plo question....how bad was my move here?

[CaneBrain 95]

Ok I am playing at an Empire PLO200 (6max) table.I have about 190 bucks in front of me. Everyone else is somewhere between 150-250. Table just started up...I have played 8 hands and have no reads really.I am in the BB with A 4 5 4 Everyone limps until SB who min raises. Gotta love min raises.Anyway I call and everyone else calls as well. There is about 23 bucks in the pot.Flop comes 10 4 3 .I see I have the A and a set. I think to myself this is a good bluffing opportunity. I have the nut flush card which I can represent the nut flush with and I have a set as a backup plan.Anyways SB bets out 15. Fishy bet to me so I flat call setting up that I am slowplaying the nut flush for later. CO guy who has me covered min raises to 30. I feel like he has a medium flush and is sending out a feeler bet. SB calls and I go re-raise the max putting myself either all-in or close to it. I figure he has to have one of two hands. He has a flush (my thinking) or he has a set as well and was feeling everyone out.I really thought he couldnt call with those hands with the possibility of a nut flush staring him in the face. I thought I had set up the bluff perfectly. Well he calls with a set of tens....not even one diamond in his hand. Obviously this was the absolute worst case scenario as it took out my backup plan of pairing the board and beating a flush with my set of 4s. Dead to one card and I dont find it.So did I screw this up mightily or did I just make a move and get caught/bad timing/whatever??P.S.----Oh and I realize my worst decision was probably deciding to play this hand at all preflop. My only defense was I was BB and everyone limps and the SB min raises. Still definitely a bad idea. I would enjoy analysis of the rest of the hand too please.

[Spademan 94]

I don't fault your reasoning, if I'm at a table where I have reads, and am confident people won't make big calls on speculative hands, and I have a very tight image up to that point.Keeping in mind I've got some gamb-ol in me.However, I don't like this move at a table where I've just sat down.For all I know teneight is there with the 200 he's parlyed from powerplayer.

[CaneBrain 95]

I don't fault your reasoning, if I'm at a table where I have reads, and am confident people won't make big calls on speculative hands, and I have a very tight image up to that point.Keeping in mind I've got some gamb-ol in me.However, I don't like this move at a table where I've just sat down.For all I know teneight is there with the 200 he's parlyed from powerplayer.

Well I have been really running good and I thought I could make it happen here.But I see your point....the old its easier to bluff good players argument....you probably do need reads to attempt a play like this....thanks

[Ricky10105 0]

bad play

[rsmbox 1]

i like it better if you have top set, but not neccessarily a bad play

[SuperJon 175]

it's a bad play, and unless you're playing super high limits (shorthanded), bluffing in omaha is always -EV; always.

[JesseW316 0]

I like your play and your reasoning, but at a table with no reads I wouldn't do it. You can't assume that your opponents are trying to play the best poker possible.Sometimes, they just TRY to give you their money and you continue to refuse it, a la Phil Hellmuth.If luck weren't involved, you'd win every one.

[KoRnholio 2]

I didn't realize it was 6 max until I reread your post. Having the naked ace is pretty much of zero value there, since people will call in a heartbeat with a K,Q or even J-high flush. The middle set there has value, since it is quite unlikely you'll be up against the top set. But with a 3 flush on the board it will be nearly impossible to push anyone off a flush. I'd try to get a free card if possible and hope to fill up.

[DaBruins 0]

"not even one diamond in his hand".....why should it even matter if he has a diamond in his hand? Anyway, personally i wouldve either raised the flop myself and put out a feeler bet myself, or i wouldve gone into check/call mode because you're not pushing any online player off a flush. In this case he had top set vs your middle set, a pretty common and shitty occurence in omaha.

[dank773 0]

I like the play, your reasoning is sound, it just didn't work out. With a flush on board, most players would have a hard time calling off all their chips with top set.

[Pudge714 0]

Could Tens fold with all the money in the pot? I don't feel like doing the math because I am a lazy ****.

[DaBruins 0]

if my math is right with the way it currently went down (betting wise that is) then the CO is getting more than 3:1 pot odds for the call. Assuming he's up against a flush, he's got about a 35% chance to win the hand, so that would be an automatic call. Considering this is pot limit and the Hero cant go all-in right off the bat, the CO is extremely unlikely to fold his top set no matter the bet.

[KDawgCometh 2]

you do realize that you have to play 2 cards from your hand, so having the A doesn't mean jack shit. I pretty much stopped reading when I saw that and that you had middle set. THis isn't holdem and should be folded on the flop

[SuperJon 175]

you do realize that you have to play 2 cards from your hand, so having the A doesn't mean jack shit. I pretty much stopped reading when I saw that and that you had middle set. THis isn't holdem and should be folded on the flop

i guess your reading comprehension isn't too par. if you actually read what he wrote, you'd see that he was using the ace of diamonds as his bluff card, as he didn't think anyone would call a big raise without the nutflush, and no one could have the nut flush since he had the ace.

