a hand @ the final table of a wcoop event.

[Guest]

PokerStars Game #2525393527: Tournament #10017950, Hold'em Pot Limit - Level XIX (8000/16000) - 2005/09/08 - 01:25:19 (ET)Table '10017950 365' Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: SizDiz (124048 in chips) Seat 2: BABYHAN (813245 in chips) Seat 3: XX RAGED XX (464909 in chips) Seat 4: wrap_99 (907984 in chips) Seat 5: luckyfire4 (1134914 in chips) Seat 6: dirkdiggler9 (2417400 in chips) wrap_99: posts small blind 8000luckyfire4: posts big blind 16000*** HOLE CARDS ***dirkdiggler9: folds SizDiz: folds BABYHAN: folds XX RAGED XX: folds wrap_99: raises 16000 to 32000luckyfire4: raises 16000 to 48000wrap_99: calls 16000*** FLOP *** [2c 4s 3d]wrap_99: checks luckyfire4: bets 48000wrap_99: calls 48000*** TURN *** [2c 4s 3d] [4h]wrap_99: checks luckyfire4: bets 120000wrap_99: calls 120000*** RIVER *** [2c 4s 3d 4h] [3c]wrap_99: checks luckyfire4: bets 250000wrap_99: calls 250000*** SHOW DOWN ***luckyfire4: shows [6d 7h] (two pair, Fours and Threes)wrap_99: mucks hand luckyfire4 collected 932000 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 932000 | Rake 0 Board [2c 4s 3d 4h 3c]Seat 1: SizDiz folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: BABYHAN folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: XX RAGED XX (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: wrap_99 (small blind) muckedSeat 5: luckyfire4 (big blind) showed [6d 7h] and won (932000) with two pair, Fours and ThreesSeat 6: dirkdiggler9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Was this a blatant chip dump?A minute later, luckyfire was asking about a chop in relation to chip size and wrap declined. What the fuck happened here???Isn't it also impossible to win this hand w/ seven high?The other players started questioning them both about it.

[Randy Reed 0]

Looks like his 25 didn't hit? only hand that couldn't beat 67.

[Cory 0]

that does seem very very odd, either that guy wasn't paying attention, he sucks at poker, or they were cheating. I doubt it's that he sucks if he made the final table of a wcoop unless he's very lucky. But yeah that definitely deserves some investigating.

[Cory 0]

Looks like his 25 didn't hit?  only hand that couldn't beat 67.

Then why would he call on the river?

[alf13 0]

This should be reported immediately if not sooner.....This was an obvious chip dump.Everybody should send an email with this hand history....It looks like these guys were on the phone or on IM coordinating this dump.What i don't understand is why the guy didn't push allin on the river...so the 52 can fold and it wouldn't look so obvious.

[Petoria 0]

I'm completely confused. The only explanation (besides cheating) is that the tournament has been going on for 10hrs and the guy is half asleep.

[captnwmkidd 0]

I sent an email to PokerStarsEveryone should send one, like Alf said.If we don't put this right in front of PokerStars face, they will ignore it.Whats funny or sad, however you want to look at it, ...only the stupid ones that are obvious get caught. If they would have played it different at the end of the hand, the winner never would have had to show his 7 high.

[Guest]

a new thread just started on rpg about this.

[AllenRay4 0]

the caller on the end maybe did have a 2 or and didnt realize he got counterfeited. i know this is a final table of a wcoop event but it happens, especially if you are playing a lot of tables at once or something. and besides, it's almost too obvious of a chip dump if that's what they were doing. btw, no need to send an email to pokerstars. someone is already probably watching from support and i'm sure if a player is that mad who is actually playing, he will take up with pokerstars. if i worked for pokerstars support though and i saw a bunch of emails flooding in from railbirds who didnt even see what the guy mucked yet are accusing him of cheating, i'd probably laugh. they have better stuff to do hopefully

[alf13 0]

the caller on the end maybe did have a 2 or  and didnt realize he got counterfeited.  i know this is a final table of a wcoop event but it happens, especially if you are playing a lot of tables at once or something.  and besides, it's almost too obvious of a chip dump if that's what they were doing.  btw, no need to send an email to pokerstars.  someone is already probably watching from support  and i'm sure if a player is that mad who is actually playing, he will take up with pokerstars.   if i worked for pokerstars support though and i saw a bunch of emails flooding in from railbirds who didnt even see what the guy mucked yet are accusing him of cheating, i'd probably laugh.  they have better stuff to do hopefully

He couldn't beat 7 high....hello?

