complicated 1/2 nlhe hand

[looshle 6]

Ok, most of the action in this hand is against one of my friends who I play alot with, so some of my moves may seem a little off because we know exactly how each other plays. Anyways, he's real good at reading and is extremely straight forward when its a multiway pot, trying to protect a hand he would most likely put all his chips in with if he had to, for example a set of 5s on a JT5 flop.I'm in the BB with 3 5 Villian is in the SB.I've got about $200 in front of me and am marginally covered by the Villian.UTG calls, fold, UTG+2 raises to $7, 3 folds, Villian asks how much the raiser has, he says $45, Villian calls, I call, UTG calls. $28 in the pot.Flop2 5 2 So I have top pair but I'm pretty sure it's not good. Villian comes out betting $20. This tells me he's got something like 6s-9s. I put the original raiser on AK, AQ, KQ, and I'm confident in the read, so I think if he is stubborn and re raises all in for $25 more my buddy will be tempted to fold especially if I flat call behind him.I call. UTG folds, UTG+2 folds. $68 in the pot.TurnQ Awesome card. I just picked up a flush draw and I'm trying to represent a 2 here with my flat call. Villian checks, I bet $30 and he goes into the tank. He never acts so I know he's really thinking about this. He comes back at me making it $50 more. I really cant put him on QQ because he would have rasied preflop. So I'm facing a $50 call with $178 in the pot. I took about 5 full minutes to finally act. Any thoughts?Villian has me covered.I have roughly $140 left in front of me, $90 if I call.

[Guest XXEddie]

you put him on a hand, go with your readsthough Im confused you didnt raise the flop with that hand, any card T-6 coulda hit that type of hand

[akishore 0]

i don't think i should read the rest of the hand before i learn stack sizes.they're REALLY important.aseem

[looshle 6]

you put him on a hand, go with your readsthough Im confused you didnt raise the flop with that hand, any card T-6 coulda hit that type of hand

I didn't raise the flop because I wasnt playing my hand. I only cared about my hand if the orignal raiser went all in because I though my 5s would be good. When the Villian bet out, I was trying to represent the 2 against him, i couldve had any 2 cards but when he re reaised me $50 I finally had to start playing MY cards. A raise on the flop tells him I don't have a 2 because it doesnt need much protecting.

[akishore 0]

i could be way off, but.i think villian has a 2 with a weak kicker and he actually got very scared by your call.since he isn't acting, i'm pretty sure he has just trips.you call here with the intent of calling/betting/raising all-in if you hit a flush on the river.getting 168-to-50 or more than 5-to-1 is a clean overlay.aseem

[looshle 6]

bump

[strategy 4]

Aseem is right. You don't have to count the implied odds to make this call--there's already enough in the pot. I do think you have some serious implied odds if you do hit a 5 or a club, though, and no real risk of an "iffy" card hitting on the river. His check-raise tells you he has trip 2s, if your read is correct.

[looshle 6]

Well my original read was a pocket pair between 7s and 10s but I lost all reads when he check raised me.

[strategy 4]

Well my original read was a pocket pair between 7s and 10s but I lost all reads when he check raised me.

You said you play with him a lot... does he know the odds for hitting basic draws?It's entirely possible that he could be knowingly giving you some rope to hang yourself with a flush draw against his QQ.

[looshle 6]

Well my original read was a pocket pair between 7s and 10s but I lost all reads when he check raised me.

You said you play with him a lot... does he know the odds for hitting basic draws?It's entirely possible that he could be knowingly giving you some rope to hang yourself with a flush draw against his QQ.

Yea he knows odds he's a fairly good player, but the flush would go runner runner so I'm not that sure he was thinking about clubs.

[MichaelShakes 0]

:shock:

[looshle 6]

Maybe he thinks you bet on a set of 2's on the flop but he wasn't sure. He maybe had straight draw with two clubs (as well) on the flop. Now with the queen of clubs, he's looking at a possible straight or flush draw to the river and wanted to push your possible (5's or set of 2's) out (or your possible lower flush draw).

I dont know many people who are gonna fold a 2 here.

