whats the skill to luck ratio in poker??

[PAYforUSC 0]

100% SKILL

[THIR13EN 0]

100% SKILL

It is not 100% skill and that's for sure. If this game is 100% skill then how come lesser players can beat a more skilled player?You won't see that in basket ball, an amateur unskilled player will not beat the highest skilled players. In Poker an amateur could get lucky and beat out a pro. So my point is; there is luck involved, I am just wondering what is the ratio.

[greatwhite 0]

Over time if you play perfect poker it is 99.9999999...% skill. You have to consider the fact that the perfect player could not get any cards his whole life. Although it is more likely for the sun to burn out before that happens, it's still possible. No matter how good you are it is possible to lose a trillion hands in a row mathematically.

[rog 0]

pretty simple really. 1 hand is probably close to 100% luck. %skill approaches 100% as hands played approaches infinity. The poll question is meaningless.

[econ_tim 0]

38.54654321695498465132165469479847654143649678746411324654987465413216546547987653431324165467984654652146354579684654981653455736319848065132460840645646808087687456453708156677056135246570

[lboarts 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

[THIR13EN 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

When you say there are names at the top every week. It’s because these guys play every week. You think the same amateurs play every week and as many tournaments as the pro's? The amateur players do not have the money or the backers to play in every tournament, like the pro's do.You think there are some guys who have been playing in the WSOP for the last 20+ yrs and we have never heard of them? Are they just are not skilled enough to win 1 or make a final table?There really is no other game in the world were the "lesser skilled" player can beat a "higher "skilled" player. Only games that this will happen are in gambling type games, such as Poker, blackjack, and etc...So when you talk about "IN THE LONG RUN" its really just Bull Sh*t, because an amateur player does not play in the long run. He just plays a couple of tournaments and may win 1 where a pro plays in hundreds of tournaments and wins 2-4 and makes a couple of final tables BIG F'ing deal.

[lboarts 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

When you say there are names at the top every week. It’s because these guys play every week. You think the same amateurs play every week and as many tournaments as the pro's? The amateur players do not have the money or the backers to play in every tournament, like the pro's do.You think there are some guys who have been playing in the WSOP for the last 20+ yrs and we have never heard of them? Are they just are not skilled enough to win 1 or make a final table?There really is no other game in the world were the "lesser skilled" player can beat a "higher "skilled" player. Only games that this will happen are in gambling type games, such as Poker, blackjack, and etc...So when you talk about "IN THE LONG RUN" its really just Bull Sh*t, because an amateur player does not play in the long run. He just plays a couple of tournaments and may win 1 where a pro plays a hundred tournaments and wins 2 and makes a couple of final tables BIG F'ing deal.

Ummmmmmmm, whatever. :wall:

[alf13 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

On the first part...yes...they are luckier.....they also play alot more tourney's than everybody else....that combined with alot of skill....makes them the leaders in those standings.On the second part.....Tournament poker does not resemble a Cash Game in the slightest...it is two different things. The Luck factor in a tournament is massive....try around 80%....I have played poorly in a tourney and finished at the final table....I have then played brilliantly and finished out of the money...do you know why? You guessed it.....I was lucky in the first instance and unlucky in the other.

[THIR13EN 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

When you say there are names at the top every week. It’s because these guys play every week. You think the same amateurs play every week and as many tournaments as the pro's? The amateur players do not have the money or the backers to play in every tournament, like the pro's do.You think there are some guys who have been playing in the WSOP for the last 20+ yrs and we have never heard of them? Are they just are not skilled enough to win 1 or make a final table?There really is no other game in the world were the "lesser skilled" player can beat a "higher "skilled" player. Only games that this will happen are in gambling type games, such as Poker, blackjack, and etc...So when you talk about "IN THE LONG RUN" its really just Bull Sh*t, because an amateur player does not play in the long run. He just plays a couple of tournaments and may win 1 where a pro plays a hundred tournaments and wins 2 and makes a couple of final tables BIG F'ing deal.

Ummmmmmmm, whatever. :wall:

Yeah, thats a beautiful come back. Oh and what Valley are you from girl?

