how should i have played this hand

[augmented 0]

unfortunately not, but porcupinetree.com has a couple videos of them i think, and also, if your computer can take the heat, theres a video of a live concert of theirs in baltimore. its an hour and 35 minutes, so i don't know if it'll work out for your comp, but listening to them live is just as good as listening to them in real life, theyre one of those bands that sings in tune and doesnt miss notes in concert.http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/view?&...734&pld=690x520

[Loismustdie 0]

I like a feeler bet here in most situations for two reasons.1) I want get some information where the other players stand.2) I don't want to give the flush/trips a free card.I suppose I could check in some rare instances, if there is an ultra-aggro player that nearly always bets if it's checked to him being one.Most of the time here, I'm leading out though, certainly not moving in, but I'm putting a feeler out there.

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record: A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. B. If I happened to misclick and check and I realize that someone is going out or severely crippled and I am moving up one spot and still with a decent stack, I fold. This hand is way to beatable, and with my aggressive play I don't even need a hand most of the time at a final table, so why get my money in here when I am guaranteed more money by folding and I can definitely outplay these guys and win anyways? I am not, repeat not taking a coinflip in this situation. For me, it is a clear fold with all of the information that is available to me at the time. C. I agree with whoever made the observation that the OP was relatively new and probably was better off just taking the coinflip and hoping for the best. My assesment was based on my game and what I would consider for me. If its a 5 dollar buy in and the difference means squat? I call. If it's a 200 dollar buy in and the difference is 4,000 dollars, I fold and keep myself in the game to go for first.

[Loismustdie 0]

i stopped reading on the 2nd page because this censored has made me SOOOOOOOOOO angry!!!!!!!!!!!YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!It's the Mother censored NUTS!!!!!It's the NUTS!!!!!!You have the best possible handthe bestnobody can beat you at this point!!!!!!!!!!!!!   that is guaranteedok,   so if you are 100% sure that you have everyone beat............I wonder what you do!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?YOU F"ING CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOD!!!!!!YOU HAVE THE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!end of story :x  :x  :x  :x  :!:  :!:  :!:

If I had a A high flush on the flop I check and call any all ins. Then I am way ahead and not just clinging to a simple straight. It is a lot less of a coinflip. I understand what everyone is aying that you get your money in right now but sometimes the first impulse, the gambler in us is just not the best way. This is one of those instances.

[looshle 6]

A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. You wouldn't go all in, you might make a healthy bet but you certainly wouldn't go all in. You're only saying that because you know what hands they held.

[augmented 0]

I like a feeler bet here in most situations for two reasons.1) I want get some information where the other players stand.2) I don't want to give the flush/trips a free card.I suppose I could check in some rare instances, if there is an ultra-aggro player that nearly always bets if it's checked to him being one.Most of the time here, I'm leading out though, certainly not moving in, but I'm putting a feeler out there.

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record: A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. B. If I happened to misclick and check and I realize that someone is going out or severely crippled and I am moving up one spot and still with a decent stack, I fold. This hand is way to beatable, and with my aggressive play I don't even need a hand most of the time at a final table, so why get my money in here when I am guaranteed more money by folding and I can definitely outplay these guys and win anyways? I am not, repeat not taking a coinflip in this situation. For me, it is a clear fold with all of the information that is available to me at the time. C. I agree with whoever made the observation that the OP was relatively new and probably was better off just taking the coinflip and hoping for the best. My assesment was based on my game and what I would consider for me. If its a 5 dollar buy in and the difference means squat? I call. If it's a 200 dollar buy in and the difference is 4,000 dollars, I fold and keep myself in the game to go for first.

i'll start with A. in this hand, theres not much of a difference between calling an all in bet and pushing all in. you are going to get action from both of them either way, so you might as well check and save yourself money when the turn is scary. secondly, going all in is simply retarded when the two others limped with say, QT of spades and A5. here, they both fold and you've won a tiny ass pot, when if the turn was a 5, T, Q, or A, you would get much more action when you still have a stranglehold on the hand. All in sucks. you don't wanna win a small pot. you wanna win a big pot. B. you DONT PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO MOVE UP IN PAY. YOU PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO WIN. folding the nuts is not an option. Even in the worst-case scenario like this one, where you are up against 2 heavy redraws, calling is correct. and how often are they gonna have the 2 best possible hands against you? again, its like folding 88 on an AK8 board with a little preflop action because you might be up against kings or aces, and its better to inch up. to say that your straight is probably a coinflip is complete lunacy. COMPLETE LUNACY. and even if it is a coinflip, you should still call. fuck moving up a spot. bust 2 people. you have the nuts.C. for the love of god, if the stakes you are playing for change the way you play a certain hand, you are playing for way too much. poker tournaments are poker tournaments. poker doesn't depend on the amount of money at stake. horrible point.again, i am right and you are wrong. bring it man. i will shoot you down all night.

