luck vs skill

[dkwild 0]

Hi Daniel, My name is Dean. I am a tight aggress NL holdem tourny online player. I consistently get my chips in with the best hand preflop or immediately postflop aginst the only one caller that I wanted. I am tired of getting outdrawn. Yes I realize it SHOULD equal out in the long run. Yes I realize be careful how often U expose ALL your chips, even as the fav. Yes I realize be careful of flop textures before proceeding slightly overbetting the flop. Yes I realize if your playing BIG cards aginst ring game, limit the competition seeing the flop. Yes I realize its important to be the big stack at the table to push people around and not have ONE bad beat eliminate me from the tourny. I know bad beats are part of all forms of poker, but what major poker game has the least luck and most skill? And why? I love NL holdem because I can give people incorrect pot odds to proceed. Even though somebody always does proceed and continues to outdraw me. Please dont suggest Lim Holdem, with the mindset I cant lose ALL my chips to one bad beat. Yes PL holdem can help my cause, but I cant take people off starting hands preflop early in the tourny when blinds are low. I really like the ability in NL holdem to get people to call my AK occasional all in preflop with AJ, even though I get outdrawn as the 3-1 fav. Do I need to try to play high stakes NL holdem tournys, where better players will fold occasionally when they KNOW they are behind? How do I get my bankroll there though? It is amazing how many people dont know what domination is. It is amazing how many people overplay small and medium pairs. It is amazing how many anysuited cards are played. I play perfect poker and unless I run into an absolute monster, get most of my chips in at least 90% of the time as the favorite. I am NOT referrring to races as outdrawn, as I try to stay away from luck determining my tourny fate. Its Phil Helmuth that always says.. "if U knew the other persons hole cards.. U could win evry tourny." I dont believe that because I always get my chips in against just one caller as the BIG FAVORITE, but get outdrawn over 80% of the time. I know the turn and river count evn though most of my betting is done by the flop, where I get the dog to commit. I know I may get too many all in commitments preflop as the huge fav, but if I play few hands and get my chips in with the best of it, shouldnt I win in the long run when the board hits? I mean 2 of the last 3 times I had aces, AK outdrew me. The first time it was early in the tourny, blinds 10-20 and starting chips of 1000. In middle position I raise to 200 and get the ONE caller I wanted from late postion. Flop come K,8,3 rainbow. I go all in hoping he had KQ. He calls for all his chips with AK. He gets the 2 outer on the turn. The other time I go all in preflop with aces knowing I would get a caller. Sure enough AK suited calls my all in for all their chips and hits the flush. Yes those were extreme examples, but I can give you thousands of other every day examples, time and time again. What is wrong if I cant get all preflop with AK and beat AJ over the long run? What is wrong with playing few hands but expecting to double up as 3-1 favorite? As you can see this luck aspect of the game really bothers me. I have seen every DVD, studied every tv show many times over, read evry book twice, follow evry website daily, ran hand against hand calculations, played thousands of hands online, etc...I have invested alot of time and feel very frustrated. I love poker. I play disciplined aggress poker and have the best of it over 90% of the time. So again.. what poker game can I now learn and focus on, that has the MOST SKILL? And Why?I admire your abilites, knowledge, experience, and persevrance. Hope to hear from you soon.Dean

[kidFlack64 0]

yo, you just said u play perfect poker......hahahahahahahahahaha

[Guest XXEddie]

I play perfect poker I stopped reading youre post at that time and I give you 2 suggestions1) Do not address posts to Daniel. He doesnt live on this forum and do not expect him to search the forum and answer everyones questions.2) Dude, shut the fuck up. Honestly. I doubt you play perfect poker because you be such a winning player you wouldnt have time to bitch about all of your bad beats. I dont care that you "almost always get your money in as a favorite" because honestly no you dont. If you really were good at poker you would realize that much of the time you either are forced to put your money in as a dog, knowing you dont have the best hand, or you just run into one of those hands like AA v KK. Im betting the odds have evened out you just dont realize it. Its like whats said in Rounders, "Few players recall big pots they've won strange as it seems, but every player can recall with remarkable accuracy the tremendous tough beats if their career" What this means that lets say you just finished a session in which you were involved in 2 big pots, both of them pair against pair. Once you outdraw with the lower pairWhich I know wouldnt happen because you never get your money in as a dog, but lets just pretend for purposes of this postThe other hand you get outdrawn by a lower pair. The qoute means you probably are only going to remember the bad beat. Youre going to go to sleep having nightmares about that hand, instead of having dreams about getting lucky in the big potsI assume if I acually read the rest of your post I would have a lot more to say ,but that comment shows me how stupid you really are, "I play perfect poker" please.... NO ONE PLAYS PERFECT POKER. Not Doyle, not Stu Ungar, not Smash, not anybody, Everybody makes mistakes/misreads/bad bets but you know what, THAT POKER. it does get annoying to say over and voer but THAT POKER. And I find it hard to beleive you are as good as you say if you cant even realize that.Good day sir.

