excellent read / horrible play?

[Elpedro 0]

by the way did you win the tourney?

You two remind me of exactly a friend of me and a friend of mine. We play together at least twice a week in live games and argue over every hand we get into together. It's funny to be on the outside looking in. Chalk it up to learning together.

[jasonmason 0]

That's true.. The play won't leave my arsenal against him though. Because I know that he knows that I might think that. Or something like that. It makes sense I swear. I can fake this play now with a made hand. Or I can fake fake this play with crap again. Nothing changes and he might be able to read me but he can't untie the knots I'm running.I just can't see why he'd call a bet of 70 on the flop though after you have it all figured out. If you re-raise there, you get a pot of 200 chips with no risk. By calling your putting yourself in a marginal situation on the turn even if the card helps nobody. Chances are you're not dominating with 3 outs, chances are you're dominated. I was trying to represent a high pair and he read me but really a wheel draw or a low pair had him dominated. and virtually any other hand was probably a coin flip who was ahead.if his decision was made on the flop that he was calling me down and would put all his chips in the pot if need be, it doesn't make any sense to take that risk if nessacery with a marginal hand.

[cardcore 0]

Yeah, I ended up winning.The point is, you made the mistake by re-raising PF with a marginal hand, and I made the mistake of not moving in on the flop myself. There were no straights and no flushes on the board, and I was 100% sure you missed. It came down to who had the better nothing, and I really didn't think you had Ax. I knew your PF bet was a feeler bet, which also told me that you didn't have an ace in your hand, but you did have a face card and a decent kicker.You tend to forget that you don't mix up your betting styles either. The way you were betting was screaming that you missed. You knew I missed that flop too, and if you really had something you would have been betting smaller amounts. If you had asked me to tell you your cards before you turned them over, my first bet would have been QJ suited.Between your betting and your general table presence, the call wasn't as bad as you really think it is. It was horribly difficult to make, and more times than not it's completely wrong. But look at the information that I have (or think I have) and understand my thought process before saying it's a horrible call.There are more factors in the decision that looking at the cards I have and looking at the board.

[blahdot3h 0]

A situation similar to this has come up at my local game before also. Player A has a ridiculous read on Player B and is able to call down on the river with K or Q high at any given time knowing that he is good because of the read he has on the player. It is something that you can't really comment on from the outside unless you have played with the other person for an extended period of time and know whether or not the reads you have on him are that accurate or not. We don't know whether or not his read on you is exceptional to the point where he knows when you are reraising him preflop with garbage etc. I've seen people who have such exceptional reads on others that they can make outrageous calls like this and get paid for them. It is completely situational.

[foldnrun 0]

jasonmason was holding his breath :(He didn't speak, just nodded to the yes or no question ... didn't breathe, vein visible in his neck.  

so uh... where does jasonmason usually play cards at in a casino?furthermore... can i play with him sometime?

[cardcore 0]

I was actually looking into his soul, Bill Fillmaff style. I had proper UV protection.

[jasonmason 0]

ok i got owned and im pissed because no other person in the world would be able to make that play.it was still a fish play and ive burned him calling me down plenty of times for a lot of chips.cardcore admits he misplayed the flop. ill take it.

[cardcore 0]

ok i got owned and im censored because no other person in the world would be able to make that play.it was still a fish play and ive burned him calling me down plenty of times for a lot of chips.cardcore admits he misplayed the flop. ill take it.

You're halfway there on giving me credit, and that's progress

[Men the Hellmuth 0]

When someone makes a great call on me, all i do is knock the table a couple of times and tell them their hand is good.... everyone makes a good call once in a while, you just have to give credit where credit is due.... ive been called down with ace high and ive been called down with pocket 2's... and vice versa.... it happens... just be a man and knock the table.... :wink:

[jasonmason 0]

It just hit me he called me earlier in the night when I was down to 190 or so and doubled me up. I raised PF with A-9 and he called with K-7. Flop came 9-7-x and he thought I had overs again. I got all my chips in easily on the flop and doubled up.he always has to see it

[FullHouseAAA88 0]

This is poker jason. Good call/bad call? It's simple. If it's a good call, he won. If it's a bad call, he lost. Next hand. :wink:

[cardcore 0]

It just hit me he called me earlier in the night when I was down to 190 or so and doubled me up. I raised PF with A-9 and he called with K-7. Flop came 9-7-x and he thought I had overs again. I got all my chips in easily on the flop and doubled up.he always has to see it

This is how the hand went. But I did double you up. (3 handed)The hand before, someone cracked your big hand with a pretty bad hand, and you made a huge overbet PF from the SB in the next hand. The blinds were still 1/2, and you raised to 25 chips. I had Kd 7d on the BB, and figured I would call because I had a decent amount of chips in front of me and you were steaming, maybe I'd hit and take some more from you.The flop came 9-7-4, and I hit middle pair. I figured you might be raising from the outset to protect a hand like AK or AQ from hands like 8 3 and 9 4, because you got sucked out a few hands in a row. You made a pot sized bet and I pushed, pretty much thinking I'd take it down right there because you missed the flop. Or even better, you'd call with 2 overs. Instead, you called with TPTK, and I doubled you up. It's not like "I always have to see it." I didn't exactly put you on A9 with that 12BB PF raise. So yeah, I thought you had overs. It wasn't really much of a stretch of the imagination to see why. The whole game was a real crapshoot anyway.Come on man, stop already and just swallow your pride. I made a call that you wouldn't ever make, but that doesn't make it wrong.

