big stacked tight pussies!

[digitalmonkey 929]

I'd like some opinions on tournament play where a very short stack is in desperation mode and as a result is going all in repeatedly AND the big stacks are refusing to call. Does this kind of play make you laugh or drive you nuts...or do you really not care?

[BPV 0]

While I would like the big stacks to take everyone out (oddly enough, a lot of times I am the chip leader... ) nothing, and i mean NOTHING, bothers me more than the following situation. person 1 has 490 in chipsperson 2 has 680 in chipschip leader has 6k in chips2nd place has 4.5k in cihpsperson 1 folds every hand for 2 full rounds, then goes all in under the gun.. obviously this person has been waiting for a hand, and goes all in. The chip leader calls with a marginal hand (a lot of times its not rare to see them call with a 10 high) Person 1 doubles up. and typically, if thats the kind of person the chip leader is, he will double up person 2 as well.. thus taking us back to where we were. If im going to take someone out, I am going to do it on my terms and make sure they do not receive a single chip more than they should. I will raise their blinds and put htem to the test, rather than have them go all in when they feel they have the best of it.

[Vegas King 0]

BPV is absolutely right. Why chip leaders think they must try to knock people out all the time is beyond me. Even pro's do this. If you watched the Superstars event that Howard Lederer won, he was a very short stack and twice Gus Hansen called him with very poor cards heads up. Twice Howard won and then went on to win the tournament while Gus was knocked out 4th.The goal should be building your stacks not knocking out players.

[ErikM 0]

I know where your coming from Monkey...But I have to agree with the previous post... I would rather see chip leaders be selecive about which hands they will call a small all-in with rather than having them do it with two garbage cards and doubling the short stack up...

[elkang 0]

As a strategy is is good having these short stacks around (i.e. not knock them out)... it's easier for the big stack to push them around and steal blinds while these small stacks are all vying for survival - you can bust them in one hand and this is power. This also applies when you have a multi (two?) table situation where knocking out a player will combine the tables -- it's better to even laydown a pretty good premium hand to an all-in so you can keep running your big stack mojo all over the table.

[pokerplayer75 0]

BPV is absolutely right. Why chip leaders think they must try to knock people out all the time is beyond me. Even pro's do this. If you watched the Superstars event that Howard Lederer won, he was a very short stack and twice Gus Hansen called him with very poor cards heads up. Twice Howard won and then went on to win the tournament while Gus was knocked out 4th.The goal should be building your stacks not knocking out players.

I wouldn't say pros do this. Gus Hanson is just a reckless player. There was another Superstars where Hanson called Lederers all in of 100,000 with only another 10,000 in the pot wih K Q. He caught the queen and knocked Lederer out.

[KidKanuck 0]

I will raise their blinds and put htem to the test, rather than have them go all in when they feel they have the best of it.

I believe this is absolutely right. it makes them protect thier blinds...or get blinded off fast...this also puts you in the power position.my 2 cents,KK

[Karis13 0]

Also the person who is short stacked is most likely to be waiting for a hand to go all-in with. I'm not going to gamble my big stack way with 9-3 offsuit or Q-rag in hopes to out gamble my opponent. My position is protected being one of the chips leaders. Leave it to other short stacks who have to decide when to make a move. However, if you have a playable hand and a short stack is in the blinds, now it is correct to raise and blind him out.

[ErikM 0]

Since we are on the subject...If you were the big stack in this situation... what is the absolute worst hand you would call the all in with.lets say you have a 10-1 advantage in chips. Any pair?Any two cards higher than 9?Any Ace?

[Mister Hand 0]

While I would like the big stacks to take everyone out (oddly enough, a lot of times I am the chip leader... ) nothing, and i mean NOTHING, bothers me more than the following situation. person 1 has 490 in chipsperson 2 has 680 in chipschip leader has 6k in chips2nd place has 4.5k in cihpsperson 1 folds every hand for 2 full rounds, then goes all in under the gun.. obviously this person has been waiting for a hand, and goes all in. The chip leader calls with a marginal hand (a lot of times its not rare to see them call with a 10 high) Person 1 doubles up. and typically, if thats the kind of person the chip leader is, he will double up person 2 as well.. thus taking us back to where we were.

This example doesn't mean much unless we know what the blinds are in relation to the stacks, and if those big stacks are in the blind when the short stack goes all-in. If the blinds in this situation were 150-300, and one of the big stacks is in the BB when the 490 player goes all-in, he should call with any two cards. If he's in the small blind, he may want to be a tad more selective, but he should still call most of the time.

[wrto4556 0]

If the situation is just right. I'll call with 97o.Does this make me a maniac?

[ErikM 0]

Yup..

[BPV 0]

To the poster that mentioned my post is only relevent if we know the blinds.. you are completely correct, but I left those details out just to keep some sanity in this thread. Countless number of times ive found myself in the big blind and have someone go all in, and its like 100 chips or something to me to call.. and i remember calling with something like a 9 high. Obviously there will be some times when you should call and sometimes when you shouldn't...as for who asked when i would call the all in.. id call with any pair... I don't like calling with ace rag usually.. because most shortstacks will wait for a hand with an ace.. unless its their big.. then ill push with an Ax hoping to hit them with a qx or something.