[dkwild 0]

XXEddie, You make me laugh man. First off, your pic is hilarious. Secondly, I addressed the post to Daniel hoping he or his assistant Travis would get the message that could lead to a good topic.. say for one of his articles or new book. The question is.. what poker game has the most skill and why? I addressed it to Daniel because I dont care about your opinion, supposed expertise, or suggestions. I dont expect him to answer other people's questions. But my topic is heavily debated amongst the pros and I have not heard his opinion yet. I make time to email or chat with the pros and use all available resources. What are you doing looking at other people's posts? Do you think you are a better player than them or me? Do you think other people need or want your opinion? I want and need the opinion of someone who plays for larger stakes than me. I want and need the opinionof someone who has played more hands than me. Someone who has played more other (not holdem) poker games than me. Dont tell me my chips dont go in as the favorite over 90% of the time, unless I am short stacked. I know how often I have the best of it. Even if other players went in knowing they were a dog doesnt matter. I want and expect hands to generally hold up. Dont tell me I tend to forget those times that my times do hold up. I know when I lose my final hand in a tourny my chips are going in preflop or immediately postflop with the best of it. Or all my chips simply would not go in at that time. I may have alot more to learn about poker, but I know when I am the favorite. Sure there could be other problems with my game like playing to tight or folding a winner to often. Regardless, by perfect poker, I mean my final hand in the tourny where all my chips going in as the favorite. U keep reading other people's posts and watching poker glamour movies. I have fish to fry. You become what you surround yourself with. I want and am open to advice from a serious professional. I want suggestions from somebody that eats, breathes, and sleeps poker like me. Good luck

[Kendren 1]

XXEddie, You make me laugh man. First off, your pic is hilarious. Secondly, I addressed the post to Daniel hoping he or his assistant Travis would get the message that could lead to a good topic.. say for one of his articles or new book. The question is.. what poker game has the most skill and why? I addressed it to Daniel because I dont care about your opinion, supposed expertise, or suggestions. I dont expect him to answer other people's questions. But my topic is heavily debated amongst the pros and I have not heard his opinion yet. I make time to email or chat with the pros and use all available resources. What are you doing looking at other people's posts? Do you think you are a better player than them or me? Do you think other people need or want your opinion? I want and need the opinion of someone who plays for larger stakes than me. I want and need the opinionof someone who has played more hands than me. Someone who has played more other (not holdem) poker games than me. Dont tell me my chips dont go in as the favorite over 90% of the time, unless I am short stacked. I know how often I have the best of it. Even if other players went in knowing they were a dog doesnt matter. I want and expect hands to generally hold up. Dont tell me I tend to forget those times that my times do hold up. I know when I lose my final hand in a tourny my chips are going in preflop or immediately postflop with the best of it. Or all my chips simply would not go in at that time. I may have alot more to learn about poker, but I know when I am the favorite. Sure there could be other problems with my game like playing to tight or folding a winner to often. Regardless, by perfect poker, I mean my final hand in the tourny where all my chips going in as the favorite. U keep reading other people's posts and watching poker glamour movies. I have fish to fry. You become what you surround yourself with. I want and am open to advice from a serious professional. I want suggestions from somebody that eats, breathes, and sleeps poker like me. Good luck

I see. So only Daniel (who I guarantee you doesn't read this particular forum) can help you. Interesting. Good luck with that.

[dkwild 0]

Wow Kendren, U are amazing that you can guarantee me that Daniel, his assistant, and his friends dont occasionally browse this forum. Not looking for nor expecting a reply in this forum. Curious to see the topic discussed in one of his many synidicated articles though I have discussed this topic with many other pros though through emails and chats. Guys like Gus Hansen, Bob Ciafonne, Brad Doughtery, and Roy Cooke. So dont worry about me landing top advice. But I do appreciate your concern and guarantees. lol

[Kendren 1]

Wow Kendren,  U are amazing that you can guarantee me that Daniel, his  assistant, and his friends dont occasionally browse this forum. Not looking for nor expecting a reply in this forum. Curious to see the topic discussed in one of his many synidicated articles though  I have discussed this topic with many other pros though through emails and chats.  Guys like Gus Hansen, Bob Ciafonne, Brad Doughtery, and Roy Cooke. So dont worry about me landing top advice. But I do appreciate your concern and guarantees.  lol

Congratualtions. Have a cookie.