[captnwmkidd 0]

Just got the email:Thank you for your email; as I'm sure you are aware, we were observing the final table closely, and this hand raised a few eyebrows around here as well. Given that wrap_99 lost the hand, there are only two possible hands for him to have held: 62 and 52; both are fairly reasonable given the action prior to the river, and the call on the river seems to simply have been a product of fatigue after a long event, not noticing that he'd been counterfeited by the higher two pair.Note as well that in the way this hand was played, the larger stack built up a much bigger stack, as opposed to normal collusion methods, which is to try to keep each other alive. After this hand, wrap_99 was moved down to essentially last place in the tourney and was struggling to survive. This hand is actually quite the opposite of what colluders would normally do.There is nothing to indicate that these players know each other or colluding in any way; it is simply as wrap_99 said: he made a stupid mistake.Regards,JacobPokerStars Support Team

[captnwmkidd 0]

Poker DBHome | Tournaments | Logout wrap_99Total Winnings: $28,028 Total Final Tables: 8 Date Tournament/Event Place Winnings 08/24/2005 Hold'em NL $150 5 $3,721 08/12/2005 Hold'em NL $150 9 $844 08/05/2005 Hold'em NL $150 1 $13,425 07/08/2005 Hold'em NL $150 17 $419 07/06/2005 Hold'em NL $150 11 $529 07/01/2005 Hold'em NL $100 8 $716 06/30/2005 Hold'em NL $100 6 $481 06/26/2005 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit $20 1 $720 05/29/2005 Hold'em NL $500 40 $1,940 11/27/2004 7 Card Stud Hi/Lo Limit $200 2 $1,536 10/17/2004 Hold'em NL $200 98 $678 08/21/2004 Omaha PL $200 5 $672 08/06/2004 Omaha PL $500 29 $1,218 07/28/2004 Omaha Hi/Lo PL $300 21 $1,129 Doesn't really seem like a rookie to me........ not great stats but better than one would think in making a mistake about the counterfeit hand.Its possible it went down the way Stars said it did...I must admitBut to say a smaller stack won't dump to a bigger stack isnt always true.If the big stack wins first, its better than the 2 winning 5th and 6th combined.I have wasted too much time on this that I will never get back...And I am so tired right now, my logic is probably completely wrong

[Stylin_Fish 0]

PokerStars is in on it!!!! :evil:

[captnwmkidd 0]

LOLHow's that saying go............Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone is not out to get you

[Stylin_Fish 0]

LOLHow's that saying go............Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone is not out to get you

Not only that, but online poker IS rigged.

[captnwmkidd 0]

LOLHow's that saying go............Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone is not out to get you

Not only that, but online poker IS rigged.

lol..Ummm..I'll assume (sw) on your post but if not,........okayI'll ask you then what I asked the last guy that made that statement while we were playing poker online.If you really think that online poker is rigged and you continue to play online poker, what does that say about you?Just curious.....

[Stylin_Fish 0]

LOLHow's that saying go............Just because your paranoid doesn't mean everyone is not out to get you

Not only that, but online poker IS rigged.

lol..Ummm..I'll assume (sw) on your post but if not,........okayI'll ask you then what I asked the last guy that made that statement while we were playing poker online.If you really think that online poker is rigged and you continue to play online poker, what does that say about you?Just curious.....

I thought my was good enough but just in case(sw)(sw)(sw)(sw)(sw)(sw)(sw)

[captnwmkidd 0]

No offense intendedIt's late..I'm half asleep.time to go to bed....

[lboarts 0]

When I'm playing online and I hear someone say "this site is rigged" I'll ask them, "Why would you play for real money on here then?"The most common answer I get:"Something to do."Second most common:They say nothing at all.