[Dixie Wrecked 0]

You can fold DEEZ nutz!

[Spademan 94]

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record:

Whoops!I gave a chance because you're from Arizona' date=' but you had to go and get untardable.I make a feeler bet to find out how much I can extract with my nut straight' date=' fu[b''][/b]cktard.Not because I'm afraid I'm behind.You are wrong here, period, end of story.Nice try though, I admire your balls for stepping up to get beat down.Take this moment to become a better tournament player, or not... I no longer care, despite your geography.

[Loismustdie 0]

A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. You wouldn't go all in, you might make a healthy bet but you certainly wouldn't go all in. You're only saying that because you know what hands they held.

Final table down to 4 why get cute? I want to make these guys pay to make a dumb choice so if I am first to act I just push all in, that way, they have to make the decision to chase. Right now the blinds are high enough to justify this move.

[Loismustdie 0]

I like a feeler bet here in most situations for two reasons.1) I want get some information where the other players stand.2) I don't want to give the flush/trips a free card.I suppose I could check in some rare instances, if there is an ultra-aggro player that nearly always bets if it's checked to him being one.Most of the time here, I'm leading out though, certainly not moving in, but I'm putting a feeler out there.

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record: A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. B. If I happened to misclick and check and I realize that someone is going out or severely crippled and I am moving up one spot and still with a decent stack, I fold. This hand is way to beatable, and with my aggressive play I don't even need a hand most of the time at a final table, so why get my money in here when I am guaranteed more money by folding and I can definitely outplay these guys and win anyways? I am not, repeat not taking a coinflip in this situation. For me, it is a clear fold with all of the information that is available to me at the time. C. I agree with whoever made the observation that the OP was relatively new and probably was better off just taking the coinflip and hoping for the best. My assesment was based on my game and what I would consider for me. If its a 5 dollar buy in and the difference means squat? I call. If it's a 200 dollar buy in and the difference is 4,000 dollars, I fold and keep myself in the game to go for first.

i'll start with A. in this hand, theres not much of a difference between calling an all in bet and pushing all in. you are going to get action from both of them either way, so you might as well check and save yourself money when the turn is scary. secondly, going all in is simply retarded when the two others limped with say, QT of spades and A5. here, they both fold and you've won a tiny ass pot, when if the turn was a 5, T, Q, or A, you would get much more action when you still have a stranglehold on the hand. All in sucks. you don't wanna win a small pot. you wanna win a big pot. B. you DONT PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO MOVE UP IN PAY. YOU PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO WIN. folding the nuts is not an option. Even in the worst-case scenario like this one, where you are up against 2 heavy redraws, calling is correct. and how often are they gonna have the 2 best possible hands against you? again, its like folding 88 on an AK8 board with a little preflop action because you might be up against kings or aces, and its better to inch up. to say that your straight is probably a coinflip is complete lunacy. COMPLETE LUNACY. and even if it is a coinflip, you should still call. fuck moving up a spot. bust 2 people. you have the nuts.C. for the love of god, if the stakes you are playing for change the way you play a certain hand, you are playing for way too much. poker tournaments are poker tournaments. poker doesn't depend on the amount of money at stake. horrible point.again, i am right and you are wrong. bring it man. i will shoot you down all night.

Actually, with tournament equity figured in the numbers are a little in favor of folding. NOBODY EVER SAID THIS AN EASY CALL FOR MOST PEOPLE IT IS NOT, THIS IS ADVANCED PLAY WHERE I KNOW I DO NOT NEED TO TAKE THIS COINFLIP AND I AM GUARANTEED MORE MONEY BY NOT DOING SO. THE GOAL OF THE TOUNAMENT IS TO WIN AND WIN MORE MONEY, I HAVE LOST NOTHING AND GAINED SOMETHING BY FOLDING HERE. If you suck and all you want is coinflips then by all means do it. With everything taken into account, I fold. Think of it this way- I spent 3 hours in this tournement and this is the hand I want to go to bat with, where I only win 4 out of ten times? HELL NO. END OF STORY.

