josh arieh & plo

[greatwhite 0]

Doug Lee's slowplay was idiotic...this is OMAHA YOU MORON.A     A44 board.....bet the censored you moron...you are gonna get called by a 4 or a low wrap and get paid off....instead...he gave a free card for anybody with a pair in the ir hand to beat his fours full....MORON!

you watched his earlier win in the circuit event. were you surprised by his bad play?

I can't believe nobody commented on Doug Lee's "monster" laydown with the pocket aces to an all in and a call. "this is a monster laydown" I believe were his words.

That's not a monster laydown. In fact he should have. AA is not that good in omaha.

[the red bull 0]

Doug Lee's slowplay was idiotic...this is OMAHA YOU MORON.A     A44 board.....bet the censored you moron...you are gonna get called by a 4 or a low wrap and get paid off....instead...he gave a free card for anybody with a pair in the ir hand to beat his fours full....MORON!

you watched his earlier win in the circuit event. were you surprised by his bad play?

I can't believe nobody commented on Doug Lee's "monster" laydown with the pocket aces to an all in and a call. "this is a monster laydown" I believe were his words.

That's not a monster laydown. In fact he should have. AA is not that good in omaha.

My bad i forgot the "sw". I was trying to say that his version of a monster laydown was just an easy laydown.

[gus28 0]

even though someone may be a higher percentage to win a hand if he is currently ahead in the hand he has the best hand.example in holdem. if someone has KQ of hearts and another person has pocket 2's and the flop comes down j-10-x with two hearts. The 2's are no longer a favorite to win the hand but they are currently the best hand.

[greatwhite 0]

My bad i forgot the "sw". I was trying to say that his version of a monster laydown was just an easy laydown.Ok...yeah when I looked over it I knew you were either lost or being sarcastic. That was a standard laydown and definately not a moster. On a side note I think that there should be alot more different games posted on TV. The whole year there is 2 plo and 1 7cs event that will be broadcasted that I'm aware of. I don't even think they are showing the $10,000 plo game on ESPN which is sad.

[Pokerghost2 0]

jesus made a + ev move with the girl.

[the red bull 0]

My bad i forgot the "sw". I was trying to say that his version of a monster laydown was just an easy laydown.Ok...yeah when I looked over it I knew you were either lost or being sarcastic. That was a standard laydown and definately not a moster. On a side note I think that there should be alot more different games posted on TV. The whole year there is 2 plo and 1 7cs event that will be broadcasted that I'm aware of. I don't even think they are showing the $10' date='000 plo game on ESPN which is sad. [/quote']They also aren't showing Doyle Brunson's win, which would be a great match to watch considering the competition and only 6 players. Does anyone find it weird that the 1st episode they showed of the WSOP circuit was 2 hours long but every other episode is 1 hour long? What is up with with that?

[lboarts 0]

Doug Lee's slowplay was idiotic...this is OMAHA YOU MORON.A A44 board.....bet the censored you moron...you are gonna get called by a 4 or a low wrap and get paid off....instead...he gave a free card for anybody with a pair in the ir hand to beat his fours full....MORON!

you watched his earlier win in the circuit event. were you surprised by his bad play?

I can't believe nobody commented on Doug Lee's "monster" laydown with the pocket aces to an all in and a call. "this is a monster laydown" I believe were his words.

That's not a monster laydown. In fact he should have. AA is not that good in omaha.

My bad i forgot the "sw". I was trying to say that his version of a monster laydown was just an easy laydown.

I only caught the last 1/2 hour, so I didn't see him lay down the AA.That said, I've been working on my OH game lately, and I find it easy to lay down AA when my other 2 cards don't help my hand, unless I'm on a short stack and have to find a spot to get my chips in. Then I'll push with AAxx. Is this line of thinking correct?

[the red bull 0]

Doug Lee's slowplay was idiotic...this is OMAHA YOU MORON.A A44 board.....bet the censored you moron...you are gonna get called by a 4 or a low wrap and get paid off....instead...he gave a free card for anybody with a pair in the ir hand to beat his fours full....MORON!

you watched his earlier win in the circuit event. were you surprised by his bad play?

I can't believe nobody commented on Doug Lee's "monster" laydown with the pocket aces to an all in and a call. "this is a monster laydown" I believe were his words.

That's not a monster laydown. In fact he should have. AA is not that good in omaha.

My bad i forgot the "sw". I was trying to say that his version of a monster laydown was just an easy laydown.

