how should i have played this hand

[PFunk 0]

I understand both of your points ML and Pfunk, and they are both wrong. Even in this case where you were up against a set and a flush you are still priced in. And in all but very few times you are at a way bigger advantage than you still have. ML, when you brought up Sklansky you neglected the fact that you are still putting in your money as a favorite (favorite in this case is having the highest percentage to win, not simply being over 50%), and you are still getting a great price with pot odds. If you can't understand how putting your money in with the best possible hand at the time makes sense then i don't think hold em is for you. Think about how often people will make this move with top pair or less. I would call that in a heartbeat, and i would simply be surprised, because it would be a very very rare occurance that i am up against a set and a flush draw. The thing is that i am still easily priced in. Folding the nuts is retarded, hopefully by now you guys that said to do this are either joking or just trying to keep this whole thread going by acting retarded. If you are not joking, then go play a good 50k hands or so and then come back, hopefully by that time you will have at least some idea what you are talking about.

I dont understand how anyone is priced into this hand...This guy checked his option in the BB...then checked after flopping a straight giving his opponents position and putting himself to a decision for all his money, with NOTHING in the pot in an UNRAISED pot....Please again, tell me how we are priced in here.If you cant take a look at this flop, then see two people bet at it with one going all-in, and see that someone is on a flush draw with 4 to the flush, then more power to you...but to me it would be rather obvious...Again, in this situation, i DONT check the flop and then fold to any bet...I make a huge overbet on the flop or simply move all in and decide that if someone does call and sucks out the flush, there's nothing I can do but pay it off, and oh well....But if someone checks the flop like this guy did, then someone moves in on me, I DO NOT CALL AND GO BROKE IN AN UNRAISED POT....I am only analyzing this play in this situation..I would have played it differently personally, and still have gone broke just like I did this weekend in a live tournament in similiar fashion....I bet out very big at my flopped set when it was checked to me with a flush draw on the board, and some idiot check-raises me for half his stack...I knew he was looking for the flush, and commit myself to the hand moving in on him, he calls immediately, and catches his flush on the river...Oh well, I'll be at the bar drinking Red Stripe-P.

[brian67 0]

We are priced in here because we have the best possible hand. Does that really need explaining? I think i covered that, but you are saying that you would fold to hands that are not as good as yours. You understand why you are making the dumbest srgument possible right? You cannot be putting your money in as a dog because you have the nuts. That is all regardless of the fact that you are only saying this knowing that you are up against a set and a flush draw. You cannot go into every hand thinking that you are up against the most dangerous possible hands. And you cannot go on folding the nuts to a raise like this, because as i said, folding here is ridiculous. You are a moron if you can really justify a fold here without fully knowing that one player holds a set and one holds a flush draw. And to take that further, you should still make that call. You will be getting great odds to triple up. But without that knowledge, a fold is out of the question. The thing that makes this entire debate even more ridiculous is the fact that i know that no one would fold in that spot, it's inconceivable to me.

[InertGrudge 0]

I think this is why "how should I have played this" posts only belong in the strat. section. This post has been home to some of the most horrible advice I have ever read...ever.Honestly, I don't care if there is a flush draw out there or not. If I flop the nut straight when there is a flush draw out there, you better believe I'm going to be all-in in one way another. I don't mind the check on this flop though. And, I agree...there is no better feeling than having two all-ins before you act when you have the nuts on the flop.

[brian67 0]

I think this is why "how should I have played this" posts only belong in the strat. section. This post has been home to some of the most horrible advice I have ever read...ever.Honestly, I don't care if there is a flush draw out there or not. If I flop the nut straight when there is a flush draw out there, you better believe I'm going to be all-in in one way another.I don't mind the check on this flop though. And, I agree...there is no better feeling than having two all-ins before you act when you have the nuts on the flop.

Agreed. And noobs have to stop trying to give out advice. Just to point this out to all that are all agreeing with eachother on folding here, notice that you are all noobs and even collectively you cannot come up with any sort of coherent or sensible poker knowledge.

[Pokerghost2 0]

of course u fold here! what are u trying to do win the tourn? the position of flopping the nuts and folding it is not realistic, unless its a super that pays out a certain number of seats and ur guaranteed a seat by folding after 2 or 3 go all in in front of u. folding the nuts is never a feasible play to me any other way.

