was i out of line here?

[Ole PK 0]

I was playing party last night... multi-tabling a couple NL tables... Anyway... I was playing pretty steady (up about 80 BB's after 2 hours) when this hand came down.Here's the thing: I felt like making a play. I was in a middle position and there was only one limper. If anyone was tracking my stats they'd notice I'd only seen 25% of flops, and I was raising preflop less than usual (I believe 8%)I was dealt Q 2like I said, one limper. I raise it 8x the BB. BB calls and the original limper folds.OK. We didn't anticipate that. No big deal. The BB has been playing a ton of hands. Flop comesQ 7 2 rainbowI'm thinking, it's going to be funny if i have to show this hand.He checks and I bet another 8x the BB, half the pot.Anyway, I cant remember what the turn and river was, but it does'nt matter. He check called it down.He had A Q and I won the pot.He was freaking out that I raised with Q 2... I didn't say anything except for "I bet you didn't expect the ole Q 2". I only make plays like this every couple hours or so. Let me tell you, it paid dividends later in the session when I raised 8x the BB with AA.

[urza75 0]

To be honest i think this was a good play, it worked so nothing to worry about, just coz he's freaking out and should have noticed that you were playing a tight game and as you said playing that hand like that meant you got paid off more later, so i think it was good for you but foolish for him because he should have been paying attention in the first place and not taken it as far as he did. And besides its good to mix it up sometimes.

[hartman72 0]

Not a bad play at all- You had been playing tight and any player with a brain should have recognized it. A raise with Q2 is not bad at all with only one limper and the blinds to act. If you get reraised preflop- you just fold, if not hope to hit a great flop like you did. If I have AQ there, I'd be pretty disappointed too, but can't do to much about it.

[BDPoolie 0]

I think this is an okay moved every now and then too. But the way i see it is that the other guy played it bad. His check after the flop wasn't terrible, if he was trying to slow play his strong Q. But when you bet, he should have raised you to see where he was at. If you called and or reraised his flop raise he would have at least known that you were strong and could have reevaluated. But check/calling all the way down, he had no more information.

[ziggy587 0]

How are you going to play the flop there if it was Q 7 3 and he checks it into you? You already bet 10% of your 2hr profit pre-flop and now hit top pair. You of course are going to bet your top pair that was checked to you....Eventually you loose 40-50% of your 2 hr profit on this hand when it should not have been played in the first place...Lucky for you it turned out for the good....Just saying that sometimes these "junk" plays are hard to get away from when you hit top pair and are representing better pre-flop. Unless you hit trips or 2 pair, you are better to miss the flop totally so you can get away from it with only your 10% loss.

[buchkoba 0]

How are you going to play the flop there if it was Q 7 3 and he checks it into you? You already bet 10% of your 2hr profit pre-flop and now hit top pair. You of course are going to bet your top pair that was checked to you....Eventually you loose 40-50% of your 2 hr profit on this hand when it should not have been played in the first place...Lucky for you it turned out for the good....Just saying that sometimes these "junk" plays are hard to get away from when you hit top pair and are representing better pre-flop. Unless you hit trips or 2 pair, you are better to miss the flop totally so you can get away from it with only your 10% loss.

Where did he say he couldn't away from top pair?Who says he can't fire at the pot regardless and just be wary of any resistance?Do you only play top ten starting hands ever?

[Chip_and_a_Chair 0]

Is 25 percent of flops seen tight? I'm usually around 12 percent in NL games, so my butt must be puckered.

[AlphaOmega 0]

12 percent of flops seen is very low. Depending on the limits you play you may be ok though. When I experimented with the smash strategy I always saw about 5-6 percent of the flops but still made a lot of money. Provided that you are in a game - generally low stakes - where players don't think about how tight you are playing, you can still make a lot of money.If you are playing a game though where a few of the players are noticing how tight you are, you will never get enough action to justify waiting for the top ten hands.

[urza75 0]

Is 25 percent of flops seen tight? I'm usually around 12 percent in NL games, so my butt must be puckered.

Its the fact he said he raised it preflop which he was only doing 8% of the time, thats shows he was bluffing or had a good hand, now if i see a guy only raise 8% of the time im thinking he would have had a good hand.

[ziggy587 0]

How are you going to play the flop there if it was Q 7 3 and he checks it into you? You already bet 10% of your 2hr profit pre-flop and now hit top pair. You of course are going to bet your top pair that was checked to you....Eventually you loose 40-50% of your 2 hr profit on this hand when it should not have been played in the first place...Lucky for you it turned out for the good....Just saying that sometimes these "junk" plays are hard to get away from when you hit top pair and are representing better pre-flop. Unless you hit trips or 2 pair, you are better to miss the flop totally so you can get away from it with only your 10% loss.

Where did he say he couldn't away from top pair?Who says he can't fire at the pot regardless and just be wary of any resistance?Do you only play top ten starting hands ever?

