a nlhe lesson

[justblaze 0]

Why you should shut up in NL cash gamesI'd like to share a recent live NLHE cash game experience with you guys.The game was 1-2 NL, max buyin $100, at an underground club. Its a pretty loose game, with a mix of players from decent to terrible, making the high rake and obligatory dealer tokes worth paying. Ive played with a few of the players quite regularily, including the villains in the two key hands im about to describe:Hand 1.I had just sat down, and had not been required to post as i was UTG, and the dealer hadnt thought about the issue until after i was dealt cards. I decided to limp with two black queens, hoping to limp-reraise. Unfortunately, we saw the flop 5 handed as 2 other players (including UTG+1, our villain and a player ive played with for countless hours) limped and the blinds completed/checked. The flop came down 10 9 5 and i checked, as did UTG+1. MP made it $10, and it was folded to me. Not wanting to let anyone draw cheaply, i raised to $30. UTG+1 debated his play, and made the mistake of thinking out loud. "can i really fold this?" he asked himself, and finally called. Right there, ive got him on A10 or an Ax club draw. What else could have him in such a tough spot? I know he's not an actor, so he really had a tough decision. Before the turn came, i decided to get a little more info from him. I said "hope the turn helps you" to which he responded "i dont need help". A10 it is. perfect. 4 hits the turn, and ordinarily id be worried. Villain had given me too much info though, so i felt perfectly confident in firing $50 of my remaining $78. He called again, and when the J hit the river he called the last $28. What did he flip over? A10. If he had just shut his mouth, i would have been damn worried about the club, and at the very least would not have gotten so much value. Hand 2.about an hour later, stack is up to $250. AQ on the button, with 3 limpers to me. Raise to $10, blinds fold and limpers call. $43 pot. flop is KQ8 rainbow, and its checked to the cutoff, who grabs a stack of $5s and throws them in without even counting them. When it gets counted by the dealer, its $30 to go. The cutoff is the other player i know well, and is reckless and aggressive. He's quite wild, and its real tough to put him on a hand. However, he has 2 problems: he calls down way too much, and he bets way less aggressively with very strong hands on the flop than with good or mediocre hands. Now, the $30 was pretty suspicious. If he had a set, or top two, he would have checked to me, knowing i would make a bet on this flop after raising PF into so many limpers. It looked like he hit the flop pretty well, but his hand was vulnerable. Since i had a deep stack in position, and he had me covered, i called. everyone else dropped out, and the turn brought K . Villain quickly fired $50 into the pot, and (yep, you guessed it) started talking. As i debated, he said to me "i have at least 3 pair, ill tell you that, and ill show you after the hand". Now, this didnt sound like a guy who wanted a call. Getting nervous, he finally told me i could see one card, and flipped up a Q. Big mistake. Why would he show me that card? if he had KQ he would have just sat there and waited, trying not to scare me out. If he had QQ, same thing. There was only 1 explanation: Q8 just got counterfeited, and now i had him outkicked. I told him what i thought, then pushed all in for $160 more. He called, disgusted, and turned over Q8. the river bricked and i scooped a huge pot. I probably would have folded if he had just shut his mouth. So, whats the lesson? Every word you say while you're in a hand gives away information to anyone who cares to listen. If you're going to talk, make sure you're giving away information you WANT your opponents to know. The easiest way, though, is to shut up and play. (oh, i guess theres two lessons: never call a large raise by someone who has just told you your exact cards).

[gadjet 11]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

[justblaze 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

meh, im not a great NL player (i find it very boring and tend to gamble too much) but the effect would be lost without the descriptions. the lesson doesnt really apply to online poker, obviously, and these are the differences between live and online poker that many of the 'traditionalists' lament. I also made some poor decisions in this session, but they werent due to me giving away my hand to my opponents. tell you what, tonite when i get home ill post a LHE HH of a hand i donked up.EDIT: i actually made a pretty big mistake in calling the flop in hand 2, so im not that awesome. fortunately, my opponent made a much bigger mistake in calling the turn.

[bdams19 0]

i liked it

[krup24 0]

Good story blaze. I pick up tells like this a lot when I play live. Are u sure ur not playing in the burgh.

[GhostfaceKillah 0]

good post blaze

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

I actually had a guy scream " no diamond!" heads up in a limit game the other day. I had mid pair and he had top pair. I have a solid reputation and have played with him a # of times. THe diamond came on the turn. Guess what I did? He folded face up, I think expected me to do likewise. I mucked w/ a sheepish grin. The mouth can get you in so much trouble at the poker table!