[PFunk 0]

Brian67:Ive already mentioned numerous times that I probably wouldnt of folded here had I been playing the hand, because I would have played it differently...BUT IN THIS SITUATION I WOULD OF because he checked his option, has no money in the pot, and is in good position/standings to win the tournament without getting into a coinflip situation....I dont need to know the guys cards to assume he's 4 to a flush here when he moves all in, nor do I always assume someone would have to have this hand here, so in that respect you are right, you shouldnt always assume someone has the most dangerous hand out there...ie, just because an A is one the board doesnt mean someone has one, but statistically if there are a few people in the hand its a high percentage that someone does have one, highlighted in particular obviously if they are calling bets, and or raising/betting...But with this given flop, in this situation in an unraised pot, it would be very safe to assume someone is drawing to the flush when they move all in after a _minimal_ bet, and it is also very likely someone else who limped in might possibly have two pairs, which is what I might consider....That doesnt mean I automatically fold, but a fold would be much easier here since I have ZERO invested in the pot, I could feel comfortable with the fold.Also, I think you are confusing the definition of being "priced in" lol..... :wink: P.

[RDog 0]

Agreed. And noobs have to stop trying to give out advice. Just to point this out to all that are all agreeing with eachother on folding here' date=' notice that you are all noobs and even collectively you cannot come up with any sort of coherent or sensible poker knowledge.[/quote']Thanks for lumping all newbs together. Some of us actually have posted about how stupid we believe folding would be here.

[PFunk 0]

I think this is why "how should I have played this" posts only belong in the strat. section. This post has been home to some of the most horrible advice I have ever read...ever.Honestly, I don't care if there is a flush draw out there or not. If I flop the nut straight when there is a flush draw out there, you better believe I'm going to be all-in in one way another.I don't mind the check on this flop though. And, I agree...there is no better feeling than having two all-ins before you act when you have the nuts on the flop.

Agreed. And noobs have to stop trying to give out advice. Just to point this out to all that are all agreeing with eachother on folding here, notice that you are all noobs and even collectively you cannot come up with any sort of coherent or sensible poker knowledge.

Youre a moron....a noob?...Just because I have a low post count, I automatically have no clout or experience in poker strategy?...you sir, are the equivolent of a message board dooch bag....give me a freaking break. I gaurantee I have more experience and history playing NL then you do.

[Nutcracker 0]

So, PFunk, according to your logic, the following situation is feasible and proper play.You have AA in the sb. It's folded around to you, so you just limp, hoping to induce action. Let's not debate why you made this play, but let's assume you did. Now, the flop comes down A93, 2 diamonds. You check (again, don't debate this), and your opponent goes all in. You fold since he probably has a flush draw.Do you realize how stupid you are yet, or is it going to take more convincing?And btw, being priced in.. I think you don't understand the definition. He was getting about 2:1 on his money and would likely be a 2:1 favorite. That's called being priced in and it's called being a fool to pass up that offer. If you think that's a bad bet, I'll run hot and cold with you with my AK vs. your 23 all day long if you give me 2:1 odds on top of it.

[Pokerghost2 0]

Brian67:Ive already mentioned numerous times that I probably wouldnt of folded here had I been playing the hand, because I would have played it differently...BUT IN THIS SITUATION I WOULD OF because he checked his option, has no money in the pot, and is in good position/standings to win the tournament without getting into a coinflip situation....I dont need to know the guys cards to assume he's 4 to a flush here when he moves all in, nor do I always assume someone would have to have this hand here, so in that respect you are right, you shouldnt always assume someone has the most dangerous hand out there...ie, just because an A is one the board doesnt mean someone has one, but its a high percentage that someone does.But with this given flop, in this situation in an unraised pot, it would be very safe to assume someone is drawing to the flush when they move all in after a _minimal_ bet, and it is also very likely someone else who limped in might possibly have two pairs, which is what I might consider....That doesnt mean I automatically fold, but a fold would be much easier here since I have ZERO invested in the pot, I could feel comfortable with the fold.Also, I think you are confusing the definition of being "priced in" lol..... :wink: please dont tell me that u think u will win a tourn when u can trap a guy for all his chips holding the nuts and u fold. that is the very definition of weak tight.P.