With an 8x' BB Bet? Probably....My point is that you ARE going to keep firing at the pot...And in his situation, he is going to keep getting called.... Meaning he will loose 40-50% of his 2hr profit on this hand.

[AlphaOmega 0]

OP,I'm not sure what you expected to accomplish here by raising with this hand. You acted surprised when he called you - did you not want him to? In that case you are only winning 2 big blinds on a very risky move. This kind of play just seems silly.The only time I would ever consider doing something like this would be for advertising value. If you play tight and everyone notices, then you need to mix up your play to get action. In this instance though, you weren't even going to advertise it because you wanted to take the pot down pre-flop, which wasn't worth the risk to begin with.

[ziggy587 0]

OP,I'm not sure what you expected to accomplish here by raising with this hand. You acted surprised when he called you - did you not want him to? In that case you are only winning 2 big blinds on a very risky move. This kind of play just seems silly.The only time I would ever consider doing something like this would be for advertising value. If you play tight and everyone notices, then you need to mix up your play to get action. In this instance though, you weren't even going to advertise it because you wanted to take the pot down pre-flop, which wasn't worth the risk to begin with.

EXACTLY..... :roll:

[urza75 0]

OP,I'm not sure what you expected to accomplish here by raising with this hand. You acted surprised when he called you - did you not want him to? In that case you are only winning 2 big blinds on a very risky move. This kind of play just seems silly.The only time I would ever consider doing something like this would be for advertising value. If you play tight and everyone notices, then you need to mix up your play to get action. In this instance though, you weren't even going to advertise it because you wanted to take the pot down pre-flop, which wasn't worth the risk to begin with.

Could he not be doing this to show that he is bluffing and hopes to get called later when he does have a hand and can take done another pot? I agree that if it didnt work it makes him look ilke an idiot, but it did so its not a big thing, he knows he's played it wrong. But i think he was just wanting to take the blinds, which agreed isn't a lot but its the action afterwards and before hand that needs to e looked at, not just this one hand on a play like this. He was tight and winning, he made a preflop raise (which he was doing only 8% of the time) someone called (who was playing a lot of hands) Flop comes in his favour and he keeps betting into a guy who calls all the way. He wins. It should never had got that far, the other guy should have folded sooner because he knew he was up against a tight player. If he had folded, guy shows Q2 and every see's that he was on the bluff and people in future hands head's up may think he is bluffing yet again when he's not and he wins more because people bet into him and he raises it back to them.

[Ole PK 0]

Could he not be doing this to show that he is bluffing and hopes to get called later when he does have a hand and can take done another pot? I agree that if it didnt work it makes him look ilke an idiot, but it did so its not a big thing, he knows he's played it wrong. But i think he was just wanting to take the blinds, which agreed isn't a lot but its the action afterwards and before hand that needs to e looked at, not just this one hand on a play like this. He was tight and winning, he made a preflop raise (which he was doing only 8% of the time) someone called (who was playing a lot of hands) Flop comes in his favour and he keeps betting into a guy who calls all the way. He wins. It should never had got that far, the other guy should have folded sooner because he knew he was up against a tight player. If he had folded, guy shows Q2 and every see's that he was on the bluff and people in future hands head's up may think he is bluffing yet again when he's not and he wins more because people bet into him and he raises it back to them.

You and I are on the same page. It's not a play I make often at all. I felt the circumstances were right... I know I got lucky and hit my flop. I really just wanted it to go a long way to increase my action... which as I mentioned, it did.

[urza75 0]

Could he not be doing this to show that he is bluffing and hopes to get called later when he does have a hand and can take done another pot? I agree that if it didnt work it makes him look ilke an idiot, but it did so its not a big thing, he knows he's played it wrong. But i think he was just wanting to take the blinds, which agreed isn't a lot but its the action afterwards and before hand that needs to e looked at, not just this one hand on a play like this. He was tight and winning, he made a preflop raise (which he was doing only 8% of the time) someone called (who was playing a lot of hands) Flop comes in his favour and he keeps betting into a guy who calls all the way. He wins. It should never had got that far, the other guy should have folded sooner because he knew he was up against a tight player. If he had folded, guy shows Q2 and every see's that he was on the bluff and people in future hands head's up may think he is bluffing yet again when he's not and he wins more because people bet into him and he raises it back to them.

You and I are on the same page. It's not a play I make often at all. I felt the circumstances were right... I know I got lucky and hit my flop. I really just wanted it to go a long way to increase my action... which as I mentioned, it did.

Its something i do from time to time but it seems that the others don't seem to understand that poker is just not one hand, its many many hands and what you do in one hand may have an effect on a hand 20 hands away and as long as you know its not something you should do everytime you have Q2 which you seem to do. Its a fine play, you had the right table image, i do think though that the guy who called you was foolish to keep it up.