[Guest XXEddie]

I addressed the post to Daniel hoping he or his assistant Travis would get the message I almost stop reading at that point I addressed it to Daniel because I dont care about your opinion, supposed expertise, or suggestionsand now Im done reading itMaybe your posts do have a point, but if you keeping saying dumb crap like that Im not going to read it.Now, my point, why would you post something on a PUBLIC FORUM(public means anyone can read and reply to it) when you only care about Daniels response. Stupid newbs like you crack me up, you idiots post things addressed to Daniel on a PUBLIC FORUM then you get mad when other people respond. You need to realize that Daniel does not have the time to browse through every single thread and answer any and all question directed to him, ESPECIALLY if they are in the bad beat forumagain, I probably would have more to say, but your stupid comments keep making me stop reading, which I guess is your intention, so.....good job.....:roll: If I had a nickel for every dumb newbie on this site...........

[Chiggleslap 0]

dkwild:you are a f.ucking idiot.that's all.bye.

[dkwild 0]

Yo silly Eddie, Its ok if you want to read my post. Maybe U can learn something. I dont care if the public reads nor responds to my post. But I will try all avenues to reach top advice. Many of those avenues have already worked. Again, you dont know how any if this info may or might not make it to Daniel. So only speak on what you know about. Again, not expecting Daniel to actually reply in this forum anyway. He has many other ways to write about poker, and who knows.. might actually run out of a topic someday. So keep reading other people's posts and making replys if it makes you feel smart. lolMaybe it will improve even your play. Or have u not actually played any poker yet? Its funny because I have not read nor responded to anybody else's posts.Guess my ego doesnt need to be fed. Get a life.

[Guest XXEddie]

Maybe U can learn something.I have learned something from your posts, those are-You play perfect poker-You always get your money in as a favorie-You always get outdrawn-You always bitch about bad beatsThank you, for if it werent for you I would not know about this information and thanks to that information I am now dumber

[Chiggleslap 0]

dkwild:you are a f.ucking idiot.that's all.bye.

[Guest XXEddie]

Yo silly Eddie, Its ok if you want to read my post. Maybe U can learn something. I dont care if the public reads nor responds to my post. But I will try all avenues to reach top advice. Many of those avenues have already worked. Again, you dont know how any if this info may or might not make it to Daniel. So only speak on what you know about. Again, not expecting Daniel to actually reply in this forum anyway. He has many other ways to write about poker, and who knows.. might actually run out of a topic someday. So keep reading other people's posts and making replys if it makes you feel smart. lolMaybe it will improve even your play. Or have u not actually played any poker yet? Its funny because I have not read nor responded to anybody else's posts.Guess my ego doesnt need to be fed. Get a life.

I decided to acually read this post even with all the stupidityGet life, eh?First off, I have a very peaceful life which involves poker and work, and I enjoy very muchsecond,.....dude, youre sitting in a bad beat forum on a computer bitching about how you play perfect poker, always get the money in as a favorite, and get outdrawn....looks like Im not the only one who needs a life

[Kendren 1]

You should have taken the cookie.

[krup24 0]

My name is Dean

Now offically known as Dean the Douche

Yes I realize it SHOULD equal out in the long run. Yes I realize be careful how often U expose ALL your chips, even as the fav. Yes I realize be careful of flop textures before proceeding slightly overbetting the flop. Yes I realize if your playing BIG cards aginst ring game, limit the competition seeing the flop. Yes I realize its important to be the big stack at the table to push people around and not have ONE bad beat eliminate me from the tourny.

Your a fucking genious.

I love NL holdem because I can give people incorrect pot odds to proceed. Even though somebody always does proceed and continues to outdraw me.

Your a fucking mad scientist.

As you can see this luck aspect of the game really bothers me. I have seen every DVD

Your obviously refering to RoundersSeriously your are the biggest fucking idiot to ever step foot on this forum.

[Kendren 1]

Here, Krup, you can have his cookie.

[Andersun 0]

http://home.nc.rr.com/inbedwithhomer/argui...ng_internet.jpg

[nrs02004 0]

Dude, when you spew an a_ss blast all over the forum clearly people are gonna think that you're a huge a_ss blaster, so I have a couple of words of advice for you.1)Wear a but plug. If you can't control a-nal spewage then clearly you can't leave it open while you browse forums.2) Instead of "put your money where your mouth is," put your mouth where your a-ss is so that you can talk rather than giving us a c-rapshoot."3) AND FINALLY ... ALL REDS ISN'T WORTH ANYTHING IN POKER... I mean c'mon you must really suck dude. Even I could stomp you, probably with my eyes closed and my forehead sewed to my foreskin.Oh and have a nice day =) I hope DN reads this post and decides to give me lessons instead of you, both because that would be so heinously awesome, and because I could rub it in your face from now 'till forever.

[nrs02004 0]

You my friend, are a huge ****