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sng strategy vs. tournament strategy


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I was hoping to pick your collective brain about how to go about tweaking my tournament strategy.I'm aFullTiltPoker online player who is winning (that is, cashing) fairly consistently in small money sit-n-gos ($5, $10) and I've just started playing the occasional tournament as well. I'm a tight-aggressive player in the mold of (but certainly not in the company of) Dan Harrington. I readily admit I probably fold hands that many of you would play, especially from early position, but I believe my patience is my greatest virtue. As I mentioned, I'm doing well in sit-n-gos but I'm finding that I may be a tad too tight in tournaments (300 - 400 players or so). Getting into the top 100 is rarely a problem but I often find myself up against the blinds a bit as we push towards the money. In other words, unless I win a couple of monster-vs.-monster situations, I'm usually simply not growing my stack large enough as we enter the later parts of the tournament.Is there anyone similar who's found a good remedy? Is it simply a matter of loosening up in these bigger tournaments and taking the corresponding early exits for the chance to build your chip stack more dramatically? I read an article by Chris Ferguson saying not to change a thing, to do what you do... but I'm finding my consistent finishes just out of the money a tad frustrating.P2

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I have the same problem. Without a few big hands early, I'm screwed. But that is true of everyone. Tournament poker is a lot of luck, and the downswings suck when you don't win one for awhile. What is your name on Full Tilt? We have probably played together. I only play tournaments every once in awhile, because money is better in cash games.

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Have you read HOH and HOH2? I have read the first one, and I found it was a big help to my NL tourney game. I am still waiting to get to the second one (damn finals), but I hear it is equally valuable. Probably not the answer you are looking for, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there.

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Have you read HOH and HOH2? I have read the first one, and I found it was a big help to my NL tourney game. I am still waiting to get to the second one (damn finals), but I hear it is equally valuable. Probably not the answer you are looking for, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there.
I've devoured HOH1 a few times already... but I have not yet gotten a chance to grab HOH2 (damn work). I've actually heard several people say HOH2 is better than HOH1... which is a serious statement IMO. HOH1 is probably the most influential poker book I've ever read, in terms of my game, if for no other reason than it upheld a lot of beliefs about my tight aggressive style and changing gears occasionally. I think sometimes with guys like Hansen, Negreanu and Ivey out there, playing "tight" has become unsexy... I personally still find it my most successful style (by far). I must admit, however, that I'm considering changing gears a little more frequently come tourney time.P2
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HOH 2 is a must read - in your case, his section on zones is very applicable as it made me realize that you have to start playing more aggressively way before I thought.Say that blinds are 100/200 and ante's are 25. So there is 525 in a pot before the hand starts. When your M (which is calculated as your stack divided by the starting pot) is less than 20, you have to start being more aggressive.So in this example, if your stack is less than 10,500, you would fall into this category. As your M decreases, you have to be more and more aggressive.His premise is that many players let their stacks get too low before they change their style.It's a great section and helped me out a lot.

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GoBears is right on.HOH2 IS better than the first, and it's just what you are talking about in your case. It will change your life if this is the problem you're having, lol. Now THATS saying something!

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HOH 2 is a must read
god damn! I ordered the wrong one!! :oops:as a contribution to this thread though...I generally have the same problem as well. Tonight I decided to change my strategy up a little bit though and try something new.I played 3 - $50 SNGs tonight and finished 1st, 1st, 2nd respectively. Surpringly my best yet. What did I do different?I was loose and aggressive from the start. I lowered my starting hand expectations from the very beginning...This is not to say I was crazy, because I still played position accordingly. I find that most players are generally rather loose in general so I might as well play ball as well.As the SNGs progressed I tightened up sticking in the top-middle of the pack as far as chips go. Not chip leader or anything, but comfortable y'know? As the people dwindled then I just became more and more aggressive once again based on position...If I got bet into in late position, I'd push back and 8 times out of 10 they'd fold. It's that whole, "omg i dont want to get eliminated and need to make the money!" consicous that people have going on. They will fold if in fact they have nothing. If I got push back I'd simply fold as well. No harm done. Worked wonders and I made an easy $500+ tonight :club:
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hoh is like sshe..it cant be read just once...i know i was able to knock 1 out in like a 5 days and im tryin to get through 2 as fast as possible but i know im gonna have to reread them about 2 more times before i understand it all...He has some incredible insight on different concepts though i wonder if some of the plays will work against the normal online fish

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hoh is like sshe..it cant be read just once...i know i was able to knock 1 out in like a 5 days and im tryin to get through 2 as fast as possible but i know im gonna have to reread them about 2 more times before i understand it all...He has some incredible insight on different concepts though i wonder if some of the plays will work against the normal online fish
A lot won't, but he usually specifies when it's an online situation or not, so it is helpful in that sense too.
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yeah i still plan to use some of his strategy..and some of the reasonin he uses is mind blowing...i am at a loss as to which is better hoh or sshe..good thing they are different games otherwise i wouldnt know which one to follow

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I played 3  - $50 SNGs tonight and finished 1st, 1st, 2nd respectively.  Surpringly my best yet. What did I do different?
Last night a friend of mine got drunk and won a $100 sng and a $50 sng. He sucks. Bad. Short term luck can do wonders.With regard to general multi-table tournament strategy...Play aggressive out of the gate. Chris Ferguson may suggest doing what you've been doing, but conservative people will wilt and die when the blinds get huge. Are you unwilling to gamble early? Do you avoid iffy situations? It's these types of things that can really make it tough to bring chips into the home stretch.All of that aside, your close to money finishes could just be normal. Track your results, figure out what percentage of big online multitable tournaments you money in. When we had Brett Jungblut at our strategy table a little while ago, Kurt asked him how often he finishes out of the money. He replied 60%. Given the caliber tournament player that Brett is, I think that is close to as good as it gets. Minus Jack Nicholson.Track yourself and post hands you have a question about.
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GoBears is right on.HOH2 IS better than the first, and it's just what you are talking about in your case.  It will change your life if this is the problem you're having, lol.  Now THATS saying something!
It seriously does, I had commented before on how I kept busting on the bubble or late in a tourney w/ 2 tables left.. I always felt my lowstack game was pretty good (unfortunately this was probably due to the fact that I got A LOT of practice playing low stack :-) )but my midstack (Yellow and Orange zone) game SUCKED..I finished reading HOH2 yesterday and I saw an automatic change in my midstack strategy, it was impressive, and easy to adapt to as well.
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HOH1&2 is without a doubt the best NL tourney book (he considers it one book) out there. I'm like you too producer, we play the tight game. The pot odds lessons he gives and the heads up advice have helped a lot. I find that the pushing with two nice cards (AQ) when in the red zone doesn't work that well in live tourneys, as players are quite likely to fold, but online, it works everytime :-) Every tight player should have that book read and reread, and hey, Dan made the final table of the 2003 and 2004 WSOP main event, so obviously that's a great support that playing tight is a successful strategy.

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