[MichaelShakes 0]

:shock:

[Wallacer 0]

Now I've gone and gotten all interested. Can we get some results here? I'll throw my 2 cents in, I am guessing he hit a QJ or something, maybe Q-10. Then he'd be taking a stab because he doubts anyone connected with that flop coming off a raise. More likely he had a middle pocket pair in which case that flop is huge for him off a raise it's unlikely to run into a 2. tough read to make though without knowing the guy. Either way, you have to improve to take the pot, I doubt he's going anywhere on the river unless a very scary card comes, and your flush would be very under the radar, so obviously your implied odds are a huge factor here. Should be a call IMO, but you have to assume you're behind going into the river so it's tough.On second thought you also might be able to make a play on him on the river and push all in. If he is a middle pocket pair he will probably fold because of the Q.Hope it worked out-Wallacer

[looshle 6]

re bump it

[Blink20 0]

50 to win 178, with implied odds, 50 to win 268.I don't know where aseem was saying the implied odds didn't factor in, I think his math was off a little bit ;-)50 to win 178 is about 3.5-1 on your call.50 to win 268 is almost 5.5-1 which is exactly what you need about with one card to come on flush draw.The problem is, he could've already made a boat, but that's very unlikely. However, we do know that he is committed to this hand. Also, if he's sitting on trips, one of your flush cards may not be clean, as it makes his fullhouse.You also have two outs to a boat, the two remaining fives, I would probably say both of those are live. So taking away one flush card, and adding two boat cards, I would say you are 10 outs to win this hand. Getting 5.5-1 with implied odds, this would be a break even play.However, the times he hits his boat card, and you hit yoru flush card on the river, you have to pay him off. Since you are not getting much overlay on your price, I really don't think its worth it.I fold in this spot.

[loogie 115]

Umm.....fold preflop?

[Blink20 0]

Umm.....fold preflop?

I think its a fine call preflop with all players having deep chip stacks.SO long as he plays it well postflop, he can flop a monster and get paid with deception of his hand.

[RayPowers 0]

Umm.....fold preflop?

Well, I'm glad it wasn't just me on this one. There was a raise and a reraise preflop, and it means chunking off 25% of your chipstack preflop with a 35suited. I would have folded.If some insane urge to 'defend my miniscule blind with $40 more' does strike, unless a deck full of clubs hit the board, I think you need to bail out on the pot, even with top pair. Perhaps I am too weak tight for your limit game. *shrug*Ray

[strategy 4]

Umm.....fold preflop?

Well, I'm glad it wasn't just me on this one. There was a raise and a reraise preflop, and it means chunking off 25% of your chipstack preflop with a 35suited. I would have folded.If some insane urge to 'defend my miniscule blind with $40 more' does strike, unless a deck full of clubs hit the board, I think you need to bail out on the pot, even with top pair. Perhaps I am too weak tight for your limit game. *shrug*Ray

Villain only asked how much, he didn't put the $45 raise in. I agree that calling $40 is absurd, but the hero only called the raise to 7.

[RayPowers 0]

Villain only asked how much, he didn't put the $45 raise in. I agree that calling $40 is absurd, but the hero only called the raise to 7.

o. well damn maybe if I could read I'd be better at this....Ray

[loogie 115]

I still think this is a preflop fold.I understand that a flopped monster can help you stack someone, but that is a rare occurance. It is much more rare than what actually happened: hero got a small piece, made a very loose flop call after saying that he thought he was behind, and then got a flush draw with 5 high.This is a situation where you bleed chips.

[Blink20 0]

This is a situation where you bleed chips.

Yes, if you don't play it well postflop.Making a loose call like this preflop with this type of hand, you really need to flop big or get out, and you can get a good return on your money.If however you play it poorly when yo uget a small piece, you are bleeding chips away.But, you can make it work :-)

[loogie 115]

Yes, if you don't play it well postflop.

Agreed. Had I called preflop, I'm folding this to the flop bet.

[looshle 6]

Well I was getting over 3:1, more like 4:1 preflop with utg calling behind me. The stacks are deep enough to make this an easy call, and I only called based on my reads, liek I said I wasnt playing my hand against the Villian I was playing against what I thought he had.