just met chris moneymaker

[anselm 0]

YOu say he came second in some tournament - well maybe that makes him a decent player - but a world champion? Come off it.

By the very fact of winning the WSOP he is a world champion, yes. Is the WSOP champion crowned every year the best player that year (or ever)? Not necessarily, and nobody's saying it is. Even when legends like Chan win, it doesn't necessarily mean he was the very best player in the world that year. Hachem wasn't the best this year, and Moneymaker wasn't then. Moneymaker's play against Brenes was not a horrible one.

[krup24 0]

I'm not giving him any repect for getting lucky and bad beating Ivey with a 7-outer to make QQQ full of AA . But the guy as done as much as anybody to bring lots of new little fishies to poker and fill my pokects with cash. For his poker I could care less-- but for the guy's representation and promotion-- I worship the guy and the money he brought me!!

Anyone even MM deserves respect for winning the WSOP. Nobody says anything when Raymers 10s cracked aces. Raymer won 90% of races he was in and he is respected. MM did get lucky a few times but I guess that doesn't matter cause poker is all skill.

[Pokergolf 0]

I have seen 3 or 4 posts in this thread on what a fantastic suck-out that was by MM on that hand that knocked Ivey out. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't MM enter the hand with A-Q and Ivey with pocket nines? Wasn't the flop Q-Q-?. Wasn't MM a huge leader in the hand at that point? Ivey has two outs on the turn and river. Didn't Ivey hit his out on the turn? Ivey got just as lucky on that hand as MM did, unfortunately for Ivey, his luck came on the turn and MM's on the river.

[Scanner313 0]

The only thing I didn't like about MM is that he said that "He wouldn't quit his job if he won, since he loves what he does. His life wouldn't change in the fact of the money."Divorced his wifeQuit his jobLast I heard (Not official) he was going with some young bimbo or somthing of that nature.So I feel that he is not a 'class act' guy as a few of you say. Now you can say you 'met' him and whatnot, and he might have been nice and such, but have you walked in his shoes and seen his actions and changes once he won that money?

Do you have personal knowledge of the relationship between him and his wife? Do you have insider knowledge as to why they got divorced? Good lord, more than 50% of marriages in this country end in divorce, and just because this guy broke it off with his wife you're saying he has no class?And let's see you win the WSOP ME and keep your day job (whether you said you would or not). When your name becomes synonymous with poker, every poker outfit under the sun is offering you free buy-ins to events all over the country, and on-line sites are paying you tons of money to use your name, etc. etc. etc., then let's see how easy it is to refuse all that and go back to whatever job you were doing.Don't knock this guy for going through a divorce and quitting his previous job. And if you could attract a hot young woman wouldn't you take it? You don't know shit about him and those aren't reasons to classify the guy as a scumbag or lowlife or whatever you want to claim he is. If he dumped a loyal and loving wife just because he now had mone and could get a hot young bimbo then he'd be a scumbag, but how many people do you know who would really do something like that? I highly doubt that's the case in any way, shape, or form.

[Marc-O 0]

Im curious as to what Daniel's truthfull opinion's are of Moneymaker..

[Adaon 0]

I have seen 3 or 4 posts in this thread on what a fantastic suck-out that was by MM on that hand that knocked Ivey out. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't MM enter the hand with A-Q and Ivey with pocket nines? Wasn't the flop Q-Q-?. Wasn't MM a huge leader in the hand at that point? Ivey has two outs on the turn and river. Didn't Ivey hit his out on the turn? Ivey got just as lucky on that hand as MM did, unfortunately for Ivey, his luck came on the turn and MM's on the river.

When behind in the hand:Ivey had 2 outs to imporve twice. (7.4%)Moneymaker had 4 outs to improve once. (15.9%)I plugged an offsuit 5 in since I didn't know the last flop card.So as it turns out, Ivey was more "lucky" to catch his 9 then Moneymaker was to catch the river.That aside, how would anyone lay down top set there?

