playing 10 25 no limit w/ min. 1000 dollar buy in

[nojacks 0]

i recently played in a 10 / 25 nl game with a 1000 minimum buy in. this was a live game at a local casino (soaring eagle). i opted to buy in for the minimum (1000) because i wanted to get a feel for the play of the game before i stuck a couple grand on the line. I generally dont discuss poker hands with anyone, but ive been having a bit of a bad run lately and i wanted some advise, so i figured id give this forum a try. i guess i should first say that im a professional poker player, although none of you will probably recognize my name, but i do play poker for a living and until recently (the past 6-8 months) things have gone good. i rarely if ever play online and i have earned a substantial bankroll in the least 11 years that ive been playing. however i only started playing professionally about 5 years ago. anyway back to the issue at hand, i was wondering if anyone could provide some helpful criticism of the way that i played a key hand. I was the big blind (25$) and had AK off, an early player raised it to 75 and the guy behind him raised it to 200, ohh by the way there were only 6 players at the table, so it was relatively shorthanded. anyway the other players folded and it was on me, i only had 900 in front of me, i decided to call the bet and hope that the early raiser didn't push. my hope was right and he just called and we took the flop three handed. the flop was 8 6 5 all of hearts. I had the A of hearts and checked, and to my surprise both players checked behind me. the turn was a black ace, and i led out for 150, the first player thought for a moment and then called and the preflop re raiser folded. the river was the queen of diamonds, i checked and other guy checked behind me and my ace king was good , he said he had an ace too but folded his cards. anyway i cant help but feeling like i played the hand completely wrong, mainly for not betting the river, maybe 4 or 500, anyway any insight is appreciated, thanks

[The Sheriff JBJ 0]

You did the right thing. It was a good hand. WHY?YOU WON THE POT.Whether you maxed the value is another thing. Also how many hands had you played? If you had bet the river and got reraised, would you have called or folded, given two pair, a flush or trips would have beaten you?If you are a pro of 5 years you will know that there are so many variants. So back to my opening statement. YOU WON THE POT.Im no pro. I do better live than on the net. No doubt so better players than me will chuck in their points too!

[mobeamer 0]

You did the right thing.  It was a good hand.  WHY?YOU WON THE POT.

I claim to be no pro either, but I am in agreement with Sheriff.I believe the guy you faced with an Ace would have raised, I'm assuming his chip count was higher than yours.That would have put you in a tougher position.The pot was allready worth your chip count, take it down and wait till you have the nuts (or damn close) to get value from a bet.mobeamer

[FOOSE1 0]

Well . . . if you are indeed a professional . . . I am by no means qualified to give you advice but if that were me I probably would have bet the river. Both other players checked on the flop which either meant they were scared of the 3 heart flop or (in there mind) they were trying to trap you with a flopped flush. However when one folded and the other just called on the turn when the Ace hit, I would be thinking the guy probably has A 10 or maybe something like J J. I wouldn't put him on a flush. I would think if he had the flush he would have reraised to just take the pot right there. I also don't think anyone would call a reraise with a 4 7 or 7 9 for the potential straight on the board. Now on the river when the queen hit that might be somewhat of a scare card for you if you put him on A Q. But I also think he would have raised with A Q on the turn if he had it, if he thought you were on a draw. So in my mind I wouldv'e been thinking he had A 10 or JJ and would have bet.But . . . what do I know . . . I'm not a professional. I currently make about $75 per week playing poker. When I make 100 times this amount then maybe I'll consider becomeing pro!!

[KramitDaToad 0]

Nope, I think you played this hand pretty good. Semi bluffing the flop would've been a risky play - as it would've commited you to the pot; if you went down this route I think you would've had to push all-in.The bet on the turn was good as it pushed off the paired hand (I'm assuming that is what the reraiser had - extra nice if it was Queens!)I think the check on the river was the correct play. You called 20% of your stack preflop, then bet into a preflop raiser and reraiser on the turn.Your opponent would've put you on AA, AK, Ax where the x is strong (K or Q), 77 with the 7 or a pair that made trips on the flop. I think he would rule out suited connectors that gave you the flush as your preflop call was too large.Out of all of those, with an ace-rag hand he can only beat the 7's or a bluff.Given this, if you bet 400 into the pot, your left with only 150, therefore he can't bluff you out, so if he does call (and/or raise) he's got you beat.If he can't beat top pair he's going to fold.Therefore you either lose your bet or win nothing extra.The other consideration is his call on the turn, it's a very good possiblity your beat or splitting...PS. I don't believe him saying that he had an ace. He didn't have the K or Q, so what was he doing calling a reraise with AJ or lower?

