Smasharoo 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Common situation, I know how I play it ussually, but I'm curious how others approach it.You have AK/AQ/KQ/AJ whatever, raise, BB calls, flop is uncordinated undercards, say 739 rainbow, BB check, you bet, he raises, you..... Link to post Share on other sites
jayistheman 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 sometimes, i'll take a card here... .but i wont like it. too often, i call with overs, and find they have something like A8, and im in troule.my only real reason for trying to take a card off is my positon on the guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Author Share Posted August 13, 2005 my only real reason for trying to take a card off is my positon on the guy.Do you ever three-bet it, with say AK/AQ? Link to post Share on other sites
jayistheman 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 against a really agressive opponent, i might.... usually i try to avoid getting into a big confrontation here simple because if they have Ax or Kx with a pair of x, im usually in a bit of trouble. if i have some outs to a running flush or some sort of straight draw, i might... but on a raggedy flop, given his check raise, i usually slow down here.... the cr could easily mean a set as well, all the more reason to slow up.but , on the other hand, i don't play 6max often enough to find any leaks i might have in this area. Link to post Share on other sites
WaitingforMyRuca 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I will three bet here depending on the oppenent. Although, i frequent low limit 6-max so BB usually call with anything, I may be way behind. I guess it just depends... Link to post Share on other sites
KDawgCometh 2 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 my only real reason for trying to take a card off is my positon on the guy.Do you ever three-bet it, with say AK/AQ?I think that its entirely opponent dependant. against someone like me, I think three betting is smart, cause I have no problem CRing the flop if I think you missed also Link to post Share on other sites
bluff2much 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 I don't think i have ever check raised the flop...(maybe heads up, but thats really trying to mix up my strategy) whats the point...you know the raiser is going to bet on the flop anyway and most likely going to bet the turn...especailly 6 handed. a couple of thoughts.1. a check raise tells me that the player is not a very good player.2. he hit either two pair or a set... and if the ugly straight was there (which in the flop u demonstrated it was not) then he hit that too.I do like what Kdawg said about check raising if he thinks u missed. But what would u check raise w/ top pair best kicker....a good draw...middle pair? and how many players in the pot.So in that situation i don't like the 3 bet. I would also take into consieration how many other players are int he hand. Link to post Share on other sites
tdmlb24 0 Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Definitely opponent dependent Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 1. a check raise tells me that the player is not a very good player.2. he hit either two pair or a set... and if the ugly straight was there (which in the flop u demonstrated it was not) then he hit that too.That's usually true for predictable players if they wait for the turn to checkraise, not when they do it outright on the flop. A flop checkraise indicates a weak made hand that's getting value from a PFR that probably missed. (in my experience)3Betting is alright if you think an opponent will checkraise a ragged flop (where he missed) in order to stop you from showing down your ace high winner, in the event that both of you miss on the turn and river. There aren't many playres I've seen at the limits that I play that would do that though. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 1. a check raise tells me that the player is not a very good player.??? Link to post Share on other sites
Schneider 0 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 In most cases, I'm not 3-betting.I will call and try to improve on the turn.If a JQKA comes on the turn, regardless of whether or not I have it, I am representing it.If a blank comes off, I give up. Link to post Share on other sites
troutsmart 0 Posted August 14, 2005 Share Posted August 14, 2005 I'd say that 3 betting this flop is dependent on what action you plan on taking on the turn. Different scenarios-You 3-bet, and he caps. He bets, and you've missed. What do you do?You 3-bet, and he caps. He bets, and you've made a pair. What do you do? Does your plan differ if you've paired your Ace vs. your kicker?You 3-bet and he calls. He checks the turn, and you've missed. What do you do?You 3-bet and he calls. He checks the turn, and you've made a pair. You bet. He checkraises. What do you do?You 3-bet and he calls. He bets out the turn, and you've missed. What do you do?You 3-bet and he calls. He bets out the turn, you've made a pair what do you do?Then there are interesting turn cards, such as the board pairing.If I three-bet this flop, I'm usually looking for a free card on turn and potentially free showdown. Unless this is a habitual check-raiser and LAG player, I will most often take a card off, and fold to a bet on the turn if I don't improve. Link to post Share on other sites
WonderfulSplash 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 1. a check raise tells me that the player is not a very good player. :shock: Someone tells me that they aren't vary good when they always wait for the turn to c/r. When someone waits to c/r the turn it usually means they have a VERY big hand, especially when the flop is coordinated. C/r's on the flop are more sneaky and are not nessicarily a dead giveaway to the strength of your hand. Im not saying that check-raising the turn is always bad, but I see too many people doing it in way the wrong spots. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I''d 3 bet it. Figure you're buying yourself a free turn and river with 1 sb. Instead of just calling the raise and facing another bet when you miss on the turn. If you're playing against a loose aggressive opponent might have to just call though as its likely that the player will cap with 9x or even 7x Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 i dont see the 3 bet being mathmatically correct...?we have what...25% chance to hit out 6 outs correct, by the river? if we raised preflop, sb fold, bb calls, thats 2.5bb, c/r on flop adds total up to 3.5bb and we have to call one more sb, so we call9then 4bb), if we 3 bet, that makes it 4.5bb and then we have to hit a 6 outer in order to make up for the times we hit over the times we miss, which will be the majority of the time. Not to mention when we do hit on the turn, and he c/c us and then he improves on the river to two pair, or trips, which will happen...my math may be off, but i think calling the raise is fine and then depending on the turn, how we act. i dont think a 3 bet is normally correct, but plz correct me if i'm offering horrid advice.also read dependant obviously, but strictly math wise i dont think a 3 bet is a right play...not to mention if we get capped and do not improve, or if we get capped and do improve...we still only have a pair and we could be up against 2 pair, set, etc...- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
wannabe 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 3 bet everytime Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 3 bet everytimewow talk about being predictable Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 I have only recently begun playing short-handed tables with any frequency (I like it!), so you probably can't put much stock in this, but I don't think I have every 3-bet it there, against any opponent. If that is wrong, then so be it, but 3-betting a check/raise with only overcards just doesn't seem correct to me... :? Link to post Share on other sites
guinevar 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 Opponent dependent if the guy is way LAG I will call down.However, most times I am folding. Your free card play didn't work and it's -ev to call if he has any pair. Link to post Share on other sites
guinevar 0 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 You also can't give yourself 6 clean outs. It is not unheard of to defend the blind with A9 or A7s. You might be experiencing reverse domination.I call his checkraise and evaluate on the turn, but again, it is really player dependent. Most of the time, calling with overcards in six handed play is a losing proposition. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted August 16, 2005 Share Posted August 16, 2005 you can call with over cards 6 handed if the pot odds are like 5.5sb on the flop or something around that and still be plus +ev..thats of course taking for granted all your outs are clean- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
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