how should i have played this hand

[Rasty 0]

BUT . . . everything changes if you factor in the possibility of OPEN folding.Think about that for a second, mathboys.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Because, unlike your after-the-fact-I-know-their-hole-cards analysis

Fair enough. I may be biased by hindsight. What can I do, the OP gave us the results.He asked how I would have played the hand differently? I would have bet out on the flop.My main point was that just because you have the best hand at the time or even the nuts, doesn't mean that you aren't a collective underdog in a multiway pot. This possibility, combined with the fact that he was on the bubble in a tournament (with what sounds like very loose opponents) just makes folding something to consider. I didn't say "clear fold".Don't be so god-damn arrogant and absolute. I'm sure you could learn something.He can't go back in time dude. This is analytic food for thought the next time he runs into similar situations in tournament play.

[looshle 6]

sometimes its ok to fold the nuts........ http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=13027&m_id=50but this is not one of those times, unless you put the opponent on 8d 6d which is of course impossible to put someone on

Yes in Omaha, which is a totally different game

[Spademan 94]

Don't be so god-damn arrogant and absolute.  I'm sure you could learn something.He can't go back in time dude.  This is analytic food for thought the next time he runs into similar situations in tournament play.

No-one said he can go back in time, wtf are you talking about?I answered his question in my first post, and that was that.And, telling me how or how not to god-damn be comes off pretty high horse, so, you counterfeit yourself on that point.Learn something? Sure. Always open to that.When you can give me the numbers that make folding here without absolutely knowing your opponents cards correct, in a regular payout structure, I'll learn.But you can't, so, you've got nothing to teach here bro'.

[keith crime 8]

You flopped the nuts.There are  only 3 hands you should fold to.Chances of them having the combinations of rag diamonds that you'd be worried about are remarkably slim.Obvious you should get your chips in here.

what are they 68d's?

[keith crime 8]

Calculation results from Poker Calculator 1.1.4.1Texas Hold'em, 903 combinations tested.Board: 5d9d7h x xHand | 8c6s | AdJd | 7s7c |------+--------------+--------------+--------------+Win | 342 | 236 | 321 |Draw | 4 | 4 | 4 |Lose | 557 | 663 | 578 |------+--------------+--------------+--------------+Win% | 38.02% | 26.28% | 35.7% |------+--------------+--------------+--------------+8c6s: Straight win: 342 draw: 4 lose: 557 AdJd: High Card win: 0 draw: 0 lose: 201 Pair win: 0 draw: 0 lose: 284 Two Pair win: 0 draw: 0 lose: 54 Three of a Kind win: 0 draw: 0 lose: 12 Straight win: 6 draw: 4 lose: 0 Flush win: 230 draw: 0 lose: 112 7s7c: Three of a Kind win: 0 draw: 0 lose: 573 Straight win: 0 draw: 4 lose: 5 Full House win: 279 draw: 0 lose: 0 Quads win: 42 draw: 0 lose: 0

[ChrisRichey 1]

and also h ow is your luck/momentum running at the time, and how is theirs...Are they catching and sucking out left and right?...Then you might wantt to back down....

I fail to see how this is relevent. Each hand is new and is in no way related to what has happened previously. Just because he caught runner-runner to hit his flush on the last hand, doesn't mean that he's now "hot" or "lucky." The odds are what they are, riding a "hot streak" isn't going to change that. Besides, why play for 3rd or 4th? Go for first, make the call. I do agree, that he should have bet strong on the flop. Checking is just allowing his opponents to draw on him for free. Misplayed, just try not to listen to all of the bad advice on here. Just my $.02. Chris Richey

[jlgosse 0]

if you fold here, you're a ****ing donk, hands downno, i'm not being an idiot, it's just stupid to fold here.not to mention it's short-handed, so it's less likely that someone has a hand to compete against yours

[Spademan 94]

You flopped the nuts.There are  only 3 hands you should fold to.Chances of them having the combinations of rag diamonds that you'd be worried about are remarkably slim.Obvious you should get your chips in here.

what are they 68d's?

I also wouldn't want to see 8-10d's.

[custom36 5]

Folding the nuts is stupid.Advising others to fold the nuts is even worse.

[sideSHOWbob 0]

BUT . . . everything changes if you factor in the possibility of OPEN folding.Think about that for a second, mathboys.

Some of the responses do seem a bit "open-farrellesque"I bet if the OP wouldn't have posted the results, everyone would advocate a call

[trippkc 0]

I think all the people advocating a fold here are basing this on the fact that the OP was up against a set and flush draw. Also, the original raiser WAS NOT all-in when the OP called. The button could have just been taking a stab at the pot, there is no way to know if he is gonna call 2 all-ins. Also, the SB could be making this re-raise with a overpair, or even something as weak as top pair/top kicker. Let me repeat something now: THE OP DID NOT CALL 2 ALL-INS, HE CALLED ONE AND THE BUTTON CALLED 2. This is a call every time. The OP happened to run into the worst possible situation (barring 68d's), yet still got his money in with the best of it. And for the last time, the OP did not call 2 all-ins, the dealer did. There are so many more times that the deal takes a stab t this pot and then folds to the re-raise. Please, everyone look at how the hand actually played out and use our heads. FOLDING IS NOT AN OPTION.