[Loismustdie 0]

I like a feeler bet here in most situations for two reasons.1) I want get some information where the other players stand.2) I don't want to give the flush/trips a free card.I suppose I could check in some rare instances, if there is an ultra-aggro player that nearly always bets if it's checked to him being one.Most of the time here, I'm leading out though, certainly not moving in, but I'm putting a feeler out there.

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record: A. I never would have checked. I would have pushed all in and either taken the pot right there or made the other guys pay alot to chase. This puts this decision on them not me. B. If I happened to misclick and check and I realize that someone is going out or severely crippled and I am moving up one spot and still with a decent stack, I fold. This hand is way to beatable, and with my aggressive play I don't even need a hand most of the time at a final table, so why get my money in here when I am guaranteed more money by folding and I can definitely outplay these guys and win anyways? I am not, repeat not taking a coinflip in this situation. For me, it is a clear fold with all of the information that is available to me at the time. C. I agree with whoever made the observation that the OP was relatively new and probably was better off just taking the coinflip and hoping for the best. My assesment was based on my game and what I would consider for me. If its a 5 dollar buy in and the difference means squat? I call. If it's a 200 dollar buy in and the difference is 4,000 dollars, I fold and keep myself in the game to go for first.

i'll start with A. in this hand, theres not much of a difference between calling an all in bet and pushing all in. you are going to get action from both of them either way, so you might as well check and save yourself money when the turn is scary. secondly, going all in is simply retarded when the two others limped with say, QT of spades and A5. here, they both fold and you've won a tiny ass pot, when if the turn was a 5, T, Q, or A, you would get much more action when you still have a stranglehold on the hand. All in sucks. you don't wanna win a small pot. you wanna win a big pot. B. you DONT PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO MOVE UP IN PAY. YOU PLAY TOURNAMENTS TO WIN. folding the nuts is not an option. Even in the worst-case scenario like this one, where you are up against 2 heavy redraws, calling is correct. and how often are they gonna have the 2 best possible hands against you? again, its like folding 88 on an AK8 board with a little preflop action because you might be up against kings or aces, and its better to inch up. to say that your straight is probably a coinflip is complete lunacy. COMPLETE LUNACY. and even if it is a coinflip, you should still call. fuck moving up a spot. bust 2 people. you have the nuts.C. for the love of god, if the stakes you are playing for change the way you play a certain hand, you are playing for way too much. poker tournaments are poker tournaments. poker doesn't depend on the amount of money at stake. horrible point.again, i am right and you are wrong. bring it man. i will shoot you down all night.

Actually, your wrong- in tournaments the choices you make sometimes are affected by the possible money at at stake, if it is a cash game it is a clear call and I said that earlier.

[Loismustdie 0]

This is where your I know your full of s hit. Why a feeler bet if your just going to call any all in bets anyways? You might as well check. For the record:

Whoops!I gave a chance because you're from Arizona' date=' but you had to go and get untardable.I make a feeler bet to find out how much I can extract with my nut straight' date=' fu[b''][/b]cktard.Not because I'm afraid I'm behind.You are wrong here, period, end of story.Nice try though, I admire your balls for stepping up to get beat down.Take this moment to become a better tournament player, or not... I no longer care, despite your geography.

As far as my balls go they are f ucking huge, and as far as getting beat down it has been clearly established that A. I would not have played it like the OP and B, If by some accident I did folding is not so bad. The math actually dictates this, so suck it.

[Loismustdie 0]

i stopped reading on the 2nd page because this censored has made me SOOOOOOOOOO angry!!!!!!!!!!!YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!It's the Mother censored NUTS!!!!!It's the NUTS!!!!!!You have the best possible handthe bestnobody can beat you at this point!!!!!!!!!!!!! that is guaranteedok, so if you are 100% sure that you have everyone beat............I wonder what you do!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?YOU F"ING CALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ALL IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GOD!!!!!!YOU HAVE THE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!end of story :x :x :x :x :!: :!: :!:

If I had a A high flush on the flop I check and call any all ins. Then I am way ahead and not just clinging to a simple straight. It is a lot less of a coinflip. I understand what everyone is aying that you get your money in right now but sometimes the first impulse, the gambler in us is just not the best way. This is one of those instances.

