strong but not premium hands in the bb with ++limper

[fatmanonguitar 0]

This question can apply to NL cash games or tournaments.Any of the following hands in the BB: A10, AJ, AQ, JJ, 1010Let's say at least 5 limpers. Do you always raise?The phenomenon I see online is that if there are many limpers, if the first 1 or 2 call your raise, they all do (the 97o who wanted to see a cheap flop, says "pot odds!" to himself without really knowing what that means). And suited aces and small pairs seem to never go away. In other words, it is difficult to isolate in this situation and you are out of position post-flop.How do most people play this?With JJ or AQ, I sometimes over-raise the pot hoping to get heads up or 3-way. With the others, I sometimes check and I'm not sure that this is profitable.

[Jadaki 0]

Any of the following hands in the BB: A10, AJ, AQ, JJ, 1010Let's say at least 5 limpers. Do you always raise?In other words, it is difficult to isolate in this situation and you are out of position post-flop.

Isolate?? Maybe it's a terminology thing, but thats not really something your looking to do against 5 limpers. Anyway, AQ, JJ, 1010, I am pushing this pot right here. I would probably bet about the size of the pot, maybe even a little more. Weather I take this pot down now, or I get a call I don't mind. Your way ahead here the majority of the time. The other hands it probably depends on weather I thought I could take it down there or not.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Any of the following hands in the BB: A10, AJ, AQ, JJ, 1010Let's say at least 5 limpers. Do you always raise?In other words, it is difficult to isolate in this situation and you are out of position post-flop.

Isolate?? Maybe it's a terminology thing, but thats not really something your looking to do against 5 limpers. Anyway, AQ, JJ, 1010, I am pushing this pot right here. I would probably bet about the size of the pot, maybe even a little more. Weather I take this pot down now, or I get a call I don't mind. Your way ahead here the majority of the time. The other hands it probably depends on weather I thought I could take it down there or not.

Isolating is exactly what I look to do with these hands for they play much better against fewer players. But it sounds like we play the hands you mention similarly.

[gobears 0]

It depends on the stacks of the players relative to the blinds. If it's early and the stacks are deep, I'll limp also and release if the flop doesn't hit me. I'll play JJ and 1010 like a middle pair in those situations and set them or forget them. AQ, AJ, A10, I'm hoping to hit two pair or a straight draw that I'll get to see cheaply. I don't like raising in these situations with Ax due to reverse implied odds and the fact that I'm OOP. If it's late in the tourney and the stacks are short, the implied odds wouldn't be there for the J's or 10's to hit a set. I would re-raise with those type of hands to try to isolate. AQ, I would raise also - probably just limp with AJ, A10.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

It depends on the stacks of the players relative to the blinds. If it's early and the stacks are deep, I'll limp also and release if the flop doesn't hit me. I'll play JJ and 1010 like a middle pair in those situations and set them or forget them. AQ, AJ, A10, I'm hoping to hit two pair or a straight draw that I'll get to see cheaply. I don't like raising in these situations with Ax due to reverse implied odds and the fact that I'm OOP. If it's late in the tourney and the stacks are short, the implied odds wouldn't be there for the J's or 10's to hit a set. I would re-raise with those type of hands to try to isolate. AQ, I would raise also - probably just limp with AJ, A10.

Judging by a few recent threads, it seems that we share the same poker brain. I don't think we could win any money off eachother!

[strategy 4]

This question can apply to NL cash games or tournaments.Any of the following hands in the BB: A10, AJ, AQ, JJ, 1010Let's say at least 5 limpers. Do you always raise?The phenomenon I see online is that if there are many limpers, if the first 1 or 2 call your raise, they all do (the 97o who wanted to see a cheap flop, says "pot odds!" to himself without really knowing what that means). And suited aces and small pairs seem to never go away. In other words, it is difficult to isolate in this situation and you are out of position post-flop.How do most people play this?With JJ or AQ, I sometimes over-raise the pot hoping to get heads up or 3-way. With the others, I sometimes check and I'm not sure that this is profitable.

I am not a NLHE cash game specialist, but I will say that raising with any of those hands from the big blind would be downright idiotic with 5 limpers in the pot. Play JJ the same way you would 22 in a NL game with deep stacks. You are rarely going to know where you are with ANY of those hands, and you are building a bigger pot against multiple opponents while out of position. See why that is bad?With regard to tournaments, the setup can change the answer 180 degrees. It is so dependent upon the situation that there is no real answer to your question.You reminded me of something that happened in a home game a few months ago. It was the last hand of a $20 buy in NLHE cash game at a friends house and I was playing reckless and having fun. Five handed, with one 25 cent blind, I'm on the button. By the time the action gets to me, three others all in. I call it, and we flip up the cards one at a time. UTG shows AK, MP has KK, CO has AQ, and I have 83o, shouting "pot odds!" as I flip my hand up. Somehow I just didn't get there.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

I am not a NLHE cash game specialist, but I will say that raising with any of those hands from the big blind would be downright idiotic with 5 limpers in the pot. Play JJ the same way you would 22 in a NL game with deep stacks. You are rarely going to know where you are with ANY of those hands, and you are building a bigger pot against multiple opponents while out of position. See why that is bad?