[murmar 0]

I figure this is as good a spot as any to check out my brand-new, ultra-lame avtar.

[murmar 0]

Ha! That went well.

[justblaze 0]

I figure this is as good a spot as any to check out my brand-new, ultra-lame avtar.

hmm, its so lame i cant even see it! (actually, i dont know if its lame or not - its not there).

[Royal_Tour 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

meh, im not a great NL player (i find it very boring and tend to gamble too much) but the effect would be lost without the descriptions. the lesson doesnt really apply to online poker, obviously, and these are the differences between live and online poker that many of the 'traditionalists' lament. I also made some poor decisions in this session, but they werent due to me giving away my hand to my opponents. tell you what, tonite when i get home ill post a LHE HH of a hand i donked up.EDIT: i actually made a pretty big mistake in calling the flop in hand 2, so im not that awesome. fortunately, my opponent made a much bigger mistake in calling the turn.

No offence Blaze but u played the 1st hand horribly.My game is usually 100max or 200max nl. I have sat at a 1000 nl game before, (but big deal).anyways, the check on the flop was gross. Now i'l read the 2nd hand

[Razor 0]

he finally told me i could see one card, and flipped up a Q. Big mistake. Why would he show me that card? if he had KQ he would have just sat there and waited, trying not to scare me out. If he had QQ, same thing. There was only 1 explanation: Q8 just got counterfeited, and now i had him outkickedI hope it didn't take this much info to put him on Q8 ... As soon as he said he had "at least 3 pair" I think it would be pretty easy to put him on the Q8, only hand that could possibly give him 3 pair. A person with a boat here isn't gonig to say they have "at least 3 pair" What the hell is 3 pair anyway?

[Royal_Tour 0]

I actually had a guy scream " no diamond!" heads up in a limit game the other day. I had mid pair and he had top pair. I have a solid reputation and have played with him a # of times. THe diamond came on the turn. Guess what I did? He folded face up, I think expected me to do likewise. I mucked w/ a sheepish grin. The mouth can get you in so much trouble at the poker table!

i always scream pre flop at the casino., 2, 2, 5!! comon.. deuce deuce five!!!.. most of the players at the table cant speak english anyways

[justblaze 0]

he finally told me i could see one card, and flipped up a Q. Big mistake. Why would he show me that card? if he had KQ he would have just sat there and waited, trying not to scare me out. If he had QQ, same thing. There was only 1 explanation: Q8 just got counterfeited, and now i had him outkicked

I hope it didn't take this much info to put him on Q8 ... As soon as he said he had "at least 3 pair" I think it would be pretty easy to put him on the Q8, only hand that could possibly give him 3 pair. A person with a boat here isn't gonig to say they have "at least 3 pair" What the hell is 3 pair anyway?

he might have been trying to sucker me into a call with a K, which was why i was hesitant until he showed me the Q. that sealed the deal. However, the point is if he doesnt say anything i fold.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Ok. just read the 2nd hand..soooo is the moral of these stories that you played against idiots>?? who the hell tells people this sort of information while in a hand at the table.?In the toronto area, what underground KGB games are u playing?. i need to get in on them if people are going to be acting like this

[justblaze 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

meh, im not a great NL player (i find it very boring and tend to gamble too much) but the effect would be lost without the descriptions. the lesson doesnt really apply to online poker, obviously, and these are the differences between live and online poker that many of the 'traditionalists' lament. I also made some poor decisions in this session, but they werent due to me giving away my hand to my opponents. tell you what, tonite when i get home ill post a LHE HH of a hand i donked up.EDIT: i actually made a pretty big mistake in calling the flop in hand 2, so im not that awesome. fortunately, my opponent made a much bigger mistake in calling the turn.

No offence Blaze but u played the 1st hand horribly.My game is usually 100max or 200max nl. I have sat at a 1000 nl game before, (but big deal).anyways, the check on the flop was gross. Now i'l read the 2nd hand

Again, im not a NL player, i only play this game because its as soft as butter and i cant pass it up. But i dont mind the check on the flop, its a very aggressive game, and i figured one of them would try to buy it. What really was terrible was the bet on the turn, leaving me with 28$ and a $180 pot sitting in front of me. i should have gone all in or bet half, not 3/4.

