reading about it is lots easier. lhe aq aug 9

[TheMathProf 0]

Actuary,I, too, enjoy reading your strategy posts of hands, and I believe you have some good insight most of the time. At least better than my own.I do think you overplayed your hand a bit, though.If you were heads up, then personally, if you want to raise the flop for information, I think you can do so, but only if you're really willing to fold either to the flop 3-bet or to the turn bet.But having MP3 in the hand as long as you do makes me think that I'm likely losing here with a smallish number of outs.This may not be the best advice, but I do tend to call it down there, especially if I don't have a read on a player, if for no other reason than to (A) garner information and (B) for potential showdown value.It sounds like others disagree, but it's how I would probably play the hand.

[greatwhite 0]

Once again I agree with DN. That's good to know. Maybe I should just move down to Vegas and start playing in the big game. What can they 3-bet with? Any fish will have you beat most of the time on the river. I would call the flop and the turn just because of odds. However, the hand should be folded on the river instantly.

[AceyDeucy 0]

If you have someone who habitually overplays their hand, what you DON'T do is make marginal calls, like middle pair. What you DO do is let them attack you when you are holding a substantial hand, because they are used to trucking you over in small pots. As someone who usually overplays my hand, this is the situation I live for. If I hit top pair, I KNOW I am not going to get credit for a real hand and get called down by second pair big kicker. This is one of the few situations where I can look at a big pot. Actuary, the reason for the fold here is that this is not the place to pick a fight. Even if you have him as a bad player, this play, over time, will hurt you. That is really the point of the discussion. The thought process that made you call here is the same one that I make most of my profit off of. I don't think that the complete range of hands he makes this play with has you beat, but an awful lot of it does, and it will have you drawing really slim when it does.

[Actuary 3]

to emphasis...his pre-flop 3-bet should have told me I was not looking too good.My thinking on the flop raise was to get Mp3 out, or make them pay me off more for a draw, and to establish control, and to see how strong BB was.Once both players called, and BB 3-bet..I found myself in a decent size pot, that I then figured was worth calling down. Simple as that. Not a good play in retrospect...I don't disagree.If I had known I was going to be 3-bet..I would not have raised the flop. If Mp3 had not called my raise, I likely would have folded to the 3-bet..or on the turn (just to save face, and not fold the flop r/r). The pot was big enough to call down now.I don't think the pot was big enough to call down had I not raised. I then would have folded the turn. So I tied/and got glued myself to a pot when I'm likely behind. Obviously, I was suprised to see that we split...but if he's aggressive, it's not a big surprise. Since I did not cap the flop or pre-flop, he's pretty sure I don't have AA/KK/QQ or AK. My not capping the flop or raisng the turn eliminates other hands, like a set. I think he read me for a hand close to what I had, and was hoping I'd fold, of course.Like previously mentioned, I do not take the opponents actions as seriously as other players do. No doubt, I'm adjusting this with more experience. So far, lots of "opposite man" villans keep me from being persuaded to trust their moves more than 50%. I look a lot at the likelyhood that this flop hits a random hand..pepperd with information about the pre-flop action. But it's not like a field of 6 saw the flop.Obviously he showed strength..but without me capping pre-flop, flop, or raising the turn, it's not surprising that he played it this way.I get the impression reading SSHE that we should be raising with marginal hands on the flop and turn if the pot is big enough..maybe I need to review more to see the correct application. Surely, in a bigger pot here, raising the flop is good. Anyone not agree with that, and I'd like to hear why.I'll keep posting.What I will likely do is post up until a "decision" point and solicit opinions..then post..etc. That will keep me from whining about OP bias.I'm a student getting either mixed messages or using a bad cpu.

[brian67 0]

This is 1-2 lhe, people will be playing in pots, even capped ones with weak kings. There are so many players that will play every single hand as long as they can limp, and still play really terrible ones to multiple bets. This is the very reason we all love online, the plain and simple truth is that most people online are horrible. I try to look for better chances to push online. That is not to say that you can't bet very weak hands at times, but this was clearly not a situation that you were trying to steal. If I am making a value bet, i most certainly want to put my money in when i am the favorite in the hand.