[blknines 0]

I agree with the check on the river. There are too many hands that have you beat. Although I would suspect you had the best hand after they both checked the flop. I believe that betting the river could only lose you more money if your beat, and in that situation noone could have called your bet anyway. So I think checking was the right play, and a safe one.

[justblaze 0]

I dont mean to be rude, so take my comments as constructive criticism and keep in mind im a mid limit player whos just starting to work out the kinks in my NL game. But this hand was played terribly quite frankly. Im assuming you know this though, or you wouldnt be posting about it. All those who are saying you played it well because you dragged the pot are thinking in a results oriented manner which is not correct for evaluating poker. Here are my thoughts:Preflop:shorthanded table, opener could mean anything given information, reraise likely a big ace or medium pocket pair. You need to be aggressive here. The call is a passive play, and gives you no information. You need to define your opponents hand. I would have popped it back 400 to the reraiser. You'll probably force the EP out and take control of the hand. If MP has one of the two hands you are worried about, you'll here from him now, as well. Flop: This is a scary board, especially since you are cold calling the preflop action. With a nut draw i am leading out here for at least 200. Big pairs and overcards will HAVE to slow down here with the suited board and all kinds of straight possibilities. Again, you make a passive play unless you were planning to checkraise, which you dont mention. It is unlikely any of this raising was going on with medium connectors or hearts in a shorthanded NL game. Turn: Now would have been a great time for a trap. Someone has likely hit that ace, and will bet it for you. This is an instance when your passiveness on previous streets could have earned you a lot more chips. Even if the preflop reraiser didnt hit the ace, if its checked to him hes going to make a play at it after all this checking and a frightening board. A checkraise here would have been a good play, likely winning the pot outright. Even if you get called, you are likely ahead. The only thing i can see you behind on is A8 2 pair or something, to which you still have 12 outs. River: Ugh, the check here is ugly. The problem is you have no idea where you are at because you've been so passive the whole hand, so you are kind of stuck. If i had been mor eaggressive, id have a better idea of where i was, but id still have to bet it here. probably 3 or 4 hundred.

[workz 0]

First of all there is no one right way to play this hand...As in all poker it depends...even though you gave us details of the hand, there are still alot of different little things you probably didn't tell us that could go into the play of the hand.. like the chips stacks of the others, the type of play they make etc...like the guy who reraised to $200, is he the type to do that with any good hand especially because he has position? All these little things add up to how you should have played the hand... So depending on the reraiser you are stuck deciding if you should reraise, just call, or even fold preflop... Unlike blaze, i hate reraising a reraise with AK in horrible position...I agree with being the aggressor, but AK is somethings so overvalued by people that sometimes it makes you lose more $$ than gain...Anyways after your call preflop, I definitely would have bet out around $200-$300 on the flop, to show your opponents you have a strong hand and that your willing to put all your chips in even on a raise because you've committed so much... All in all though, you won the hand which is the most important.. Lastly to the post earlier about the person ruling out AQ when he checked the river because he believes the guy would have raised the turn... I don't necessarily agree with that...when a guy raises with AQ preflop, gets a reraise, and then a cold call from the big blind...then when 3 hearts flop, which obviously he didn't have the ACe of hearts, so when the turn comes he can easily become passive and be scared of a flush, straight, a set, etc...so yeah you can't rule out aq on that hand...

