starting hand question

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Call me weak-tight but I either fold this or call - bet any flop.Often, people in tournaments are hell-bent on taking down any pot if at all humanly possible. Is this really the best spot to risk your tournament life for a measly big blind? You ARE hoping for a pre-flop fold, Smash. Anything he calls your all-in with will be crushing you. That risk, albeit small, is not worth it.You want to steal some blinds? You have the button the next hand.I have had success (esp. against tight BBs), calling and betting out on the flop no matter how it falls. The BB is gonna do the same thing in either situation unless he hits which is always less likely than him missing. I think this is a safer way to steal when it's a battle of the blinds and if he calls/raises on the flop, you abort the mission. you win the pot on the flop the majority of the time.You don't like the play described above? Fold your SB away. It's really not such a catastrophe.

[SapphireTiger 0]

I disagree with Smash in the sense that moving in, you will only be called by a much better hand. why not put in a raise of 5-6x instead?Because there really are very few good flops for your hand out of position.  Sure, you have some fold equity with a 5XBB raise, but you have much, much more moving in.  Taking this hand postflop will often put you in the position of having to make difficult decisions post flop.  Moving in forces the BB to make a difficult decision.  The more often you can put oppisition in the situation of making the harder decision, the better your RoI.Occasionally you'll get called and be out.  That's poker.  Most of the time, probably on the order of 90% or more if he's a typical SnG player, you win the blind.  Some of the time he calls and you win and double up.I'm really surprised you guys don't see this play more often.  I think of moving here as pretty standard.If you're on the button, the 5xBB raise makes a lot more sense.

okay i see your point...but there are a few things that need to be expanded upon so other people will get it too.Although taking this hand postflop will put you out of position and you'll often be stuck with difficult decisions, that doesn't mean it's unprofitable to do so. Too many players ditch their hands to avoid these uncomfortable decisions when it's -EV to do so.This is why folding is incorrect. Although it'll be uncomfortable to play post-flop...folding K5 against a random holding of the BB is -EV.

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

I think moving in here is pretty dumb. At 30-60 blinds its certainly not worth risking all your chips to win T60 even when the BB can only call 6 or 7% of the time.One, I think the odds of a call here are MUCH lower than that, two it sets you up for later plays with better hands where you want a call, three gap theory.Honestly, what's his range of calling hands here in your mind?I probbaly fold QQ there i his position.  That's just me though.  He can't see your cards, you know.

My 3x BB raise was for a NL cash game. Smash, your saying you would raise all in with K5o in the small blind, but fold to someone doing exactly what you are saying with QQ in the BB??? Something about that doesn't seem right..

[Smasharoo 0]

Smash, your saying you would raise all in with K5o in the small blind, but fold to someone doing exactly what you are saying with QQ in the BB??Yes.

[myenemy 0]

three gap theory is definetly a major consideration, I agree. There is also the theory that folding the SB will create a tight image so that you can pick up the bigger blinds later. And as for actually having a monster on the SB when everyone folds to you, that happens so rarely that I dont like risking on the setup for possible eventuality. I think range of calling hands here is not too narrow. I would not be surprised to see a call here with a hand as weak as TT. How could you say that you would fold QQ when you just said that you would call this play with "almost nothing"?

[myenemy 0]

I call a 3XBB raise there with nearly anything, most decent SnG players will, too.  I call an all in with almost nothing if I'm in the position you describe.

[TheSkins 0]

I probbaly fold QQ there i his position.  That's just me though.  He can't see your cards, you know.

You almost had me.