case ace 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 So....I've been a cash game player for about 1.5 years now, after playing tourneys for about 1.5 years (mostly sng's) i've alway made money at both, however switched to cash games because it is more stable income...In the las month I have literally, won about .75 bb per 100 hands (which is fine, it's still money, and, it's due variance since i've had months where i'm 4bb/100 a head.)Recently when those thunderous river suckouts happen in my session i have staerted cashing into a cheap tourneys, usually between 20 and 100 mtt, to keep my profits and just "kill time"In 20 -30 tourney's of "killing time" So far i have a 66-70%ish cash rateand almost half of those cashes make it to the fianl table 100-250 man tourneys.i'm almost always at the final 2 tables.i've taken a 1st, two 2nd's, 2 thirds, a few fourths.6,7,8 etc...in the 500-100 man mtt's i'm about the same cash rate except with the final table appearences, but i've made 2... a 3rd place and a 6th ( rebuy event too, which was good!)IMO Seems like the dead money in mtts way surpasses the cash games, and is worth the "3-hour-to-triple-your-money-" routine you have to go through so often. basically what i'm saying is, by accident, this month i made more on "killing time" than i did on the suck out fish fest cash games i usaully and can, and still, thrive on. Has anyone else stepped in shi.t like me? I may not go back...usually proponents of cash games are tourney players that switch over, not vice versa. but are any of you steady cash game winners who have switched to MTTs? Link to post Share on other sites
mangwansi 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 I remember reading a good article on the 2+2 forum by Ed Miller about the difficulty of making a steady income through MTT's. I think part of the reason for your success is due in part to a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're emotionally prepared for the tilt factor of cash games, and you almost welcome it so you can "kill time" by playing MTT's. If you're really cashing in 65-70% of the time, which to me seems unsustainable, then more power to you. Build your bankroll through S&G's and MTT's. Your variance will be lower, but as paradoxical as this may sound, I suspect your bankroll won't grow as consistently.Shrug. Take the time to find out where your heart is at and play where you have more success. Players like Hellmuth just aren't suited for cash games, but they slaughter tourneys when they focus. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Author Share Posted August 6, 2005 I remember reading a good article on the 2+2 forum by Ed Miller about the difficulty of making a steady income through MTT's. I think part of the reason for your success is due in part to a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're emotionally prepared for the tilt factor of cash games, and you almost welcome it so you can "kill time" by playing MTT's. If you're really cashing in 65-70% of the time, which to me seems unsustainable, then more power to you. Build your bankroll through S&G's and MTT's. Your variance will be lower, but as paradoxical as this may sound, I suspect your bankroll won't grow as consistently.Shrug. Take the time to find out where your heart is at and play where you have more success. Players like Hellmuth just aren't suited for cash games, but they slaughter tourneys when they focus.Ty.Two things,1. what is a sustainable cash rate. I understand there is a paradox of "going for it" and getting your money back, but where do pros want to be if you play an average stack game? Do you, or anyone esle knows how that should or could contrapose with final table appearences?2. Sngs are no good IMO, i have a 55%-60 cash rate on poker prophecy over a couple hundred tournies, but still can go a whole day playing sngs and win one or two buy ins. I'd rather win that one buy with the chance of winning 100 with mtt's. Link to post Share on other sites
mangwansi 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 1. what is a sustainable cash rate. I understand there is a paradox of "going for it" and getting your money back, but where do pros want to be if you play an average stack game? Do you, or anyone esle knows how that should or could contrapose with final table appearences? 