[JaysonWeber 0]

come on :roll: i refuse to dignify that question with an answer

[lboarts 0]

If you take a look at the tlb leaders on various sites, you'll notice the same names at the top every week, with a few odd ones sprinkled in here and there. Why are these names that are consistently at the top there every week? Are they luckier than everyone else, or are they more skilled?If you look at tournament vs cash games, where 1 tournament = 1 cash game session, I would submit the luck to skill ratio is roughly equivalent. There may be slightly more luck involved in tournaments due to the "no reload" aspect, but in the long run it is negligible, IMHO.

On the first part...yes...they are luckier.....they also play alot more tourney's than everybody else....that combined with alot of skill....makes them the leaders in those standings.On the second part.....Tournament poker does not resemble a Cash Game in the slightest...it is two different things. The Luck factor in a tournament is massive....try around 80%....I have played poorly in a tourney and finished at the final table....I have then played brilliantly and finished out of the money...do you know why? You guessed it.....I was lucky in the first instance and unlucky in the other.

Your point of view is, I believe, in line with th1eren's. However, you spelled it out much better, so I will refrain from beating my head against the wall.Alf, I believe your entire post here failed to recognize "the long run". But I believe we can agree to disagree on this, especially the 80% thing.

[alf13 0]

Your point of view is, I believe, in line with th1eren's. However, you spelled it out much better, so I will refrain from beating my head against the wall.Alf, I believe your entire post here failed to recognize "the long run". But I believe we can agree to disagree on this, especially the 80% thing.

In any INDIVIDUAL Tourney...yes...the luck factor is at 80%.I have seen it with my own eyes...I was at a table once (live) where there was the worst player I had ever seen was cleaning up....they guy new crap and just kept getting smacked with the deck....the guy had 15k in chips...30 minutes into the tourney...and we started with 2500....I picked up AQ ......I raise...The guy called (he called everything and kept calling till he made a hand...)...The flop came A93.....I immediately saw that he had interest in the flop.....I moved in for 9k....Why? Because I knew that he would call with an A5 or so...because he was bad.....well...he called with 97...(second pair!)....he then caught a 7 on the turn...and I lost....This guy had just learned how to play about 2 weeks before that tourney....this guy made the final table and eliminated some of the best players we had there....he had ammassed a massive chip lead and then blew it all when their where 4 players left.....Is this guy skilled? See my point?I play alot of MTT's live and you see it all the time....you see the final table and you can spot....The good player, The poker addict, a few run of the mill Lag's....another decent player...and then two total idiots.How did those idiots make the final table? Yep...you guessed it.MTT's are 80% luck.

[lboarts 0]

Your point of view is, I believe, in line with th1eren's. However, you spelled it out much better, so I will refrain from beating my head against the wall.Alf, I believe your entire post here failed to recognize "the long run". But I believe we can agree to disagree on this, especially the 80% thing.

In any INDIVIDUAL Tourney...yes...the luck factor is at 80%.I have seen it with my own eyes...I was at a table once (live) where there was the worst player I had ever seen was cleaning up....they guy new crap and just kept getting smacked with the deck....the guy had 15k in chips...30 minutes into the tourney...and we started with 2500....I picked up AQ ......I raise...The guy called (he called everything and kept calling till he made a hand...)...The flop came A93.....I immediately saw that he had interest in the flop.....I moved in for 9k....Why? Because I knew that he would call with an A5 or so...because he was bad.....well...he called with 97...(second pair!)....he then caught a 7 on the turn...and I lost....This guy had just learned how to play about 2 weeks before that tourney....this guy made the final table and eliminated some of the best players we had there....he had ammassed a massive chip lead and then blew it all when their where 4 players left.....Is this guy skilled? See my point?I play alot of MTT's live and you see it all the time....you see the final table and you can spot....The good player, The poker addict, a few run of the mill Lag's....another decent player...and then two total idiots.How did those idiots make the final table? Yep...you guessed it.MTT's are 80% luck.

I agree there is an element of luck involved in MTTs, but 80%? That's a tad high, IMHO, and no amount of bad beat stories can convince me otherwise.