[PFunk 0]

So, PFunk, according to your logic, the following situation is feasible and proper play.You have AA in the sb. It's folded around to you, so you just limp, hoping to induce action. Let's not debate why you made this play, but let's assume you did. Now, the flop comes down A93, 2 diamonds. You check (again, don't debate this), and your opponent goes all in. You fold since he probably has a flush draw.Do you realize how stupid you are yet, or is it going to take more convincing?And btw, being priced in.. I think you don't understand the definition. He was getting about 2:1 on his money and would likely be a 2:1 favorite. That's called being priced in and it's called being a fool to pass up that offer. If you think that's a bad bet, I'll run hot and cold with you with my AK vs. your 23 all day long if you give me 2:1 odds on top of it.

I would never limp with pocket AA's in that situation....or ever period probablyI would never check the flop once I flopped trips, even with two suited cards on the board (particularly if there were a flush draw, never check)Iw would be hard (very hard) for me to fold trips AA's in almost any situation.Being priced in to ME means actually already having money in the pot, and calling an insubstantial amount more, only to win alot.....Perhaps I am wrong on this definition, but thats how I take it...

[brian67 0]

Sorry RDog, but you know what i'm getting at. I didn't mean it as in all noobs are morons, but rather that when one of them says something completely retarded like folding the nuts there are a handfull of noobs that jump in and applaud him for his great strategy. Obviously i do not mean that all noobs are morons, because clearly not everyone that is new to this forum is completely without any poker knowledge.

[Nutcracker 0]

So, PFunk, according to your logic, the following situation is feasible and proper play.You have AA in the sb. It's folded around to you, so you just limp, hoping to induce action. Let's not debate why you made this play, but let's assume you did. Now, the flop comes down A93, 2 diamonds. You check (again, don't debate this), and your opponent goes all in. You fold since he probably has a flush draw.Do you realize how stupid you are yet, or is it going to take more convincing?And btw, being priced in.. I think you don't understand the definition. He was getting about 2:1 on his money and would likely be a 2:1 favorite. That's called being priced in and it's called being a fool to pass up that offer. If you think that's a bad bet, I'll run hot and cold with you with my AK vs. your 23 all day long if you give me 2:1 odds on top of it.

I would never limp with pocket AA's in that situation....or ever period probablyI would never check the flop once I flopped trips, even with two suited cards on the board (particularly if there were a flush draw, never check)Iw would be hard (very hard) for me to fold trips AA's in almost any situation.Being priced in to ME means actually already having money in the pot, and calling an insubstantial amount more, only to win alot.....Perhaps I am wrong on this definition, but thats how I take it...

Hey dumbfuck, not once, but twice I said to not debate how the hand had played out, because it needed to play out like that to be analogous. So, don't debate that. But are you saying that you wouldn't fold trip As in almost any situation, but you'd fold a flopped nut straight? That's utterly ridiculous.

[PFunk 0]

You guys all have poker figured out, thats why you are on an internet message board talking shit to all us "noobs" who dont know how to play poker since we dont have near as much posts as you, nor have we been registered here for as long...therefore no way could we possibly know what we are talking about, plus we DISAGREE with you and some of your other internet friends on here occasionally...We dont know crap!Remember: if everybody played the same, poker wouldnt be poker, nor would it be fun and interesting....You learn something new everytime you play, and its always different, so with each situation it is hard to say I would do this, or I would do that....NOBODY is right here, they are only opinions given this SPECIFIC situation...I have given mine based on the information given, and if you want to be an uptight a-hole about mine, go ahead......PeaceP.

[PFunk 0]

So, PFunk, according to your logic, the following situation is feasible and proper play.You have AA in the sb. It's folded around to you, so you just limp, hoping to induce action. Let's not debate why you made this play, but let's assume you did. Now, the flop comes down A93, 2 diamonds. You check (again, don't debate this), and your opponent goes all in. You fold since he probably has a flush draw.Do you realize how stupid you are yet, or is it going to take more convincing?And btw, being priced in.. I think you don't understand the definition. He was getting about 2:1 on his money and would likely be a 2:1 favorite. That's called being priced in and it's called being a fool to pass up that offer. If you think that's a bad bet, I'll run hot and cold with you with my AK vs. your 23 all day long if you give me 2:1 odds on top of it.