2. Sngs are no good IMO, i have a 55%-60 cash rate on poker prophecy over a couple hundred tournies, but still can go a whole day playing sngs and win one or two buy ins. I'd rather win that one buy with the chance of winning 100 with mtt's.If you're talking about ROI%, (Rate of Return on your tournaments), you'll be wanting anywhere from 12% to 55%. The reason for the violent fluctuation is the skill level; a good player will naturally have a ROI% of at least 40% at the lowest S&G's. Logically speaking, the higher the buy-in, the lower the ROI should get. where do pros want to be if you play an average stack game?I really don't know of any pros or any other people I know personally that ONLY depend on MTT's for the increase of their bankroll. As far as I'm concerned, big tournaments are just too risky to depend on for a dependable income, day in and day out. Your quote, but still can go a whole day playing sngs and win one or two buy ins, seems to follow the trend. I would suggest that you work on your ring game skills, as you seem to be a winning player earning .75 BB/100 but not nearly as good as you could be, and increase your bankroll steadily that way. User pokertracker to track your stats, progress, and previous hands. When you have added money on the side from your bankroll, use that to play the MTT's and tournies that you so desire, and who knows, you might hit it big. Add THAT to your bankroll and move up in limits when you've been routinely crushing your current limit. And so on and so forth. [/b] Link to post Share on other sites
mangwansi 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Oh yeah. Check out http://www.zeejustin.com for a guy who plays almost exclusively S&G's and MTT's for a living and makes a killing. Link to post Share on other sites
case ace 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Author Share Posted August 6, 2005 i do use it, and that's what i;;m saying.... on good months i'm 4.5/bb, and on bad i'm .75. At 2/100 that's about what a tourney cash of 66% will get me., plus you keep playing for the big money. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 If you're talking about ROI%, (Rate of Return on your tournaments), you'll be wanting anywhere from 12% to 55%. The reason for the violent fluctuation is the skill level; a good player will naturally have a ROI% of at least 40% at the lowest S&G's. Logically speaking, the higher the buy-in, the lower the ROI should get. where do pros want to be if you play an average stack game?I really don't know of any pros or any other people I know personally that ONLY depend on MTT's for the increase of their bankroll. As far as I'm concerned, big tournaments are just too risky to depend on for a dependable income, day in and day out. Your quote, but still can go a whole day playing sngs and win one or two buy ins, seems to follow the trend. I would suggest that you work on your ring game skills, as you seem to be a winning player earning .75 BB/100 but not nearly as good as you could be, and increase your bankroll steadily that way. User pokertracker to track your stats, progress, and previous hands. When you have added money on the side from your bankroll, use that to play the MTT's and tournies that you so desire, and who knows, you might hit it big. Add THAT to your bankroll and move up in limits when you've been routinely crushing your current limit. And so on and so forth.chris ferguson Link to post Share on other sites
mangwansi 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 He makes money representing FTP. I'm also pretty sure that he makes investments and has other business interests on the side apart from poker. When I meant bankroll, I meant how a person makes a living Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Monkey 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 So far i have a 66-70%ish cash rateyou are on a lucky run. that is unsustainable Link to post Share on other sites
Pudge714 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 If you're talking about ROI%, (Rate of Return on your tournaments), you'll be wanting anywhere from 12% to 55%. The reason for the violent fluctuation is the skill level; a good player will naturally have a ROI% of at least 40% at the lowest S&G's. Logically speaking, the higher the buy-in, the lower the ROI should get.What sng's do you play, because while 40% could be sustainable in the Stars sng or the Full Tilt sng's, in the 109's, or 215's on Party a 20% is a sustainable ROI for a good player. Link to post Share on other sites
Pudge714 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 So far i have a 66-70%ish cash rateyou are on a lucky run. that is unsustainableIs that unsustainable in an MTT though? Probably not for the OP or for that matter most people, but the whole point of MTT's is that it is deep stack poker, and relies less on luck and the cream rises to the crop so is that unsustainble in general? For the record I think the OP is slighlty exxagerating, or in the middle of a huge rush. Link to post Share on other sites
scottrude 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 All I konw is that I have had the same experience as of late. It seems like easy money, if time is of no concern. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Generally speaking, people report in on a message board like this, it's an upswing. When the downsing comes a knocking, the post takes on a different tone. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 Go Pro.lol. this was so sarcastic, it made me laugh out loud and spit out my water. Link to post Share on other sites
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