[KramitDaToad 0]

I dont mean to be rude, so take my comments as constructive criticism and keep in mind im a mid limit player whos just starting to work out the kinks in my NL game. But this hand was played terribly quite frankly. Im assuming you know this though, or you wouldnt be posting about it. All those who are saying you played it well because you dragged the pot are thinking in a results oriented manner which is not correct for evaluating poker. Here are my thoughts:Preflop:shorthanded table, opener could mean anything given information, reraise likely a big ace or medium pocket pair. You need to be aggressive here. The call is a passive play, and gives you no information. You need to define your opponents hand. I would have popped it back 400 to the reraiser. You'll probably force the EP out and take control of the hand. If MP has one of the two hands you are worried about, you'll here from him now, as well.  Flop: This is a scary board, especially since you are cold calling the preflop action. With a nut draw i am leading out here for at least 200. Big pairs and overcards will HAVE to slow down here with the suited board and all kinds of straight possibilities. Again, you make a passive play unless you were planning to checkraise, which you dont mention. It is unlikely any of this raising was going on with medium connectors or hearts in a shorthanded NL game.  Turn: Now would have been a great time for a trap. Someone has likely hit that ace, and will bet it for you. This is an instance when your passiveness on previous streets could have earned you a lot more chips. Even if the preflop reraiser didnt hit the ace, if its checked to him hes going to make a play at it after all this checking and a frightening board. A checkraise here would have been a good play, likely winning the pot outright. Even if you get called, you are likely ahead. The only thing i can see you behind on is A8 2 pair or something, to which you still have 12 outs.  River: Ugh, the check here is ugly. The problem is you have no idea where you are at because you've been so passive the whole hand, so you are kind of stuck. If i had been mor eaggressive, id have a better idea of where i was, but id still have to bet it here. probably 3 or 4 hundred.

Sorry justblaze but can't agree with all of that - he didn't have sufficient stack to make any of those plays.A raise preflop, assuming the EP folds and the MP raises leaves a pot of 875 to his stackof 500, he doesn't have enough for even a pot sized bet - ergo if he's going to raise preflop it needs to go all-in.Betting into the flop for 200, what are you going to do when the overpair raises back? Your committed and have to call on a draw - again may as well push it all in.Check-raising the turn? Betting yes, as it now commits him to the hand at only a cost of a smaller bet so it kills off any bluff attempts, check-raising again commits his full stack to the pot.The river has to be checked - name one hand that will call and lose...

[CharlieBrody 0]

Like you said justblaze, you still have many kinks to work out in your nl game. How the hell is he going to raise to 400 more and take control of the hand when he is sitting on 1k? you realize theres basically no more betting if the guy calls the raise preflop. (hes pot commited to call the rest with a pp, or a big A heart). I like seeing the flop with AK. With a reraise, it generally indicated strength, and unlike a tourney, there is no need to just shove in with AK. I like the way you played this hand, and i think a baby set is not out of the question here, nor is Ax for two pair (unlikely with the reraise but still possible if loose game). Well done, i see why your a pro.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think you played the hand well. You could have thrown a bet out on the river, but I think you're only getting called or raised with a hand that has you beat.I do think the other guy could have played the hand better. If he bets anywhere to see where he stands, I'm thinking you may have folded.

[FromTheRail 0]

I think you played the hand as well as possible out of position. Six handed with two riases and playing out of the big blind, you can't hardly reraise preflop. You are vulnerable for the rest of the hand and you want to see the flop as cheaply as possible, as you commented. After that flop, I would also check, then muck to any raise. I like your probing bet of quarter of the pot on fourth street....just enough to find out where you are. After the other player calls, I would definately be finished putting more money into the pot unless the river gave you your flush. After the queen hit the board I think your check was best, if you bet and get called you'd have to figure you would be beat, if you got raised thats a whole different scenario of bad possibilities. You could easily see your oponent leading preflop with hands like Q-Q, A-Q, but wired 8's,6's, or 5's could have also been a reasonable preflop raising hand, so checking and seeing what he does is not a bad play in the situation. The only way you could have played the hand differently would have been if you had position on your oponent....however, this was not the case so your play was correct.

[The Sheriff JBJ 0]

All those who are saying you played it well because you dragged the pot are thinking in a results oriented manner which is not correct for evaluating poker.