One more person who tells his girlfriend " But, I had the nuts!!! I was GUARANTEED TO WIN! I was, oh , a 40 to 6o underdog. Oops, I guess my initial assesment was wrong. Damn. hey, you know something? If I would have just folded I would have made 4,000 dollars more, maybe even won the thing. F uck, well at least I got it in with the best hand. That's poker. "

[Nutcracker 0]

Actually, with tournament equity figured in the numbers are a little in favor of folding.

Yes, if you know exactly what your opponents have. Seriously, shut the **** up before you embarrass yourself more, Lois. You're wrong. It's an easy call. This was a worst case scenario and you lose like 1.5% tournament equity by calling. In the standard situation, you probably gain around 10% or more tournament equity by calling, and that is absolutely huge. You must really hate money if you'd fold here.Here's an analogy that works quite well here. Let's say you're playing a tournament and you're down to 3 people, all even on chips. A player moves all in preflop and the other folds. You look down at QQ. Now, before you call, the player has a complete mind**** moment and says "I don't have AA or KK". Lucky for you, he was hooked up to a polygraph, so you know he is telling the truth. Do you call? You have a slight chance of being at a coinflip and a good chance at being in very good shape.

[Nutcracker 0]

I wish the OP would come back and say he was just kidding. His opponents had a OESD and TPTK and he held up as a 2:1 favorite and won the thing. Then results based thinking dumbasses like Loismustdie could change their story and say it was a great call.

[trippkc 0]

Lois, you're wrong, please just admit it. You're whole thinking is based on the fact that you know the other 2 hands. Please look at how this hand played out. The button limps, the SB completes, the BB checks. There is no reason to think this board hit all 3 players. Seriously, this happened to be the worst case scenario because it hit all 3 players almost perfectly. The SB checks, no big deal, most likely is weak. You flop nut straight, you check, which I don't like, but it is OK. There is 1200 in the pot and dealer bets the pot. There is no real reason to even give him credit for a draw because that late in a tournament if it is gonna check to you on the button, it is an auto-bet, if someone comes over the top it is an easy fold. The SB goes over the top all-in. Perfect. We don't know if the button is priced in or not, but most times the dealer is gonna fold without the nuts, so we put it all-in against the SB. You have to stop calling ONE all-in a coinflip because the majority of the time this hand plays out you will be heads up and be a huge favorite. You advocate that with your aggressive play you can fold outplay your opponents later, but this is the weakest move I have ever heard. You can defend it all you want, but you're playing scared. You may not ever see a better spot to get in your money, and if you sit around and wait for quads you will get blinded away.

[brian67 0]

I knew there was a huge influx of morons here but i had no idea it was getting this bad. People are arguing that you should fold the nuts to a draw. Here's a thought, instead of you morons wasting your time posting on a poker forum, how about you go out and learn how to play first. Then after you have some idea what you are talking about you can come back and post all you want, then at least you won't be wasting everybody's time.

[augmented 0]

we should move this to strategy, hope DN one-a-day's it, and then prove how Loismustdie and all the other results-based idiots are complete fucktards, and then we could ban them.

[augmented 0]

I have TT, an early player limps and i limp, and the big blind checks. the flop comes AT2, and the blind checks and the limper goes all in. Call or fold? this isn't even a question.BUT LOOK, WE WERE WRONG. THE LIMPER HAD AA. WE SHOULD HAVE FOLDED. see why this is stupid? it's not an "easy fold" just because given a wild certain set of circumstances the tournament equity is SLIIIIIIGHTY leaning towards folding, but in every other case you have your opponent crushed. i can think of one example in which folding the 68 on a 579 flop is arguably "correct", but i can think of about 23572345 cases where calling is 1000 times more correct. this is not results-based thinking. this is looking at your cards, looking at the board, looking at your chips, and pushing them forward. that should be your thought process in this hand.

[MLMarkland 0]

Clearly, you can go either way with this, but I think it is a fold, but a really hard fold, and here's why ladies and gentlemen...Because you didn't take the initiative and push all-in.I'll refer to the Gap Concept (Sklansky, Tournament Poker) to back up, what I think is a somewhat intuitive but very difficult fold.If you push all-in, it is highly doubtful that both will call, neither of them having the nuts at that point in time. This moves you from an underdog to a favorite.If they push all-in, you have to give them credit for drawing hands that can possibly beat you, in this case exactly the hands they have, and in the worst case, one of the pushers has a complete freeroll against you with a made hand to split, and the best draw to the SF.Unless they're terrible players, you are the underdog against the two of them together. I don't want to put all my chips in when I'm the underdog at the final stage of a tournament, because I am confident I can take first more often than whoever survives the hand.On the other hand, I'd probably call anyways almost 50% of the time. So hey, either way.

