laydown question

[poker_tim 0]

In my weekly home game this saturday a friend of mine layed down second nuts after an all in on the river. He stood to loose only about $60, but that is a lot to some of my college friends.My question to you all is:Is there any amount of a raise or a great enough read on a player that would make you lay down second nuts on the river?O.K. let me add the situation:Would you lay down Kx suited with a board that had only three cards to your flush with no pairs or straight flush possibility. For arguments sake you are already in for about $10 and you stand to win a pot of around $130 or so.

[allinbluff35 0]

maybe

[JistTheFist 0]

maybe

yes.easily.also, you mentioned how much he stood to loose.how much did he stand to win is the bigger question?

[Elpedro 0]

Depends on a number of circumstances. More details are necessary to make a good assesment of the situation.

[zimmer4141 0]

Yeah, I can think of spots where I'd laydown the 2nd nuts. You have to do it all the time, especially in NL cash games.

[Elpedro 0]

maybe

another thorough analysis....

[DCSports92GSR 0]

This is the stupidest, most vague question ever. It obviously depends on what the nuts are and what the seccond nuts are.Im not folding QQ on a 2-4-8-Q-K board, but I MIGHT fold 6-7 on a 3-4-5-7-K board if its a $60 bet to me and theres $5 in the pot, etc.

[allinbluff35 0]

maybe

another thorough analysis....

my analysis was about as in depth as OP's description of the hand.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Yes...king high flush...i hate king high flush...

[DCSports92GSR 0]

Yes...king high flush...i hate king high flush...

play money stud is worse

[TraptSteve 0]

This is one of those "it depends" answers.Say you have K Q and the board =J 2 8 / 4 / 7 There are 2 other opponents in the pot. The person in front of you checks, and you decide to make a big wager hoping to get called by a 10-9 or perhaps smaller straight.You bet 50 $ into 40$ pot, and with slight hesitation the person behind you moves all-in for your entire stack ... about another 400.This requires a lot of judgement. You have the 2nd and 3rd nuts locked up, and the 4th nuts is on board. How good is your opponent? There is really only one hand he could be moving in with here. Also ask if your opponent is capable of making this sort of play, given the strength of the board out. I guess there are just so many variables that come into play, which extend outside of even the given hand, that it makes answering "Would you ever fold 2nd nuts to a large bet on the river?" impractical.

[poker_tim 0]

It may be that I am at a lower skill level than most, but I would need to have an incredible read on someone to lay that down when only Ax suited beats me.

[poker_tim 0]

This is one of those "it depends" answers.Say you have K Q and the board =J 2 8 / 4 / 7 There are 2 other opponents in the pot. The person in front of you checks, and you decide to make a big wager hoping to get called by a 10-9 or perhaps smaller straight.You bet 50 $ into 40$ pot, and with slight hesitation the person behind you moves all-in for your entire stack ... about another 400.This requires a lot of judgement. You have the 2nd and 3rd nuts locked up, and the 4th nuts is on board. How good is your opponent? There is really only one hand he could be moving in with here. Also ask if your opponent is capable of making this sort of play, given the strength of the board out. I guess there are just so many variables that come into play, which extend outside of even the given hand, that it makes answering "Would you ever fold 2nd nuts to a large bet on the river?" impractical.

I edited the original post. There was no straight flush draw on the board.

[Royal_Tour 0]

It may be that I am at a lower skill level than most, but I would need to have an incredible read on someone to lay that down when only Ax suited beats me.

usually No.. cuz usually i can pick up if i'm the only one drawing the flush or not.second. If its something like.. Bet /raise /re-raise all in.. then yaa. i could probably fold this hand.

[Poker4Me2005 0]

In my past experiences (playing mostly $200 NL or lower) most people with the nuts dont raise extremely large amounts on the river compared to the pot(especially when heads up), such as in some of the examples in this thread, because they want to get paid off. When you have the nuts are you honestly expecting the person next to you to have the 2nd nuts?In a heads up situation I would never fold the 2nd nuts to a river bet/raise if i'm using both my hole cards. The odds that you have a winning hand are so great you shouldnt be second guessing yourself in this situation. Your read could very well be showing that they're strong but they could very easily have 2 pair or a lower set or a lower straight or a lower flush than you and think they're definitely in the lead because your contemplating the call when (to them) anything better would instantly call/raise. Even if there were numerous people in the pot and there was alot of betting/raising only 1 hand has the possibilty of beating you so you shouldnt be worried about getting your money in there with the 2nd nuts. Its easy to play the super strong hands, you guys would be much better off focusing on top pair / top kicker or 2 pair folds. Situations that come up frequently and cost us all money at some point.

[TraptSteve 0]

It may be that I am at a lower skill level than most, but I would need to have an incredible read on someone to lay that down when only Ax suited beats me.

usually No.. cuz usually i can pick up if i'm the only one drawing the flush or not.second. If its something like.. Bet /raise /re-raise all in.. then yaa. i could probably fold this hand.

Has nothing to do with skill here, just logic and discipline. Hypothetically, if you are playing a good , tight player and he jacks your bet all in, do you really think he would be doing that with a 9-high flush , as in my example? An easier laydown would be one where you have say.. the queen high flush with a 10 kicker card. The jack is out on board. In this case, there are one of 2 hand he could be logically raising you with. Again, it really all depends on your opponents and the given situation. I'll even be honest... I haven't folded a K-high flush to a river raise to my recollection. I've been getting better in terms of trusting my gut, however

[dank773 0]

I don't know how many times I've called a bet on the river thinking, "well, there's only one hand that beats me here", and lost money. So yes, I've learned to lay down 2nd nuts from time to time.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Only against certain players.Ive folded the second nut - no set to a guy in limit for a single bet. I Bet folded the river to something that could only complete some weird ass backdoor straight or be a set. This was the same guy who didn't raise an ace high flush because there was a straight flush possibility on board. If your read is strong enough, it's easy to fold to a large bet absent of the stone cold nuts.