[Actuary 3]

It's not about being ahead...its about equity.And I did not have enough here (normaly!) to riase.I think that's the issue.The pot is too small at the time of my raise to fight hard for.The BB showed strength and my hand likely needs to improve.It's also vulnerable to-redraws galore.But in a bigger pot its ok to raise..in this spot, I contend...One day, I'll do it at the right time.

[dimseven 0]

daniel gives great advice.also, DC, saying to fold AQ made me puke. I raise ATs in that spot.

Please don't fold A-Q. That's horrible.

[creepy20 0]

daniel gives great advice.also, DC, saying to fold AQ made me puke. I raise ATs in that spot.

although I didn't puke i did cough pretty hard and a little throw up came up into my throat...it was nasty...hate when that happens and you are a jerk sir for making it happen. j/k i'm also raising A10s here in a sshe game. Anyways, Actuary please don't stop posting your hands. I read them almost everyday and always learn from the things people post afterwards and since you and I are playing the same limits it helps me out extremely....and don't worry about being able to figure out the bad advice from the good.....just do the best you can,,,try different things and don't get so upset over people's critiques. btw...i'm calling the flop and folding the turn.

[Actuary 3]

btw...i'm calling the flop and folding the turn.buttt hole! I know..I get sensitive with all the bad plays I make.You may have noticed, I'm now posting withoutt givng my move..Then may add that later.It keeps the discussion more open..and easier to swallow...

[TripDaddy 0]

Looks like I still have lots to learn from reading Daniel's post, but personally I raise the flop and fold to a reraise. If this guy is willing to three bet pre flop and on the flop he is SCREAMING at you that he has a hand. Fold on the flop to a 3 bet. I really do not see how that once you get 3 bet, could you call. clear fold.I guess what Daniel and Eric are saying is that by calling the flop you get to see the turn for half price vs. folding to a reraise for a full bet and never seeing the turn which could have giving you 2 pair (if an A spikes). I might argue that the turn could be a trap for you. If you spike the A then what?? If you are up against the hands listed by DN, you are screwed. The only real hope you have is to spike a Q, but then you are drawing to 2 outs.Tough hand. But the most conservative route is DNs, but I am not sure you even call the flop, - What card could come that you would feel could about calling to the river?The more I think about it, I say Raise on the flop and fold to a reraise.Does that make me weak agressive tight?

[Actuary 3]

Trip:If yuo've read all my replies..I get quite wordy..but baically, all the "fold" crowd or "don't riase" crowd are limting the BB likely holdings too much.I don't like call down, pot too small.Once the flop is 3-bet...calling down makes sense..pot size.My flop raise into a pot too small to call down was BAD PLAY!...unless I had any read that BB gives a free turn..no indication he wouldAlways keep in mind I only need 33% equity to call or raise, if improves my equity enough to justify an extra bet (or two, oops) then its good.Never raing with marginal hands is worse than misapplying it in pots not-yet-big enough to chase.btw..you do know what BB had right?Not being results oriented. As you see..I agree the raise was not bet play.I think calling would be worst, as I can't safely get xtra bets in even if I hit an Ace. I did think I made a valid point when discussing the play of the BB as being typical for someone trying to take a pot down, after I did not cap pre-flop or flop. This board should scare me away..and he knows that. Yes, I will lose money with this play...in a BIGGER POT..this is the correct play..I wish someone would address that..if that right/wrong?

[Abbaddabba 0]

If you call and the third individual in the hand calls behind you, it's safe to say that he'll slow down with any hand that you have beat. If he had jacks and had two callers on that flop, he'd slow down most likely, no?You get the same information as if you raised the flop basically. You're more likely to get misinformation (if he continues betting with something you have beat), but it' comes at half price - you get what you pay for. If he's the type to continue betting on that sort of a flop with jacks, after having two callers, you probably should have a read on him by that point anyways to influence your decision.