HE WON THE POTThat is aood thing. I find I usually win money by suprisingly winning pots! :wink: I understand what you are saying though. Its like the current fad of chucking it all in with 9-3 The SIK. Some poor guy will lose with pocket rockets becasue a 9 hits in the flop and on the river. However, better strong play will win the war rather than anyone battle especially in cash games rather than the STT or MTT.Although its better to talk about how you won a pot rather than lost it in the described situation. So in terms of playing 1 hand correctly. In that case he did and took the pot.If I get a bad beat its only one hand to me. Each hand is unique. However, I will draw from experiences in other hands I have played like this as a framework to guide me through.Plucking one hand from thin air and analysing (no Z's UK spelling) it is not a true reflection on the game. I might have been playing tight - rock like even to swell my stack. I am BB I get 7 -2. A 4x BB raise may steel me the blinds. The table could fold like dominoes. He's tight. But I may get a caller..... So I can go on to describe options. You play the cards and players you have in each hand. That play may be unwise if the caller holds A K suited. But what if 7 7 2 rainbow flop. Know way he's putting me on that. With the info given, the guy did well, but not great.

[justblaze 0]

Like you said justblaze, you still have many kinks to work out in your nl game.  How the hell is he going to raise to 400 more and take control of the hand when he is sitting on 1k? you realize theres basically no more betting if the guy calls the raise preflop. (hes pot commited to call the rest with a pp, or a big A heart).  I like seeing the flop with AK.  With a reraise, it generally indicated strength, and unlike a tourney, there is no need to just shove in with AK.  I like the way you played this hand, and i think a baby set is not out of the question here, nor is Ax for two pair (unlikely with the reraise but still possible if loose game).  Well done, i see why your a pro.

Sorry, Charlie, not all of us can be like you and play the big 25-50 NL on UB... as for your comments, i didnt address in my post the problems with buying into a large NL game with 40bb, but it is obviously misguided. I didnt feel like getting into bankroll management, stake levels etc. as the OP only asked for critique of the hand. but, with that said, he can easily raise to 400 and take control of the hand with 600 left. Clearly there would be more betting. Learn how to count. He mentions nothing about stack sizes, reads, etc. but assuming he is a pro (and judging by his post that is a big assumption) he wouldnt be buying into a game like this very shortstacked so we can assume the other players have relatively similar stacks, maybe 3k tops, to which 600 would still be a big bet. And while i have many kinks to work out in my NL game, you have no understanding of the game whatsoever. One cannot be pot committed in a cash game, this term does not make any sense. Pot committed refers to having so much of your finite chipstack in the pot in tournament play, to fold would leave you with an insufficient amount with which to make a recovery. In cash games, one can rebuy infinitely and therefore cannot be pot committed. Besides, you would WANT him calling with a pp which you are ahead of the WHOLE WAY from the flop onwards. on that flop, for instance, you are a 53-47 favourite to any pocket pair below king. Same thing goes for an Ace with a heart. You are freerolling on AK and have any smaller ace drawing to 3 outs. As for an Ax 2 pair or a baby set, this is exactly the reason you need to raise preflop. 33 and 55 are unlikely to call a big reraise preflop, as are A8, A5, or A3. 88 still leaves you with 9 outs, but you will be much better able to define that hand with a raise. In all examples you have provided for why a river check was correct, a preflop bet would have most likely eliminated the hands that could kill you. And im not advocating shoving all my chips in with AK, im suggesting that correct SH NL poker is aggressive poker, and that by acting passively the OP cost himself a lot of information and ultimately profit. You are suggesting that he doesnt have a good roll for this game, which i agree with, but instead of playing scared money and checking TPTK on the river, like you suggest, i think he should buy in for a proper amount or move down in limits to something he can afford. what seems more likely though, is that this is actually a 10c 25c hand, and the OP just didnt want to admit to playing micro limits. Charlie, you should know something about that.

