast, which isn't really a good play. it's like risking the tournament on a 50/50...ehhhhh this play in cash game= very good since you have a big stackthis play in tournaments= ehhhh 50/50 ::unless you have a big stack and losing the coinflip wont hurt you much, then it's good::

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nice hand. i really like it.that said, i think you underestimate the importance of position in deep stack poker.i would call the $12 with 2-3 suited on the button. but, not from the small blind.good luck,aseem

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even with the two blockers to your straight ( and you had to put him on a higher pair than sixes if he called) 15 outs still makes you the favorite on that flop. Preflop call not withstanding, you played your hand fine. If you really have to wonder if you made the right move on this hand, why didy ou play that rag to begin with? Other than flopping trips or the wheel, this is about the best possible flop for you to have. If you don't play this flop, why play suited connectors at all?
Exactly.I really felt that it was 100% correct, I just enjoy the feedback on here, and the guy was so angry and he just couldn't understand to save his life why I would put him all in post-flop.I do like suited connectors, which is precisely why I played them.It was a fun hand.
I hope what you didn't do was explain to him why you played the hand like you did, talking about how many outs you had, and what not. There's nothing betting than making the right move AND having someone think you suck because of it. DON'T EVER DEFEND YOURSELF!! Just say you lika da gamblo, that you're lucky, and laugh as you stack the chips.
Nope!Others were doing the explaining. I am at the point that I am confident that I know what I am doing. I never play the same hand the same way, there is way too much information that has to be factored in, that sometimes it has nothing to do with the odds etc. I don't need to explain myself anymore, I am very comfortable in my game and have no problem if I lose, I say nice hand and move on.I am finally enjoying this game very much.
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good reason to play well within your bankroll.So that you can freely make these correct pushes.
Yup, that's why when I have been challenged by smart ass, 18 year olds online to play for ridiculous amounts I don't.Not because I do not have confidence that I can beat them, but because a sure way to immediate ruin is to let your pride and ego dictate at what level you play.I will never allow someone to bully me in to playing for stakes that are not within my bankroll.There is no shame in saying, hey this is the level that I can currently afford.I have a family to support and can't just throw money around like a drunken sailor.That being said I will move up to higher levels as the bankroll allows.Thanks all for the feedback, it is truly and sincerely appreciated.
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good play since it was a cash game. tournaments, i find a lot of players playing similar hands too fast, which isn't really a good play. it's like risking the tournament on a 50/50...ehhhhh this play in cash game= very good since you have a big stackthis play in tournaments= ehhhh 50/50 ::unless you have a big stack and losing the coinflip wont hurt you much, then it's good::
Thanks Teneight!Sorry I was a complete dick to you in previous posts. You have clearly shown improved maturity and I should and will do the same moving forward.
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Played the hand well, only thing is shouldn't you be betting more into this flop or checkraising. Betting 10$ their is a good chance overcards might just call and see a cheap turn. Other then that nh. Pushing on the flop def the way to go. I often end up making that same play with overs and a flush draw as you're 50/50 against most hands and their is a good chance that your opponent folds

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