[budfox427 0]

The only thing I didn't like about MM is that he said that "He wouldn't quit his job if he won, since he loves what he does. His life wouldn't change in the fact of the money."Divorced his wifeQuit his jobLast I heard (Not official) he was going with some young bimbo or somthing of that nature.So I feel that he is not a 'class act' guy as a few of you say. Now you can say you 'met' him and whatnot, and he might have been nice and such, but have you walked in his shoes and seen his actions and changes once he won that money?Now for the flaming on Moneymaker's play.... well.. He is a DECENT poker player, even though it hurts me to admit it. He knows how to pick up tells, execute bluffs (his main strategy) and plays on weakness with his opponent. MM is DEFINATLY not a great poker player, but he is average enough.. But I still don't like him, and I gave reasons for it, so

that is incredibly stupid my friend.first of all, big fucking deal if he divorced his wife. what if his wife was a stupid whore? you have no idea what motivated him to divorce his wife, so you definitely can't judge him for that.he quit his job. so? who wouldn't quit their job if they had the money? is that somehow a bad thing? he was an accountant! its not like he was a really important doctor or a man with a lifetime passion for music. he was an accountant. big deeeeeeeeeeeal.ok 2 down 1 to go. "last i heard, he was with some bimbo". hmmm. well, lets see, do you know if thats true? who is the bimbo? maybe shes nice? maybe you are a judgemental idiot? have you met the guy? no. shut your mouf.

Augmented-- The Mars Volta baby!!! Great f'in record.

[CaneBrain 95]

All i can say is this8 8????wtf was that?brenes got screwed

What about the Ivey hand. I think MM is a good guy as I have talked to him online a couple times, but seriously, to hit that ace against Ivey... WOW... Of course, there are more donkey plays in the WSOP final table this year than the last two. Some of these guys make Varkonyi and MM look like Ivey or Negreanu. Seriously, the Q7 by Haschem was silly, granted, he was making a move, but Q7???????????? Also, Aaron Kanter... what a mega-donk.

the ivey hand moneymaker flopped trip queens and Ivey hit a miracle two outer on the turn followed by MM re-sucking out on the river.....what on earth did moneymaker do wrong here. during the 2003 WSOP I saw money maker make a bunch of bad moves AND a bunch of great plays (calling Tomer Benvenisti's all in with A2...great read; calling dutch boyd's allin with 33 and two overcards on the board)once again so many people on this site love to hate on amatuer players.....we are all amateurs here and yet we hate on them and worship the pros....so weird

[troy5168 0]

The only thing I didn't like about MM is that he said that "He wouldn't quit his job if he won, since he loves what he does. His life wouldn't change in the fact of the money."Divorced his wifeQuit his jobLast I heard (Not official) he was going with some young bimbo or somthing of that nature.So I feel that he is not a 'class act' guy as a few of you say. Now you can say you 'met' him and whatnot, and he might have been nice and such, but have you walked in his shoes and seen his actions and changes once he won that money?Now for the flaming on Moneymaker's play.... well.. He is a DECENT poker player, even though it hurts me to admit it. He knows how to pick up tells, execute bluffs (his main strategy) and plays on weakness with his opponent. MM is DEFINATLY not a great poker player, but he is average enough.. But I still don't like him, and I gave reasons for it, so

Good thing you're around to judge him on his personal life. Get over it. Were you his employer? How about his kid or his wife? Do you have personal knowledge about his life and relationships, you know his reasons? Ya know, it's none ya damn business where he works or who he's banging. Get over it.

[MikeR 0]

Bet ya after he won the main event that year he bought a kick ass trailer. Everyone in the trailer park was like "Dang, Chris got a 24K Gold plated trailer!"

[Fphillips 0]

I don't post much but read stupid threads like this one here daily.If I were a betting man , I'd bet that you guys woud find a way to flame anyone thats wins any event. All it takes is for them to have a little luck.Like any of you have never been the sucker that gets the money having the wost of it but catches perfect to win.Call him what you will I'm sure he looses sleep.....Flame away kiddies!