I would never limp with pocket AA's in that situation....or ever period probablyI would never check the flop once I flopped trips, even with two suited cards on the board (particularly if there were a flush draw, never check)Iw would be hard (very hard) for me to fold trips AA's in almost any situation.Being priced in to ME means actually already having money in the pot, and calling an insubstantial amount more, only to win alot.....Perhaps I am wrong on this definition, but thats how I take it...

Hey dumbfuck, not once, but twice I said to not debate how the hand had played out, because it needed to play out like that to be analogous. So, don't debate that. But are you saying that you wouldn't fold trip As in almost any situation, but you'd fold a flopped nut straight? That's utterly ridiculous.

If I played that badly to begin the hand with...Yes i would fold...and I probably would deserve to lose that hand for playing it that pathetically....happy?.....but I dont, nor would I play like that so I dont see your point really..

[brian67 0]

Actually Pfunk, no matter how much you have invested in the pot you are still "priced in" as there is no possible way that you are going into the pot as an underdog. So regardless of whether you have 5 chips in the pot or 5000, you are "priced in." Understand? Honestly i can't believe that i'm even arguing about calling with the nuts. I think Pfunk and ML are really JFarrel and akaconditioner. You guys really had me goin there.

[potpumper43 0]

The OP stated that he was in 3rd chip position 4 headed in a STT. Three-headed at blinds of 200-400, there is 1200 in pot on flop. Seeing that he is 3rd in chips, he likely has 2000 or less chips. His hand is the nuts and with sb check, he needs to bet here. Any bet he makes he is still commited to play the pot with the nuts. So clearly, he needs to just bet all in. This puts the maximum pressure on his opponents, makes it clear that there are no moves/plays they can make. A +1200 chip swing at that level is not a tiny pot, it is more than 10% of the chips in play!In this specific example, it is possible that the result would have been the same, with all 3 hands involved. However, the all-in bet does raise the possibility that one of the two remaining players folds (likely the flush draw). If he gets one of the 2 hands to fold his equity is much better than against both draws obviously. The best way to eliminate opposing holdings is with strong betting.In a cash game, you want your opponent to call with their draw, but in a tournament, you want your opponent to fold their draw.

[Pokerghost2 0]

You guys all have poker figured out, thats why you are on an internet message board talking censored to all us "noobs" who dont know how to play poker since we dont have near as much posts as you, nor have we been registered here for as long...therefore no way could we possibly know what we are talking about, plus we DISAGREE with you and some of your other internet friends on here occasionally...We dont know crap!Remember: if everybody played the same, poker wouldnt be poker, nor would it be fun and interesting....You learn something new everytime you play, and its always different, so with each situation it is hard to say I would do this, or I would do that....NOBODY is right here, they are only opinions given this SPECIFIC situation...I have given mine based on the information given, and if you want to be an uptight a-hole about mine, go ahead......PeaceP.

i could care less about ur post count, and i agree with u that a persons post count should be irrelevant, however, this is fact not opinion, u dont fold the nuts in that spot. its a bad play. if u get drawn out on u just live with the results.

[brian67 0]

How the hell can you be arguing that you would fold the nut straight but under no circumstance fold trip aces? You know what i take it back, i think you are actually the one person on earth that is dumber than JFarrel.