I only caught the last 1/2 hour, so I didn't see him lay down the AA.That said, I've been working on my OH game lately, and I find it easy to lay down AA when my other 2 cards don't help my hand, unless I'm on a short stack and have to find a spot to get my chips in. Then I'll push with AAxx. Is this line of thinking correct?

I think so. I play the same way. Doug Lee also made some other bad calls IMO, like early on he called a reraise with a hand like AK95 or something similiar.

[joeltebbutt 0]

Iboarts any AA hand is a favorite against any non AA hand preflop in omaha. However, no-one is a long way ahead/behind preflop in omaha.

[the red bull 0]

Iboarts any AA hand is a favorite against any non AA hand preflop in omaha. However, no-one is a long way ahead/behind preflop in omaha.

In a multiway hand, Aces aren't necessarily the favorite.

[lboarts 0]

Thanks, guys, that's my line of thinking as well. I know omaha is a drawing game, and pushing with the best hand isn't always smart. Sometimes its even best to lay down the nuts, when there's too many draws and too many oponents in the hand.I find myself pushing on a short stack with KKxx as well. I'm just wondering if I shouldn't be looking for better drawing hands to push with, such as AKQJ dbl suited. When I first started out in omaha I used to look at my hand as 2 seperate starting hands, meaning I'd seperate it. If I had AK56, I'd tell myself, "OK, I have big slick, a suited connector, maybe a nut flush draw if my A was dble suited, etc. Then I read somewhere that a pro (Matusow, I believe) said you should look at your hand as one entity. In other words, if they don't all work together, muck it. Consequently, I've been laying down AKxx and such. It seems to have helped, as I am making it deeper in trnys, but I constantly find myself on a short stack around the bubble, hence my question about pushing AAxx on a short stack. Maybe my starting hand requirements are too rigid, and I'm not playing enough hands. Not sure, but I feel if I fix this leak I could perform at a very high level in this game.

[the red bull 0]

Thanks, guys, that's my line of thinking as well. I know omaha is a drawing game, and pushing with the best hand isn't always smart. Sometimes its even best to lay down the nuts, when there's too many draws and too many oponents in the hand.I find myself pushing on a short stack with KKxx as well. I'm just wondering if I shouldn't be looking for better drawing hands to push with, such as AKQJ dbl suited. When I first started out in omaha I used to look at my hand as 2 seperate starting hands, meaning I'd seperate it. If I had AK56, I'd tell myself, "OK, I have big slick, a suited connector, maybe a nut flush draw if my A was dble suited, etc. Then I read somewhere that a pro (Matusow, I believe) said you should look at your hand as one entity. In other words, if they don't all work together, muck it. Consequently, I've been laying down AKxx and such. It seems to have helped, as I am making it deeper in trnys, but I constantly find myself on a short stack around the bubble, hence my question about pushing AAxx on a short stack. Maybe my starting hand requirements are too rigid, and I'm not playing enough hands. Not sure, but I feel if I fix this leak I could perform at a very high level in this game.

IMO, you should push in with KKxx when you are a shortstack. KKxx is a good hand in a heads up confrontation, and I would rather have more chips when i push in with KKxx then have very little chips with AKQJ double suited. With the AKQJ, you would likely get called in at least one or 2 spots, making your hand not so much of a favorite, as opposed to KKxx heads up.For instance:I have 8BB in a tournament, find KKxx. If you push all in, it would be rare to be called in more than one spot.But if you have 4BB and find AKQJ in a tournament you can very easily get called in a few spots, making your hand more vulnerable.As for the AKxx, I usually lay that down unless im in late positionblinds.Just my 2 cents.

[rawl316 0]

At the time he had the best hand, not the best drawing hand though

he said it like he was the FAVORITE to win the hand.

from what I saw, he was very surprised with how fast jesus called that he was ahead. he looked like he was expecting 2 pair from jesus.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

Eventhough I don't play Omaha that much I really enjoy it. I enjoy seeing something along the lines of a 7 K 8 , Nut flush, second nut flush, and lots of straight possibilites. Josh was playing a lot of these types of hands last night. Double suited connectors are nice but most of them are low so your flushes are hard to play.Then again, it's always a laugh to see JJJ3 or 3456 I probably made myself look like a omaha donkey.

[basshuntr 0]

At the time he had the best hand, not the best drawing hand though

he said it like he was the FAVORITE to win the hand.