[PFunk 0]

You people talking smack for my opinion or analysis of the hand are lame...So I have an opinion and style of play I execute, and yes, I play very tight, so what....It works well for me and I do well for myself most of the time....The fact of the matter is, this dude checked his flopped straight when he was first to act....Someone else bet, so you have to put them on two pair or a set, or the flush draw (if you think they have any kind of hand) then the other player moved all in...Well, NOW we know who has the flush draw, and now were pretty sure who either has a set, two pair, or is simply trying to steal the pot and has crap.....If he calls the all in, we know he has the set, or two pair.....This person playing the hand (no offense) made the mistake of not betting his hand to begin with, therefore in THIS case I would POSSIBLY fold....Had it been me playing?...Im making a huge overbet on the flop NO MATTER WHAT, or am even moving all in...If I would have checked and get moved all in though (which I would of NEVER done) then I might definetly fold.....The point of this is simply to let this more inexperienced player know that sometimes folding a big hand is ok in certain situations...Since he didnt bet his hand to begin with, I actually like the fold here.Plus, we all know how the hand turned out-P.

[brian67 0]

You people talking smack for my opinion or analysis of the hand are lame...So I have an opinion and style of play I execute, and yes, I play very tight, so what....It works well for me and I do well for myself most of the time....

You were talking about folding the nuts, your style cannot work well for you. You are talking about being so tight-passive that it's ridiculous. No offense, but you are talking out of your censored.

[MLMarkland 0]

You people talking smack for my opinion or analysis of the hand are lame...So I have an opinion and style of play I execute, and yes, I play very tight, so what....It works well for me and I do well for myself most of the time....

You were talking about folding the nuts, your style cannot work well for you. You are talking about being so tight-passive that it's ridiculous. No offense, but you are talking out of your censored.

He is not talking out of his caesnsosred. His point was, he never would've gotten himself into the situation of being faced with two all-ins with a made straight, with two to the flush on the board. He, as I would, would have pushed in first and forced someone else, probably the last actor to fold.He, and I, are both analyzing the situation based on the poor position in which the OP put himself. I would still call a tremendous amount of time here, but I would also fold sometimes, depending on how tight or loose I felt both first actors were.If they're both very tight, then I am an underdog... why would I put all of my chips in as an underdog? If they're both loose, or one is loose, then I'm more likely up against something like two flush draws, and can easily make the call.M

[PFunk 0]

Thank you ML for explaining....I dont need to defend my position anymore to idiots.....Some People here can be pretty dense-

[RDog 0]

All of this talk is centering on the fact that we know the cards of the other 2 players. For anyone who has played enough, especially online, you realize in this situation, many times you are against top pair-ace kicker, top pair-straight draw, etc. Sometimes amazes me what people will push all their chips with. As Spademan has said several times, in game, NO WAY you fold this hand. For those of you who read this as flush draw, set, every time, you are definitely losing money long run. Kind of the way Harrington describes those people who fold K's because they are sure they are up against A's. Long run you lose money, as great as you think you are the few times you make the correct laydown. I am sure Jean-Robert would be happy, "Excellent laydown, excellent".

[brian67 0]

I understand both of your points ML and Pfunk, and they are both wrong. Even in this case where you were up against a set and a flush you are still priced in. And in all but very few times you are at a way bigger advantage than you still have. ML, when you brought up Sklansky you neglected the fact that you are still putting in your money as a favorite (favorite in this case is having the highest percentage to win, not simply being over 50%), and you are still getting a great price with pot odds. If you can't understand how putting your money in with the best possible hand at the time makes sense then i don't think hold em is for you. Think about how often people will make this move with top pair or less. I would call that in a heartbeat, and i would simply be surprised, because it would be a very very rare occurance that i am up against a set and a flush draw. The thing is that i am still easily priced in. Folding the nuts is retarded, hopefully by now you guys that said to do this are either joking or just trying to keep this whole thread going by acting retarded. If you are not joking, then go play a good 50k hands or so and then come back, hopefully by that time you will have at least some idea what you are talking about.