[jeffgen 0]

I don't think you crossed any lines... maybe got a little reckless and it payed off this time. I think changing it up is definitely a good thing to do every now and then, just to throw people off a bit and/or get more action if you are showing the bluff. Obviously you got lucky on that flop, and it would have been hard to get away from just top-pair, but that's how poker rolls. I also think he should have played AQ a bit stronger preflop, but that's his problem.

[ziggy587 0]

I don't think you crossed any lines... maybe got a little reckless and it payed off this time. I think changing it up is definitely a good thing to do every now and then, just to throw people off a bit and/or get more action if you are showing the bluff. Obviously you got lucky on that flop, and it would have been hard to get away from just top-pair, but that's how poker rolls. I also think he should have played AQ a bit stronger preflop, but that's his problem.

How strong do you play A Q from the big blind when a semi-tight player just raised 8x's the BB from middle position?

[pokerboyvn 0]

How are you going to play the flop there if it was Q 7 3 and he checks it into you? You already bet 10% of your 2hr profit pre-flop and now hit top pair. You of course are going to bet your top pair that was checked to you....Eventually you loose 40-50% of your 2 hr profit on this hand when it should not have been played in the first place...Lucky for you it turned out for the good....Just saying that sometimes these "junk" plays are hard to get away from when you hit top pair and are representing better pre-flop. Unless you hit trips or 2 pair, you are better to miss the flop totally so you can get away from it with only your 10% loss.

Where did he say he couldn't away from top pair?Who says he can't fire at the pot regardless and just be wary of any resistance?Do you only play top ten starting hands ever?

With an 8x' BB Bet? Probably....My point is that you ARE going to keep firing at the pot...And in his situation, he is going to keep getting called.... Meaning he will loose 40-50% of his 2hr profit on this hand.

How the hell do u know that he's keep firing into the pot w/ only top pair?By the way, even if he miss the flop completely, say flop: J T 3 and the other has AQ. Since he has position, he can still make the other dude go away.Keep playing predictably and you'll never move up limit.

[Guest Anonymous]

I was dealt Q 2

Were they suited?

[chindi 0]

Could he not be doing this to show that he is bluffing and hopes to get called later when he does have a hand and can take done another pot?

Except that it might not pay off. Someone made the reference to poker being many many many many hands, and that's right, and assuming you're not playing small limits very few people are going to lock in to 'He bluffed once with that raise, he's bound to be doing it again this time'.Taking a stab at pots is fine, but doing it with total rags isn't a long term positive. Because unless you hit your miracle two pair flop, you're basically just begging to leak off 12 - 60 minutes of play. On the other hand, there is no such thing as 'out of line' by playing different starting hands, some plays are just far far looser than others.

[Staynerjohn 0]

in this case with a raise to go HU with an aggressive player...I will actually try to lose the pot (and keep it cheap) just to keep him guessing as well as the rest of the table...I will show the hand if possible and try to look as embarrased as I can...the next time I raise with AA or KK I want him to come overtop thinking I'm on the steal again...just my action once in a while

[krup24 0]

Is 25 percent of flops seen tight? I'm usually around 12 percent in NL games, so my butt must be puckered.

25% of flops is not tight

[urza75 0]

Could he not be doing this to show that he is bluffing and hopes to get called later when he does have a hand and can take done another pot?

Except that it might not pay off. Someone made the reference to poker being many many many many hands, and that's right, and assuming you're not playing small limits very few people are going to lock in to 'He bluffed once with that raise, he's bound to be doing it again this time'.Taking a stab at pots is fine, but doing it with total rags isn't a long term positive. Because unless you hit your miracle two pair flop, you're basically just begging to leak off 12 - 60 minutes of play. On the other hand, there is no such thing as 'out of line' by playing different starting hands, some plays are just far far looser than others.

Sorry it it came off that i think this should happen everytime, i didn't mean it to sound that way, but once in a while i think its ok.

[InsanityCubed 0]

OP,I'm not sure what you expected to accomplish here by raising with this hand. You acted surprised when he called you - did you not want him to? In that case you are only winning 2 big blinds on a very risky move. This kind of play just seems silly.The only time I would ever consider doing something like this would be for advertising value. If you play tight and everyone notices, then you need to mix up your play to get action. In this instance though, you weren't even going to advertise it because you wanted to take the pot down pre-flop, which wasn't worth the risk to begin with.

He was surprised the BB called, since there was a limper in front of him, who he was probably trying to isolate with the aggressive play. The limper also puts an extra BB in the pot, so he was winning 2.5 blinds if everyone folded preflop.

[Ole PK 0]

25% of flops is not tight

I suppse you are right. However, at this table -- trust me... 25% was tight (c'mon, this was party afterall)I like the discussion this post has generated though. Everyone’s opinions and insight are very interesting.