[PFunk 0]

Brian67: Im sure you will go far with your attitude, so I weouldnt listen to anything I say....Keep thinking inside the box, seems to suit you well.....And for the record ONE MORE TIME, I probably would of gone broke on this hand with my style of play....I would not of checked that flop like was done here, and once I put in my over sized bet and got raised all in, i would have been "priced in" to call more than likely and would have easily done so....Just like I did this weekend in a tournament in which I gave a similiar situtation of....Had I been naive enough to check flopping a straight in the given situation, once someone put me to the test for all my chips when I had no money in the pot and someone else was involved as well, and I almost had this tournament in the bag, I would have folded....Maybe you all can't see the difference here, but this is just my analysis-

[PFunk 0]

You guys all have poker figured out, thats why you are on an internet message board talking censored to all us "noobs" who dont know how to play poker since we dont have near as much posts as you, nor have we been registered here for as long...therefore no way could we possibly know what we are talking about, plus we DISAGREE with you and some of your other internet friends on here occasionally...We dont know crap!Remember: if everybody played the same, poker wouldnt be poker, nor would it be fun and interesting....You learn something new everytime you play, and its always different, so with each situation it is hard to say I would do this, or I would do that....NOBODY is right here, they are only opinions given this SPECIFIC situation...I have given mine based on the information given, and if you want to be an uptight a-hole about mine, go ahead......PeaceP.

i could care less about ur post count, and i agree with u that a persons post count should be irrelevant, however, this is fact not opinion, u dont fold the nuts in that spot. its a bad play. if u get drawn out on u just live with the results.

So you agree to check the flop once you flopped the "nut" straight????Thats what I dont like, and once someone puts me to a test for all my chips on my "nut" straight i could easily consider a fold here when i am not that invested....

[brian67 0]

You learn something new everytime you play, and its always different, so with each situation it is hard to say I would do this, or I would do that....NOBODY is right here, they are only opinions given this SPECIFIC situation

Poker most certainly is situational, and here we were given a situation where we hold the nuts and have a chance to get two calls. I think your problem is that you don't understand that even optimal play doesn't win every hand, but that you are in essence making money by making that play. It's called expectancy theory. If you get outdrawn, then it sucks, but not only will you be up against much worse draws more than not, but even in this case where you are against the two most dangerous hands, you were still ahead. And there is also the fact that if you had made this argument without knowing both the hands facing you and the outcome you would not be arguing this way at all.

[PFunk 0]

You learn something new everytime you play, and its always different, so with each situation it is hard to say I would do this, or I would do that....NOBODY is right here, they are only opinions given this SPECIFIC situation

Poker most certainly is situational, and here we were given a situation where we hold the nuts and have a chance to get two calls. I think your problem is that you don't understand that even optimal play doesn't win every hand, but that you are in essence making money by making that play. It's called expectancy theory. If you get outdrawn, then it sucks, but not only will you be up against much worse draws more than not, but even in this case where you are against the two most dangerous hands, you were still ahead. And there is also the fact that if you had made this argument without knowing both the hands facing you and the outcome you would not be arguing this way at all.

I certainly know that optimal play doesnt win every hand...give some freaking credit here guy, geez...I realize this is a good situation to be in...flopping the straight with 2 possible callers in a 4 handed game to win the tournament...I would call this bet ALL DAY....BUT, you dont follow one bad play up with another...By checking the flopped straight with the flush draw being so heavy, then calling someones all in behind yours, you are deserving of losing the hand in my opinion, and a fold would most certainly not be out of the question....If a big raise would have been put in by me, or if I moved all in on the flop and then someone moves in you and you lose, I would feel much better about it personally, but thats just me.....If I am an idiot to you all for thinking this way, then so be it-P.

[brian67 0]

So you agree to check the flop once you flopped the "nut" straight????Thats what I dont like, and once someone puts me to a test for all my chips on my "nut" straight i could easily consider a fold here when i am not that invested....

And there it is. When put to the "test" you would consider folding the nuts. Sorry to break this to you but that really isn't a test, if you fold there you are certainly folding to a lesser hand.

[PFunk 0]

So you agree to check the flop once you flopped the "nut" straight????Thats what I dont like' date=' and once someone puts me to a test for all my chips on my "nut" straight i could easily consider a fold here when i am not that invested....[/quote']And there it is. When put to the "test" you would consider folding the nuts. Sorry to break this to you but that really isn't a test, if you fold there you are certainly folding to a lesser hand.

were analyzying the OP's hand and situation....I never fold the "nuts", even when you might likely end up with the "baby nuts", or even god forbid "the ovaries"....I dont mind getting my money in with the best hand, and sometimes it loses, but whatever..."thats poker"...And this thread is getting tiring with me having to defend myself every post....Have fun lady's-