[justblaze 0]

Sorry justblaze but can't agree with all of that - he didn't have sufficient stack to make any of those plays.A raise preflop, assuming the EP folds and the MP raises leaves a pot of 875 to his stackof 500, he doesn't have enough for even a pot sized bet - ergo if he's going to raise preflop it needs to go all-in.Betting into the flop for 200, what are you going to do when the overpair raises back? Your committed and have to call on a draw - again may as well push it all in.Check-raising the turn?  Betting yes, as it now commits him to the hand at only a cost of a smaller bet so it kills off any bluff attempts,  check-raising again commits his full stack to the pot.The river has to be checked - name one hand that will call and lose...

no need to apologize, i respect your opinion. However, i disagree with it on several levels. Firstly, your comment about the preflop bet stems from the OP buying in with an extremely shortstack, which is another issue altogether. Scared money is dead money, though, and youve got to push your hands. You want to define the reraisers hand and hope to eliminate the UTG raiser. If the reraiser comes back at you preflop, you can consider laying it down then, but this will be an easier laydown than on that flop. The flop advice is taking into account the preflop call. If you had bet there, you need to push on the flop. But now, with only a 475 pot, you can test the waters. An over the top all in suggests an over pair, but unless you can pin him on AA or KK you are still a favourite. Ill get my money in everytime on a draw that is favoured to beat a made hand. On the turn, assuming no action on the flop, you are almost definitely ahead. Someone is betting out on that flush, for fear of another heart falling. So by the turn we can rule out flush (it would be easier if you had raised preflop). Ax 2 pair is unlikely due to the size of the raise preflop, and the check on the flop. I dont see a hand you dont have beat on the turn. At this point i would be looking to get all my money in and get a call. Check raise would likely accomplish this given my shortstack. as for the river, i can name several hands that will call and lose. AJ, A10, A9, KK, JJ. Remember, you havent shown any strength, your bet on the turn looks weak. All these hands might be enticed to call a small bet. Name one hand that will check call the whole way and beat AK.

[KramitDaToad 0]

JB, I think we're discussing the best way out of the original mistake - calling the pre-flop raise.I'm pretty sure that Stewart Reuben & Bob Ciaffone say in their book "Pot Limit and No Limit Holdem" that if reraising all-in is about 5-7 times the pot or less then is the way to go with AK.I think therefore the dilemas would have been avooided by a fold or raise mentality here - folding or going all-in.This hand demonstrates the problems that you can get into otherwise.You have some good points about testing the waters and being aggresive, and I can probably sum up my point of view by saying that if any money is going in it may as well all go at once and let your opponent make the decision.

[justblaze 0]

JB, I think we're discussing the best way out of the original mistake - calling the pre-flop raise.I'm pretty sure that Stewart Reuben & Bob Ciaffone say in their book "Pot Limit and No Limit Holdem" that  if reraising all-in is about 5-7 times the pot or less then is the way to go with AK.I think therefore the dilemas would have been avooided by a fold or raise mentality here - folding or going all-in.This hand demonstrates the problems that you can get into otherwise.You have some good points about testing the waters and being aggresive, and I can probably sum up my point of view by saying that if any money is going in it may as well all go at once and let your opponent make the decision.

I agree, the biggest mistake was the preflop coldcall. this sets up problems for the rest of the hand. While an all in push is an arguable play, it is clearly a better one than a call. I think its too much of an overbet, but thats a whole other discussion. Many players dont like reraising AK out of position, but this is a unique circumstance. Were shorthanded, with a weak and then a strong raise. In my humble opinion, you absolutely must find out where you are at. Calling tells you nothing. You then have to hope you hit. Personally, i would have made a raise to 400 preflop and then pushed on the flop. Like i said, unless you can pin him on aces or kings, you are a favourite to any pair.PS whats the matter Charlie? you dont have a snarky remark for my reply? too busy with the big game, are we?

[auspex 0]

I think that you made the correct call pre-flop by calling and then checking. To me this is the perfect play as it sets up a check raise. This would establish control of the hand, if the check raise works, or provide you with control of the hand as the other players would fear another check raise. When the A hit on the turn, you made the correct bet, this draws people who are on the flush draw back in to the hand as they think you are only betting the Ace, and if they have A x (low card for a possible straight) they will call you. You are also giving the other players correct implied odds if they are drawing to call you. However, I have a problem with not betting on the river, as it gives your opponent a free look at the AK, someone with 2 pairs, or a flush surely would have bet the turn. When no heart came on the river you knew you had won, and should have placed a bet small enough that Ax low card can call you.Just some advice.... I can't say you played the hand wrong, either way of playing the hand would probably have netted the same take.