[NicksDad1970 0]

i dont get all the mm bashing....ppl say he got totally lucky when he won the wsop..ok , yes he did..so has every winner that has ever won the wsop..what has he done since, very little to be honest..i know he did come in 2nd in a wpt event<actually was a bad beat away from beating gordon>...the average online player has more in common with mm than phil ivey or even dn for that matter....why do people hate him so much? he never claimed to be the god of poker..call him whatever you want ,but ive heard he's a nice guy thathas overcome some problems and come out the other side...sounds like a lot of jealous people wishing they sucked as bad as mm..

Well said Mr. Iveyfan30.

I agree

[troy5168 0]

All i can say is this8 8????wtf was that?brenes got screwed

What about the Ivey hand. I think MM is a good guy as I have talked to him online a couple times, but seriously, to hit that ace against Ivey... WOW... Of course, there are more donkey plays in the WSOP final table this year than the last two. Some of these guys make Varkonyi and MM look like Ivey or Negreanu. Seriously, the Q7 by Haschem was silly, granted, he was making a move, but Q7???????????? Also, Aaron Kanter... what a mega-donk.

the ivey hand moneymaker flopped trip queens and Ivey hit a miracle two outer on the turn followed by MM re-sucking out on the river.....what on earth did moneymaker do wrong here. during the 2003 WSOP I saw money maker make a bunch of bad moves AND a bunch of great plays (calling Tomer Benvenisti's all in with A2...great read; calling dutch boyd's allin with 33 and two overcards on the board)once again so many people on this site love to hate on amatuer players.....we are all amateurs here and yet we hate on them and worship the pros....so weird

it's called jealousy.

[NicksDad1970 0]

The only thing I didn't like about MM is that he said that "He wouldn't quit his job if he won, since he loves what he does. His life wouldn't change in the fact of the money."Divorced his wifeQuit his jobLast I heard (Not official) he was going with some young bimbo or somthing of that nature.So I feel that he is not a 'class act' guy as a few of you say. Now you can say you 'met' him and whatnot, and he might have been nice and such, but have you walked in his shoes and seen his actions and changes once he won that money?Now for the flaming on Moneymaker's play.... well.. He is a DECENT poker player, even though it hurts me to admit it. He knows how to pick up tells, execute bluffs (his main strategy) and plays on weakness with his opponent. MM is DEFINATLY not a great poker player, but he is average enough.. But I still don't like him, and I gave reasons for it, so

that is incredibly stupid my friend.first of all, big fucking deal if he divorced his wife. what if his wife was a stupid whore? you have no idea what motivated him to divorce his wife, so you definitely can't judge him for that.he quit his job. so? who wouldn't quit their job if they had the money? is that somehow a bad thing? he was an accountant! its not like he was a really important doctor or a man with a lifetime passion for music. he was an accountant. big deeeeeeeeeeeal.ok 2 down 1 to go. "last i heard, he was with some bimbo". hmmm. well, lets see, do you know if thats true? who is the bimbo? maybe shes nice? maybe you are a judgemental idiot? have you met the guy? no. shut your mouf.

Now I am not a fan of insulting other posters, but I guess I could sink down to your level. 1. He divorced his wife because he wanted to pursue his poker career, NOT because she was a censored, censored, etc. I could always use the (Well, how do you know if she is a censored, bimbo, etc) as you said, but I will just say you are wrong. It WAS because of the money, and if you look it up you could figure that out yourself instead of crying from a post and insulting me. 2. He quit his job because of his money, exactly. But I remember an interview saying "Well, I love my job too much to quit it". Maybe a reflection on the wife? Glad you get my point. 3. The girl is a golddigger man!! If you saw them together, and I HAVE seen her, then you would understand. I won't judge what you said on that, because you need to see the person as I did in order to understandEach point validates itself. It isn't a full-out stupid comment since evidence of pattern behavior shows. Thanks, and come again

1) He did say he wasn't going to quit his job and pursue being a professional poker player. Ok...so what he changed his mind.2) I'm curious how you know why he and his wife divorced.3) Just because in your eyes his current wife looks like a gold digger or wehatever does that mean it's true? I used to have a 32" waist could bench more than 2x my weight shaved my head and look like a mean SOB. I was called a racist skin head before just by my looks. Does that mean I was?I don't know you so I won't pass judgement But I would suggest you think about what I posted and reconsider.