[KDawgCometh 2]

you do realize that you have to play 2 cards from your hand, so having the A doesn't mean jack shit. I pretty much stopped reading when I saw that and that you had middle set. THis isn't holdem and should be folded on the flop

i guess your reading comprehension isn't too par. if you actually read what he wrote, you'd see that he was using the ace of diamonds as his bluff card, as he didn't think anyone would call a big raise without the nutflush, and no one could have the nut flush since he had the ace.

looks like your reading comprehension isn't too high either, cause if it was, then you'd have noticed that I said I stopped reading after he tried using the A as justification for anyting, so try much harder to flame me next time, you might actually say something funny

[SuperJon 175]

you do realize that you have to play 2 cards from your hand, so having the A doesn't mean jack shit. I pretty much stopped reading when I saw that and that you had middle set. THis isn't holdem and should be folded on the flop

i guess your reading comprehension isn't too par. if you actually read what he wrote, you'd see that he was using the ace of diamonds as his bluff card, as he didn't think anyone would call a big raise without the nutflush, and no one could have the nut flush since he had the ace.

looks like your reading comprehension isn't too high either, cause if it was, then you'd have noticed that I said I stopped reading after he tried using the A as justification for anyting, so try much harder to flame me next time, you might actually say something funny

actually you said, you pretty much stopped reading, which could mean that you kept reading but didn't pay full attention. and you really should read the guy's entire post if you're going to flame him.

[KDawgCometh 2]

actually you said, you pretty much stopped reading, which could mean that you kept reading but didn't pay full attention. and you really should read the guy's entire post if you're going to flame him.

I didn't flame him, but commiting too much money with this hand is a mistake, and bluffs only work in PLO when the players can fold, and are of better caliber then what you'd come across at most online limits

[CaneBrain 95]

actually you said, you pretty much stopped reading, which could mean that you kept reading but didn't pay full attention. and you really should read the guy's entire post if you're going to flame him.

I didn't flame him, but commiting too much money with this hand is a mistake, and bluffs only work in PLO when the players can fold, and are of better caliber then what you'd come across at most online limits

I see your point kdawg but like the guy was telling you....the only reason I mentioned I had the A of diamonds was as a bluffing card...I know since I have it that no one else can so I can represent the nut flush.Your point is valid though and like a lot of people pointed out a bluff here is probably not wise and much too fancy a play unless I am playing with better players or whatever. Lesson learned.

[KDawgCometh 2]

the only reason I mentioned I had the A of diamonds was as a bluffing card...I know since I have it that no one else can so I can represent the nut flush.

the thing is, no one is gonna fold there at almost any limit up until high limits, and even then if someone has top set they'd be getting the right price to call to try to fill up on the turn if you pot it. Basically for this bluff to work you need someone to have AAxx, your set, or bottom set. That is why bluffing in PLO is basically fruitless unless you are playing against a high caliber of player, cause any of the idiots who normally play in the PLO games are bad holdem players who like action and can't get off of their sets and wrap straight draws

[Smasharoo 0]

So did I screw this up mightilyYes.Your preflop call is fine, though. Oh wait, this O high? You suck, stop playing immediately. :)Top set's going to call here *a lot*, at any limit.Good luck.

[CaneBrain 95]

the only reason I mentioned I had the A of diamonds was as a bluffing card...I know since I have it that no one else can so I can represent the nut flush.

the thing is, no one is gonna fold there at almost any limit up until high limits, and even then if someone has top set they'd be getting the right price to call to try to fill up on the turn if you pot it. Basically for this bluff to work you need someone to have AAxx, your set, or bottom set. That is why bluffing in PLO is basically fruitless unless you are playing against a high caliber of player, cause any of the idiots who normally play in the PLO games are bad holdem players who like action and can't get off of their sets and wrap straight draws

Yep I agree. like I said lesson learned. Although I didnt know he had top set.....i really put him on a medium flush.....but yeah this play I made is no good and wont be used again. Thanks for the input.

[CaneBrain 95]

So did I screw this up mightilyYes.Your preflop call is fine, though. Oh wait, this O high? You suck, stop playing immediately. Top set's going to call here *a lot*, at any limit.Good luck.

Sigh. Thanks smash.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Unless you know you are playing against VERY GOOD PLAYERS, bluffing usually doesnt work in PL omaha games (fromwhat I have been witness to). I wouldn't fault top set here from calling, as even if you did have the flush already they have many ways to beat you (full house beats a flush) 8)