Sure I do. That's sort of what I implied in the OP. So you agree it's difficult to isolate. What about a big raise (overbet the pot, maybe even push) with JJ or AQ? Might be the only way to isolate. You saw the whole table act before you. Although, there are the few silly people who slowplay AA or something, what hand could a limper have that is better than JJ or AQ? Normally, AA, KK, AK and QQ don't limp and these are the only hands that can beat you. This is why I find checking and turning my JJ into a baby pair vs. pushing the pot a difficult decision.

[strategy 4]

Sure I do. That's sort of what I implied in the OP. So you agree it's difficult to isolate. What about a big raise (overbet the pot, maybe even push) with JJ or AQ? Might be the only way to isolate.

What's the reasoning behind wanting to isolate? With deep stacks, the gain from knocking a player or two out when you have JJ is minimal when you consider the losses you incur when you run into someone who limped with a better hand, or outflop you in some misleading fashion. There are so few flops with JJ that make it clear where you stand. Keeping the pot small with a hand like the ones you mentioned is optimal when you're in bad position.

You saw the whole table act before you. Although, there are the few silly people who slowplay AA or something, what hand could a limper have that is better than JJ or AQ? Normally, AA, KK, AK and QQ don't limp and these are the only hands that can beat you. This is why I find checking and turning my JJ into a baby pair vs. pushing the pot a difficult decision.

You're just making things more difficult for you later in the hand if you put more money in the pot preflop with these hands. It's true that the best players shine in marginal situations, but throwing yourself into them at every opportunity is no way to turn a profit.Why not be more specific on the tournament side of this? There are reasonable examples of situations out there that JJ is a clear fold from the BB and JJ is a clear push, as well.

[onlymyBgame 0]

It depends on the stacks of the players relative to the blinds. If it's early and the stacks are deep, I'll limp also and release if the flop doesn't hit me. I'll play JJ and 1010 like a middle pair in those situations and set them or forget them. AQ, AJ, A10, I'm hoping to hit two pair or a straight draw that I'll get to see cheaply. I don't like raising in these situations with Ax due to reverse implied odds and the fact that I'm OOP. If it's late in the tourney and the stacks are short, the implied odds wouldn't be there for the J's or 10's to hit a set. I would re-raise with those type of hands to try to isolate. AQ, I would raise also - probably just limp with AJ, A10.

i think you're approaching the situation in the wrong way here. playing deep stack nl, you should definitely be raising with JJ or TT to inflate the pot so that you can make more money if you flop a set.offsuit AQ, AJ and AT should be checked almost every time because you are looking to control pot size so that you can showdown your top pair, but when suited it is again advisable to frequently raise to inflate that pot so that your straights and flushes take down more money.also, in a limped pot to you, if you raise with JJ in teh bb, get 3 callers and the flop is 943r, why are you playing "set them or forget them?"

[gobears 0]

i think you're approaching the situation in the wrong way here. playing deep stack nl, you should definitely be raising with JJ or TT to inflate the pot so that you can make more money if you flop a set.offsuit AQ, AJ and AT should be checked almost every time because you are looking to control pot size so that you can showdown your top pair, but when suited it is again advisable to frequently raise to inflate that pot so that your straights and flushes take down more money.also, in a limped pot to you, if you raise with JJ in teh bb, get 3 callers and the flop is 943r, why are you playing "set them or forget them?"

It's not likely that I'm going to flop a set so why would I raise to inflate the pot with JJ or 1010? I want to see the flop as cheaply as possible and to keep more players in so that it's more likely that someone hits a 2nd best hand to my set.I'll set them or forget them with most flops. With a flop like 943r, I'll play on very carefully to hopefully a cheap showdown with top pair.

[strategy 4]

i think you're approaching the situation in the wrong way here.

Please try to be even remotely close to sensible when you are accusing someone of approaching the situation incorrectly. You are in essence telling us that we should make the pot bigger with these hands so we win a bigger pot when we improve in a big way.Investing money when behind, BAD. Putting money in ahead, GOOD. Go. Use your newfound powers for good and never for evil.

[copernicus 0]

its not a rebuy, and the starting stacks are fairly low compared to the blinds (eg a low buy in Party tourney) then I push here. It takes down the pot too often not too, and even if youre called you have a hand that isnt dominated by much.