hold'em starting hand question

[Dixie Wrecked 0]

What odds are needed to call a poor to marginal starting hand pre flop?something like 5 to 1?

[akishore 0]

pot odds don't apply pre-flop.position and looseness and aggressiveness of table are what matter.(implied odds can be sneaked in there, but that's part of looseness and aggressiveness of table.)aseem

[HtotheNootch 0]

Depends entirely. What is the level of players at the table? How well do you play the flop? How good is your position?

[Smasharoo 0]

pot odds don't apply pre-flop. Um, no.Of course they apply.You'd call a raise with any two cards in the BB if it was ten handed to you after an UTG raise.Well, you should anyway.

[akishore 0]

pot odds strictly in themselves don't apply.it's not like you play 87s if your pot odds on this hand are 6-to-1 or better, but fold if it's 5-to-1 or worse.in your example, you call not because of the pot odds really, but because it's damn evident that the table is extremely loose, which means your implied odds are fantastic.aseem

[JesseW316 0]

What odds are needed to call a poor to marginal starting hand pre flop?something like 5 to 1?

This is like asking "What do I do when I have two pair in POKER?"Give us some real information and we will answer.LHE/NLHE?Shorthanded/Full?Loose/Tight image?Loose/Tight table?Good player/Beginner?What is a "poor to marginal hand"? Give a specific hand.

[Smasharoo 0]

it's not like you play 87s if your pot odds on this hand are 6-to-1 or better, but fold if it's 5-to-1 or worse. Yeah of course.That's exactly what I do.I'm not playing 78s on the button with one limper because the pot odds aren't there.I am with 3 limpers because they are.

[akishore 0]

i hate to be the ed miller posterboy around here, but please refer to the following post...http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...&fpart=all&vc=1

Preflop play is NOT about "pot odds." It is not about how many limpers you have. Preflop play is about getting to see flops against players who will give you their money by playing poorly.The goal of preflop play is to maximize your time spent playing after the flop against weak players and weak hands and minimize it against strong players and strong hands.

aseem

[harvey 0]

One of the biggest parts of positional playing, is having an accurate dipiction of the pot and implied odds. This DOES apply preflop. One reason a hand chart would normally put 87s as a late position call, is to ensure that you have the neccessary information about how big the pot is going to be. What Miller is saying is that you should consider other aspects of the game, like I have 87s with only 2 limpers in LP, but these guys will cap the flop turn and river with nothing so if I hit a straight or flush it'll more than make up for not having another player or 2. This is all about implied odds.The pot is always the most important aspect, its just that preflop there are many considerations to factor into your implied odds that you can't always just look at just the amount of limpers.By using averages you can get generalizations to use for calling hands. Like in my games 4+ limpers of the average type of limper is what I would need to call 87s in late position with...When you are 4+ tabling without a read or PT data on every single player it helps to use averages to make decisions like this. But it will definately depend on all the characteristics of the average players you are playing.

[akishore 0]

harvey, nice response. i can dig that.aseem