[justblaze 0]

Ok. just read the 2nd hand..soooo is the moral of these stories that you played against idiots>?? who the hell tells people this sort of information while in a hand at the table.?In the toronto area, what underground KGB games are u playing?. i need to get in on them if people are going to be acting like this

this is not abnormal play in these games. the games run about 4 times a week in various locations across GTA (but with the same core players, including villain in hand 2 who runs the games ) PM me if you want, ill hook you up.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

meh, im not a great NL player (i find it very boring and tend to gamble too much) but the effect would be lost without the descriptions. the lesson doesnt really apply to online poker, obviously, and these are the differences between live and online poker that many of the 'traditionalists' lament. I also made some poor decisions in this session, but they werent due to me giving away my hand to my opponents. tell you what, tonite when i get home ill post a LHE HH of a hand i donked up.EDIT: i actually made a pretty big mistake in calling the flop in hand 2, so im not that awesome. fortunately, my opponent made a much bigger mistake in calling the turn.

No offence Blaze but u played the 1st hand horribly.My game is usually 100max or 200max nl. I have sat at a 1000 nl game before, (but big deal).anyways, the check on the flop was gross. Now i'l read the 2nd hand

Again, im not a NL player, i only play this game because its as soft as butter and i cant pass it up. But i dont mind the check on the flop, its a very aggressive game, and i figured one of them would try to buy it. What really was terrible was the bet on the turn, leaving me with 28$ and a $180 pot sitting in front of me. i should have gone all in or bet half, not 3/4.

If you had that strong of a read on him, i can agree, Your lucky your bet didnt scare him, since its pretty easy to see you as pot committed after that bet.The only issue i have with the check post flop, was that you had really no idea where you stood in the hand with that many limpers, you were lucky he decided to talk. a small bet would have been raised by villan holdin A,10 i'm sure of it, your raise of an etra 20 or 30. w.e it was seems very risky with that board. If vilan didnt pipe up and say. "hmm can i really call this". you would have put him on a flush draw or slow played set for sure when he calls a raise of that size.

[fuzzyD 0]

I get it....Scream "no diamond" when you're on the nut flush diamond draw, then rake a huge pot when the diamond hits.Does seem like these guys have no idea how badly they are effing themselves up, though. "I have at least 3 pair." LOfrickingL --- how could you have guessed that he had Q8? correction though, justblaze....you didn't tell him he had Q8. Okay, you did, but he told you first.

[pogiolithis 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

agreeHand 1 was played pretty bad but worked out.Hand 2 you only got information after the mistake had been made and got lucky. Also when I see someone "grab a stack of chips" it's more than six.Sorry to be a dck but, come on.

[justblaze 0]

I found this to be less of a lesson and more of a long story bragging about how awesome you are...

agreeHand 1 was played pretty bad but worked out.Hand 2 you only got information after the mistake had been made and got lucky. Also when I see someone "grab a stack of chips" it's more than six.Sorry to be a dck but, come on.

again, i have repeatedly stated that i am not a great NL player. with that said, the only mistake i see on hand 1 is the bet size on the turn. on hand two the call isnt that big of a mistake, given that i can safely rule out a set or KQ which gives me outs and good implied odds (not to mention better than 2-1 on the call to begin with). your analysis is welcome, but saying 'you played like sh1t' is a pretty weak argument. and, substitute 'stack of chips' for 'bunch of chips placed in a vertically arranged pile', sargeant diction.

[pogiolithis 0]

I think the overall irritating part of this is you make a post about a "lesson" in NL then state that you are not a great/good player of that particular game. The intent was good - I guess. It's is important to keep quite in a game until you know what you're doing. But the whole post is filled with so much drama and ego that the point is lost. I never said you played shtty, I just thought they were bad plays that worked out good. We've all made bad plays and I'm sure if you think about it they don't look as good as maybe you thought.Never the less if you would like I can give you an analysis after work when I have more time. let me know.

[justblaze 0]

I think the overall irritating part of this is you make a post about a "lesson" in NL then state that you are not a great/good player of that particular game. The intent was good - I guess. It's is important to keep quite in a game until you know what you're doing. But the whole post is filled with so much drama and ego that the point is lost. I never said you played shtty, I just thought they were bad plays that worked out good. We've all made bad plays and I'm sure if you think about it they don't look as good as maybe you thought.Never the less if you would like I can give you an analysis after work when I have more time. let me know.

meh, i dont need an analysis, the plays were both fine given the game conditions (with the exception of the turn bet size in hand 1) but the point is not lost. A few small mistakes or loose calls were easily corrected by opponents talking during the hand. that is the point.