[myOakleys 0]

that was a very good read by the other guybut it was a horrible play by you, he called the first 70 that u fired out which means that hes almost pot commmited with the 58 that he put in earlierit was pointless for u to push in the rest of your chips on a middle strength handa 10 kiker isnt that high and theres 2 other cards that would make his better than yours, or even any pair and u lost tooand by the sounds of it, you have the absolute worst poker face

[jasonmason 0]

u r teh gay.I made a big overbet preflop because I couldn't get any flops heads up with anyone. Every time you just called Jay would just call too. Well you both called anyway. I flopped TPTK and then I made a pot sized bet which was about a third of my chips and you re-raised all in with middle pair. Good job.You make the game a crapshoot by opening the betting and calling huge re-raises with hands like 2-3 off.

[jasonmason 0]

my preflop bet on that hand was a re-raise also. You raised to 8 i believe. And jay called so I raised 25 on top to get one of you out. No dice

[SuperJon 175]

Let me explain to some of you who seem to be bashing jason as to why his friend made a terrible call with king high.There are a little over 20 different combinations of hands that beat K-J. So his friend is about a 20 to 1 dog and getting about 2.5 to 1 on the money. If his read was really so strong he would've pushed all in on the flop, instead he just called the flop bet and gave Jason a free card on the turn. Bad call.Don't let it get to you though Jason, he'll make a call like that again in the future, and you'll bust him with bottom pair.

[SuM827 0]

Let me explain to some of you who seem to be bashing jason as to why his friend made a terrible call with king high.There are a little over 20 different combinations of hands that beat K-J.  So his friend is about a 20 to 1 dog and getting about 2.5 to 1 on the money.  If his read was really so strong he would've pushed all in on the flop, instead he just called the flop bet and gave Jason a free card on the turn.  Bad call.Don't let it get to you though Jason, he'll make a call like that again in the future, and you'll bust him with bottom pair.

Nice, but in reality his friend is a 5.5 to 1 favorite. Did Cardcore lose his mind? No, he called with what he thought was the best hand, he was right.

[SuperJon 175]

Let me explain to some of you who seem to be bashing jason as to why his friend made a terrible call with king high.There are a little over 20 different combinations of hands that beat K-J.  So his friend is about a 20 to 1 dog and getting about 2.5 to 1 on the money.  If his read was really so strong he would've pushed all in on the flop, instead he just called the flop bet and gave Jason a free card on the turn.  Bad call.Don't let it get to you though Jason, he'll make a call like that again in the future, and you'll bust him with bottom pair.

Nice, but in reality his friend is a 5.5 to 1 favorite. Did Cardcore lose his mind? No, he called with what he thought was the best hand, he was right.

all i'm saying is that there are a lot of hands out there that beat his friend's K-J, and anyone who makes calls like that with K high will lose in the long run.

[DB10-2 0]

also, what's with the blind structure? you say it's late in the tournament, but the blinds are 4% of the starting stacks? what's the point?

[speedz99 145]

yup. if you ended up winning the hand.

Because we all know that whoever wins the hand made the better play.I think it's a bad call. What are you putting him on? If it's A high you are dead. If it's not A high than it is either a face-rag or rag-rag, in which case he very well could have hit his rag. His bluff could very easily have been with bottom pair. I just think there are VERY few hands that you have beat. K10 just happens to be one of those few. Great read, poor call.

[speedz99 145]

I see two possibilities for the lack of response:1. You cannot deny my incredibly solid logic2. You have all stopped posting for the nightSo of all the people who posted that this was a good call...nobody wants to argue with me?Pussies.

[Abbaddabba 0]

There are a little over 20 different combinations of hands that beat K-J. So his friend is about a 20 to 1 dog and getting about 2.5 to 1 on the money.

Wow, how insightful. Please tell me more. [/jimmy]

[Chiggleslap 0]

yup. if you ended up winning the hand.

I had more respect for you.What was I thinking?

[cursive34 0]

this hand went bad when you re-raised with K-10. see what happens when you play hands that are easily dominated

[holman3rd 0]

Calling an all in for 200 more when you have 130 invested in a pot, when you have K-J with four undercards is a terrible call. It's not gambling. Even if someone is crying out in weakness it's brutal.JUST TELL ME HE MADE A BAD CALL!!! :cry:

I gotta side with jason on this one. First, we don't know what villian put jason on, other than "he didn't want a call."Second, Jason re-raised preflop, which villian would supposedly read as a hand stronger than KJ.Any Ace beats villian here, as does KQ or any pair.Good read by villian, but bad call thinking KJ was good. Regardless of whether jason played the hand correctly, there is nothing in the betting sequence that would make villian think that KJ was good. Just my opinion.