[augmented 0]

okay, now that it it a ridiculously obvious call, as trippkc just made things a lot easier, i am going to argue a different point.people have been saying that you MUST bet this flop. i wholeheartedly disagree. i just wanna know where you guys, especially people like spademan and tripp who i trust and like, stand on this. personally i am checking this flop every time.so, what hands are we really worried about here? only two hands: a flush draw and a set. i am a little bit worried about T8, but its unlikely that someone's in with that, and if someone was in with that they probably woulda played it differently.A flush draw, because it is likely with 1 or 2 overs, will almost definitely bet here. now you can raise, or even calling doesnt seem that bad. a set will CERTAINLY bet here. you should raise him.now, i'll say its pretty unlikely someone has a flush draw or a set, and incredibly unlikely they have both. so, my point is, EVERY OTHER HAND they could have is safe giving a free card to. i'd say its much more likely that someone might improve to a decent second-best hand on the turn than that someone with a big flush draw or set will take a free card and get there on the turn.i think checking is safe here. some idiot said to move all-in on the flop, and i wanted to shoot myself after reading that. can someone tell me why checking is bad here, in light of my arguments for it?as i said in previous posts, i would be PISSED if i bet out from the big blind and got no action here.

[Spademan 94]

I like a feeler bet here in most situations for two reasons.1) I want get some information where the other players stand.2) I don't want to give the flush/trips a free card.I suppose I could check in some rare instances, if there is an ultra-aggro player that nearly always bets if it's checked to him being one.Most of the time here, I'm leading out though, certainly not moving in, but I'm putting a feeler out there.

[ChrisRichey 1]

I agree. Betting on the flop allows you to gather some information about the other players, as well as prevents them from sucking you out for free. If you check and they draw on you for free, and beat your hand, you basically gave them the pot by not defending your hand. Getting sucked out because you gave them the opportunity to do so, blows. Chris Richey

[trippkc 0]

I think checking or betting out is based on your read of the table. If you are sure that the button, if checked to him will stab at it, then a check-raise is in order here. I think betting out is the better option because you can't give a free card to a drawing hand on such a draw heavy board. If you get no action by betting the flop, it is probably because no one got any kind of piece of it so checking may not do much good anyways. If you check, many times a flush draw may just take his free card and if a diamond hits you have no idea where you stand. Also, even though this is results based, it is clear the SB was looking for a check-raise, so you can give him the opportunity to go over the top. Checking isn't bad, but I prefer to be in control of a hand. The only reason to ever fold is if you're going with the Conditioner style of play and you don't want your opponents to know you have the nuts.

[93transam 0]

the obvious answer is this:had no one gone all in, check it all the way to the river then fold.you cant let people see what hands you're playing!

[augmented 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard. hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.In other words, it doesnt matter whether you charge those draws, they're gonna play with you, so in effect by checking, you are saving money when a scare card comes and theres a bet and a raise or something.

[93transam 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

im not quoting this for the actual text.i just noticed youve got a mars volta quote in your signature...they are one of the greatest bands out there today, definitely my top 2 or 3 favs. of all time.

[custom36 5]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

im not quoting this for the actual text.i just noticed youve got a mars volta quote in your signature...they are one of the greatest bands out there today, definitely my top 2 or 3 favs. of all time.

Behind Hillary Duff and Weezer?

[trippkc 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

I agree with you, but the SB has already check. If you think the button is gonna bet at this no matter what, then checking is OK. However, if he is more of a passive player, he may just take his free card. Now if a diamond hits you have no idea where you stand. In this situation I would be more worried about the SB checking a flush draw, but the last thing you want is for it to check around. You can let someone catch up, but the only card that will really help someone would be a diamond or a paired boared, otherwise a check-raise will result in a fold by a lesser hand or a call by a better hand. If you lead out with a bet you can get called down by an overpair, top pair, maybe even middle pair if your bet gets no respect. Also, this late in the tournament, depending on the blinds to stack, it may be no time to get cute and slowplay.

[93transam 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

im not quoting this for the actual text.i just noticed youve got a mars volta quote in your signature...they are one of the greatest bands out there today, definitely my top 2 or 3 favs. of all time.

Behind Hillary Duff and Weezer?

weezer is a good band too! :oops: seriously though, youre not bashing on the mars volta are you :cry:

[custom36 5]

Behind Hillary Duff and Weezer?

weezer is a good band too! :oops: seriously though, youre not bashing on the mars volta are you :cry:

Lol, of course not.

[augmented 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

im not quoting this for the actual text.i just noticed youve got a mars volta quote in your signature...they are one of the greatest bands out there today, definitely my top 2 or 3 favs. of all time.

damn right.and my avatar is an album cover, porcupine tree's "in absentia". PT is my favorite band, prog-rock, kinda ambient but also heavy, you should check them out.sorry to go off-topic. CALL THE ALL INSCHECK THE FLOPand fine, i admit that the choice to check or bet the flop is largely based on the table. but i'd say that getting cute isn't so bad here.

[93transam 0]

i hate feeler bets. you don't need information in a situation like this. you already have information: his hand is worse than yours. while it's true that letting someone suck out on you blows, i think that passing up an opportunity for someone to hit top pair or 2 pair on the turn, OR BLUFF YOU, and instead winning a tiny ass pot sucks just as hard.  hands that might outdraw you are betting this flop. go ahead and raise them. any other hand, it's all good. give a free card. let them hit something. let them bluff you. besides, whether you charge the draws or not, theyre still gonna put their money into there either way.

im not quoting this for the actual text.i just noticed youve got a mars volta quote in your signature...they are one of the greatest bands out there today, definitely my top 2 or 3 favs. of all time.

damn right.and my avatar is an album cover, porcupine tree's "in absentia". PT is my favorite band, prog-rock, kinda ambient but also heavy, you should check them out.sorry to go off-topic. CALL THE ALL INSCHECK THE FLOP

cool, ill have to check them out. to they have a myspace website or something where i can just play a few of their songs?