Ummm no he said he had the best hand....not that he was the favorite. I don't care so much for Josh either, but facts is facts.Bass

[alf13 0]

At the time he had the best hand, not the best drawing hand though

he said it like he was the FAVORITE to win the hand.

Ummm no he said he had the best hand....not that he was the favorite. I don't care so much for Josh either, but facts is facts.Bass

If being a 3 to 1 underdog is having the "best hand"...then yeah...he had the best hand.BTW...if any of you want to play some Omaha....I am at the 1/2 PLO tables on UB.... :wink:

[koolromeo 0]

Thanks, guys, that's my line of thinking as well.  I know omaha is a drawing game, and pushing with the best hand isn't always smart.  Sometimes its even best to lay down the nuts, when there's too many draws and too many oponents in the hand.I find myself pushing on a short stack with KKxx as well.  I'm just wondering if I shouldn't be looking for better drawing hands to push with, such as AKQJ dbl suited.  When I first started out in omaha I used to look at my hand as 2 seperate starting hands, meaning I'd seperate it.  If I had AK56, I'd tell myself, "OK, I have big slick, a suited connector, maybe a nut flush draw if my A was dble suited, etc.  Then I read somewhere that a pro (Matusow, I believe) said you should look at your hand as one entity.  In other words, if they don't all work together, muck it.  Consequently, I've been laying down AKxx and such.  It seems to have helped, as I am making it deeper in trnys, but I constantly find myself on a short stack around the bubble, hence my question about pushing AAxx on a short stack.  Maybe my starting hand requirements are too rigid, and I'm not playing enough hands.  Not sure, but I feel if I fix this leak I could perform at a very high level in this game.

how often do you think youre going to get a double suited broadway wrap? push it with the kk if you're short stacked and cross your fingers. waiting for a monster like the big broadway is absurd. you might get a hand like that once a day.

[PAYforUSC 0]

At the time he had the best hand, not the best drawing hand though

he said it like he was the FAVORITE to win the hand.

Ummm no he said he had the best hand....not that he was the favorite. I don't care so much for Josh either, but facts is facts.Bass

If being a 3 to 1 underdog is having the "best hand"...then yeah...he had the best hand.BTW...if any of you want to play some Omaha....I am at the 1/2 PLO tables on UB.... :wink:

[lboarts 0]

Thanks, guys, that's my line of thinking as well.  I know omaha is a drawing game, and pushing with the best hand isn't always smart.  Sometimes its even best to lay down the nuts, when there's too many draws and too many oponents in the hand.I find myself pushing on a short stack with KKxx as well.  I'm just wondering if I shouldn't be looking for better drawing hands to push with, such as AKQJ dbl suited.  When I first started out in omaha I used to look at my hand as 2 seperate starting hands, meaning I'd seperate it.  If I had AK56, I'd tell myself, "OK, I have big slick, a suited connector, maybe a nut flush draw if my A was dble suited, etc.  Then I read somewhere that a pro (Matusow, I believe) said you should look at your hand as one entity.  In other words, if they don't all work together, muck it.  Consequently, I've been laying down AKxx and such.  It seems to have helped, as I am making it deeper in trnys, but I constantly find myself on a short stack around the bubble, hence my question about pushing AAxx on a short stack.  Maybe my starting hand requirements are too rigid, and I'm not playing enough hands.  Not sure, but I feel if I fix this leak I could perform at a very high level in this game.

how often do you think youre going to get a double suited broadway wrap? push it with the kk if you're short stacked and cross your fingers. waiting for a monster like the big broadway is absurd. you might get a hand like that once a day.

I understand, and after I posted I thought someone might bring this up. I should've included other hands to look for in my post, such as 5789 double suited, although if you make a flush with this hand in a multiway pot it stands a good chance of not holding up. It just seems to me that holding a big pair in omaha, while a favorite preflop, doesn't hold up all that well. Generally, when I get low stacked, the blinds are so high that I can push AAxx or KKxx preflop and get HU more often than not, but I'm still left drawing to a 2 outer, and most of the time my caller is holding 1 of my outs. I think I need to review my starting hand requirements. I also need to improve my short handed play. At a full table I normally only draw to the nuts when facing pot sized bets, but short handed I tend to play my K high flushes, bottom fullhouses, etc. I'll readily admit my OH game needs work, but I'm getting there.

[KDawgCometh 2]

At the time he had the best hand, not the best drawing hand though

he said it like he was the FAVORITE to win the hand.