[tweeds07 0]

Then... he lost it.

LOL, I'm pretty sure with all his endorsements, that he can play in almost every tournament, not cash and still break even for the year. We won't even throw in his backers.

PokerStars pays all his buy-ins and he keeps the winnings.

[TANKSTER 0]

Ummm, I can't beleive you guys are actually wasting time arguing over something that is so idiotic. Here's an idea! Buy a dog, name it life. Why? Because you need one.

[Elpedro 0]

For me the hating on Moneymaker is not because he got lucky - it's because he comes off as a dumbass.Example: day 1 of the 2004 wsop ME, espn shows him signing autographs looking like crap and he says this great line - "I was up all night drinkin'". Now for someone who's supposed to represent the game, you'd think that he would at least have prepared for the main event by getting as much sleep as possible, in the very least you'd think he wouldn't get drunk the night prior - and even more donkish is the fact that he'd tell these people he's signing autographs for that he did it. It's things like this example that paint MM as a dumbass - in 2003 he looked like a regular guy who was on the ride of his lifetime. After that he was always unshaven, looked dirty and comes across like he's a dirt bag. All he had to do was be himself, but I think the money and the fame got to him in the negative way. Raymer is an example of how to handle it - the only difference between this year and last is that his wife looks like she paid a visit to her local hair dresser. Greg himself looks no different and really acts no different.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

I'm sorry guys but I have a problem with this idea tha tournament winners are supposed to "represent the game." For what? Poker is my favorite thing to do, because it is more individualistic than any other endeavor. People try to hold poker in the same esteem as golf, meaning they think of it as a game that should be steeped in sportsmanship and the players should conform to some ideal or have moral outlook on the game or life. This is not why I enjoy watching and playing poker. Poker is great, because people use whatever personal attributes they have to win. Whether it be personality, intelligence or people skills. Some are positively viewed by society (Raymer), some are negatively viewed (Matusow, Helmuth) and some people's personalities are actually a hindrance at the table, but this is what makes poker great. You get to act however you want (within reason) and noone (coach, sponsor, agent, team member) can stop you. When people start talking about a need to represent the game they are talking about conforming to an ideal that exists in other sport, but would have a negative impact on the authenticity and magnetism that is "individuality in poker."

[CaneBrain 95]

I'm sorry guys but I have a problem with this idea tha tournament winners are supposed to "represent the game." For what? Poker is my favorite thing to do, because it is more individualistic than any other endeavor. People try to hold poker in the same esteem as golf, meaning they think of it as a game that should be steeped in sportsmanship and the players should conform to some ideal or have moral outlook on the game or life. This is not why I enjoy watching and playing poker. Poker is great, because people use whatever personal attributes they have to win. Whether it be personality, intelligence or people skills. Some are positively viewed by society (Raymer), some are negatively viewed (Matusow, Helmuth) and some people's personalities are actually a hindrance at the table, but this is what makes poker great. You get to act however you want (within reason) and noone (coach, sponsor, agent, team member)  can stop you. When people start talking about a need to represent the game they are talking about conforming to an ideal that exists in other sport, but would have a negative impact on the authenticity and magnetism that is "individuality in poker."

this is just like how sports columnists get all hot and bothered because TO wont act like a good role model. It is rubbish. Moneymaker shouldnt change just because he won some money. It is obvious the guy is a bit of a degenerate (see his sports gambling habits in his book)Big deal. He played just fine in 2003 got a bunch of breaks and now his life is gravy. Stop the hate, stop the jealousy.