[the_stein 0]

If I'm a big stack and the shortstack has hardly anything and it doesn't effect me I will call his all in with 23o, if I'm big stack in a shorthanded table I'm probably raising every other hand

[Jensen 0]

I like tight pussies. :twisted: bad joke.

[Smasharoo 0]

BPV is absolutely right. Why chip leaders think they must try to knock people out all the time is beyond me. Even pro's do this.Because it's ussually the correct play.That's why.You'll figure out why the longer you play.

[wrto4556 0]

If the situation is just right. I'll call with 97o.Does this make me a maniac?

I don't know why I do this...I just feel like it's the correct thing to do. I have absolutely no reason to do it other than that it feels right. Smash, please explain to me why it's correct to do so.

[Smasharoo 0]

Well, with 79 you'd need the overlay in the pot to be fairly substantial as it's unlikely you're ahead of even a randomg hand.That bieng said, if someone is pushing in with a tiny stack relative to blind size, like 2X or 3X I'd call too.

[wrto4556 0]

97 is a coin flip to any random hand. But I'm not calling a 10xbb with it.

[Smasharoo 0]

Is it?Maybe I should start calling with it more :)Seriously, though, you'd like to have at leat something reasonable to call with which you will most of the time.

[fluxer 0]

Usually it comes down to style; some people like to win tournaments and some people like to maximize payout.I think for the more skilled players that want to outright win any tournament they enter, it is correct to make risky plays which allow the acquisition of more power with only marginal risk. Attempting to bust short stacks with marginal hands is usually a correct play (if that is your style).

[Guest XXEddie]

I'd like some opinions on tournament play where a very short stack is in desperation mode and as a result is going all in repeatedly AND the big stacks are refusing to call. Does this kind of play make you laugh or drive you nuts...or do you really not care?

You know how short stacks win a tourney?? By having stupid big stacks call their all-ins with Q high

[Guest XXEddie]

I'd like some opinions on tournament play where a very short stack is in desperation mode and as a result is going all in repeatedly AND the big stacks are refusing to call. Does this kind of play make you laugh or drive you nuts...or do you really not care?

You know how short stacks win a tourney?? By having stupid big stacks call their all-ins with Q high

[fishfeet 0]

You know how short stacks win a tourney?? By having stupid big stacks call their all-ins with Q high

Exactly - our last tourny ($20 - 19 players) we had a player down to 27 chips (500 starting chips)Blinds were at 10/20 I think and he ended up going allin with a Q high. He got 3 or 4 callers.. he won.He ended up doing it again, got a caller or 2, doubled/tripled up.By the time we got to the final 9 he was the chip leader and nearly had more chips than everyone else combined. By 7 handed, he did.Now this guy plays with us often and he is a maniac with no real poker knowledge. For example, in a cash game, I had flopped a club flush.. he didnt many chips left, but bet anyway. Knowing how he plays and how much he will gamble with ANYTHING, i put him allin for not much more.. he called with K high and not even one club. He was drawing dead on the flop.Anyway, back to the tourny - he had so many chips that he was able to play nearly every hand. He would call all-ins from the shortstacks with 8 high.. if he was calling those, i really wonder what he was actually folding!But at this point I was encouraging his play. At 6 or 7 handed, I found myself in 2nd place with only 700 chips! (remember, 500 starting, 19 players)I wanted him to knock out everyone. The cards were hitting for him.At 5 handed (4 paid out) I layed down all kinds of quality hands knowing I would be called.. and now sitting in 3rd or 4th in chips... and one other person with less than one round of blinds left.I layed down A-10, A-Q, K-Q, small and middle pairs. I actually got a good rush of cards while waiting for the small stack to finish 5th... but I folded them all.. and sure enough, the small stack went out (he went all in and everyone else called except me.. pocket Jacks didnt reraise so that there would be more in the pot to take the small stack! GOOD PLAY! :)Anyway.. the moral of the story is, the big stacks can play 2 ways. In one case, the short stack can be doubled up or more several times. And then this crazy player somehow gets the chip lead and then proceeds to take out EVERYONE at the final table.However, with the chip stack he had, I think it was the right play. Having 7500 chips out of 9500 5 handed, he could afford to play every hand and call allins with anything. And, it worked.Wow, this was a long first post

[ddudley 0]

BPV is absolutely right. Why chip leaders think they must try to knock people out all the time is beyond me. Even pro's do this. If you watched the Superstars event that Howard Lederer won, he was a very short stack and twice Gus Hansen called him with very poor cards heads up. Twice Howard won and then went on to win the tournament while Gus was knocked out 4th.The goal should be building your stacks not knocking out players.

That was the first tournament and Gus was really just trying to establish a loose table image and didn't really care if he won or lost the first round. Watch his post game interview, you can tell he's amused that it took him that long to get knocked out. You will also notice that he tighened up a lot in the later rounds and was able to get a lot of loose calls with his loose table image.