Ummm no he said he had the best hand....not that he was the favorite. I don't care so much for Josh either, but facts is facts.Bass

If being a 3 to 1 underdog is having the "best hand"...then yeah...he had the best hand.BTW...if any of you want to play some Omaha....I am at the 1/2 PLO tables on UB.... :wink:

are you really trying to come across as dumb as your sounding. Look its the same thing in stud, if I have a pair of 4s on 4th and someone has an oesd of cards higher then me, I have the best hand, but he is the favorite because he has the best draw, its just the same if I have TP when the money goes in in PLO and the villian has a big wrap+flush draw, I have the best hand, but again, he is the favorite because he has the better draw, but the key to both of those situations is that hero still has a made hand in both situations

[alf13 0]

are you really trying to come across as dumb as your sounding. Look its the same thing in stud, if I have a pair of 4s on 4th and someone has an oesd of cards higher then me, I have the best hand, but he is the favorite because he has the best draw, its just the same if I have TP when the money goes in in PLO and the villian has a big wrap+flush draw, I have the best hand, but again, he is the favorite because he has the better draw, but the key to both of those situations is that hero still has a made hand in both situations

First of all...there was no need to attack me....Second of all...have you ever played PLO before?I will make you a bet.....We will deal that same hand 100 times....same hole cards....same flop....You take the top pair...good kicker....I'll take the 3 to 1 favorite.....Want to go $50 a deal?I bet not.....It's not Holdem....Like I said...."He had the best hand...but was a 3 to 1 underdog."Some people must not play much PLO.

[ChuckSty 0]

kdawg i agree and disagree, yeah i see your pointbut when it comes down to it are you going to put all your money on the line with a hand that's gonna win 60% of the time that isn't made or one that is made but is only gonna win 40%.yeah i think everyone is on the same page here and are just being asses. Everyone can see Alf's point, and everyone can see your point.Me, i'll take the drawing hand for a million dollars. Yeah it's not the "best hand" but really it is.

[CaneBrain 95]

are you really trying to come across as dumb as your sounding. Look its the same thing in stud, if I have a pair of 4s on 4th and someone has an oesd of cards higher then me, I have the best hand, but he is the favorite because he has the best draw, its just the same if I have TP when the money goes in in PLO and the villian has a big wrap+flush draw, I have the best hand, but again, he is the favorite because he has the better draw, but the key to both of those situations is that hero still has a made hand in both situations

First of all...there was no need to attack me....Second of all...have you ever played PLO before?I will make you a bet.....We will deal that same hand 100 times....same hole cards....same flop....You take the top pair...good kicker....I'll take the 3 to 1 favorite.....Want to go $50 a deal?I bet not.....It's not Holdem....Like I said...."He had the best hand...but was a 3 to 1 underdog."Some people must not play much PLO.

Alf all I was trying to say was Arieh was not wrong. His hand was technically best at the time (top pair with a better kicker)Of course, Jesus will win the hand much more often. And no one in their right mind would take the deal described above.This is just a question of semantics really....no one is saying you are wrong....just that Arieh wasnt really wrong either.

[CaneBrain 95]

by the way Alf how freaking disappointing was that Miami?FSU game. Canes were so clearly better....I have never seen them make so many: mental mistakes, special teams gaffes, easy dropped passes and easy dropped INTs.Very bitter that one got away in such a manner.

[tskillz187 0]

are you really trying to come across as dumb as your sounding. Look its the same thing in stud, if I have a pair of 4s on 4th and someone has an oesd of cards higher then me, I have the best hand, but he is the favorite because he has the best draw, its just the same if I have TP when the money goes in in PLO and the villian has a big wrap+flush draw, I have the best hand, but again, he is the favorite because he has the better draw, but the key to both of those situations is that hero still has a made hand in both situations

First of all...there was no need to attack me....Second of all...have you ever played PLO before?I will make you a bet.....We will deal that same hand 100 times....same hole cards....same flop....You take the top pair...good kicker....I'll take the 3 to 1 favorite.....Want to go $50 a deal?I bet not.....It's not Holdem....Like I said...."He had the best hand...but was a 3 to 1 underdog."Some people must not play much PLO.

This is getting annoying. Stop defending yourself, we understand that he was an underdog. All your crazy challenges can stop. We are arguing semantics, he said he had the best hand or whatever, because if there were no more cards to come he would have won. Obviously he was in a bad spot. We understand the odds which have been pointed out in previous posts (7 stud, hold em oe str8 flush and over cards.)