[PA32R 0]

This might singlehandedly be the worst post ever.If he loses those two pots - we'd be saying Chris who?? Winning two monster hands when you're 4-1 down and knocking out two major competitors is a lot of luck.The reason MoneyMaker had the chip lead when he hit Ivey was b/c of - among other things - that bad beat on Brenes. His beat on Ivey gave him a commanding chip lead - something you can't really screw up - certainly at that level. It's not just the media that made moneymaker seem lucky - he also hasn't done much since. YOu say he came second in some tournament - well maybe that makes him a decent player - but a world champion? Come off it.

He is by definition, a world champion since he won what is by consensus the world championship. When you win the world championship, regardless of how you do it, you are the world champion. Duh.

[ol'number7 0]

I have never understood the hatred for Moneymaker. Considering he had never played a live tourney before, he faced a lot of pressure with cameras, pros at his table, etc -- I'm not saying he's a great player but you don't always have to be to win a tourney (plenty of examples of that). As for ripping the guy's personal life, thats pretty pathetic -- I hope he storms back & wins another major to spite the haters

[Elpedro 0]

Lucky McCatcher wrote: I'm sorry guys but I have a problem with this idea tha tournament winners are supposed to "represent the game." For what? Poker is my favorite thing to do, because it is more individualistic than any other endeavor. People try to hold poker in the same esteem as golf, meaning they think of it as a game that should be steeped in sportsmanship and the players should conform to some ideal or have moral outlook on the game or life. This is not why I enjoy watching and playing poker. Poker is great, because people use whatever personal attributes they have to win. Whether it be personality, intelligence or people skills. Some are positively viewed by society (Raymer), some are negatively viewed (Matusow, Helmuth) and some people's personalities are actually a hindrance at the table, but this is what makes poker great. You get to act however you want (within reason) and noone (coach, sponsor, agent, team member) can stop you. When people start talking about a need to represent the game they are talking about conforming to an ideal that exists in other sport, but would have a negative impact on the authenticity and magnetism that is "individuality in poker."The idea of "representing the game" is not a new concept - listen to any of the Binions talk about Amarillo Slim how he "represented" poker. How about Doyle Brunson, he is viewed by many pros publicly as a great representation of the game. It's not a "other sport" idea to represent what you're a part of - it's a sociological idea which stems from every one of us desiring to be proud of what we're a part of. Guys can have individuality within that framework (such as Hellmuth) however the line must be drawn when you're discussing a possible dirt bag vs. someone who's antics are unpleasant. There is this lingering idea (which Doyle refutes) that poker should be about hustling and backroom private ganster crap. That however is not the world that the top professionals live in, so the reality is much different than this lingering ideaology. Poker is honorable, Doyle mentions that in his writtings and in interviews on television, although you attempt to "lie/bluff" that is all within the framework of the game. It would be like saying football was not an honorable sport because they "hit" each other -which obviously is a ridiculous idea. Lucky disputed his own point when he said "You get to act however you want (within reason)" - as soon as you say "within reason" you're restricting this "individuality" that you supposedly desire. You can not have complete freedom with restrictions because it's an oxymoron. The bottom line is that the "individuality of Poker" is not restricted by having positive representation of the game, that is just a rebellious idea which is not well thought out. It stems from an attitude of "you can't tell me how to act" which is in this case childish because no one is trying to say that. The idea of representing the game is an idea of maturity and the long lasting health of Poker.

[koolromeo 0]

Another thread like this... *sigh*.All you Moneymaker haters sicken me.He has DOWN SYNDROME AND HE WON THE WSOP,so GIVE HIM SOME F-ING RESPECT!

I'm not giving him any repect for getting lucky and bad beating Ivey with a 7-outer to make QQQ full of AA . But the guy as done as much as anybody to bring lots of new little fishies to poker and fill my pokects with cash. For his poker I could care less-- but for the guy's representation and promotion-- I worship the guy and the money he brought me!!

will you give ivey respect fot hitting a 2 outer when he turned that 9? he was a much longer shot to hit his. there's no way he was going to see the river. he gambled and won, then he lost when mm did the same. thats poker.