if raymer wins is he the next brunsen or chan

[royyoung 0]

now before you thrash me you gotta remember niether doyle nor Johnnyhave beat 2500 and 5500 to win main event.OF course he hasnt won yetbut if he does in my opinion this is bigger than the 10 titles doyle has wonand for sure tougher.

[justblaze 0]

now before you thrash me you gotta remember niether doyle nor Johnnyhave beat 2500 and 5500 to win main event.OF course he hasnt won yetbut if he does in my opinion this is bigger than the 10 titles doyle has wonand for sure tougher.

you're way off. people give too much credit to raymer due to the size of the fields. what they dont realize is the ridiculous proportion of dead money in these fields, as compared to the fields chan beat. Now, raymer going back2back would be an amazing achievement, for sure, but comparing it to winning 10 bracelets in multiple disciplines over a career is absurd.

[Sushiman 0]

People have already speculated that Harrington's back to back final tables in 2003 and 2004 was potentially the most impressive achievement in poker due to the size of the field. If Raymer actually WINS two in a row with this field size it will blow Chan and Doyle out of the water.

[ajs510 122]

I can't see him actually taking this down. He's been the very happy recipient of some plum table assignments, but if he has to go through Phil Ivey to get that absolutely beautiful bracelet (so pissed that I didn't spend more time in satellites to get a shot at that baby) then I think Greg is going down. The final table will be the Phil Ivey show, with the biggest Mike Matusow blowup in history as the opening performance. Not that I don't respect what Mike has done so far, but he has to lose a coinflip at some point, and it's all downhill from there.

[royyoung 0]

I see your point but i am not the only one to think this the guys at cardplayeractually were the first to say it.At the very least it has to be considered hugeif he does it to go back to back.

[zimmer4141 0]

It would be the most amazing achievement in the history of poker. However, to say that he becomes legendary is like to say the guys who made the Macarena are legendary in music. Chan and Doyle are where they are due to prolonged success and service to the game. Raymer will need to do well elsewhere to earn the same status.

[rsmbox 1]

like to say the guys who made the Macarena are legendary in music.

nice

[LAPoker 0]

I can't see him actually taking this down. He's been the very happy recipient of some plum table assignments, but if he has to go through Phil Ivey to get that absolutely beautiful bracelet (so censored that I didn't spend more time in satellites to get a shot at that baby) then I think Greg is going down. The final table will be the Phil Ivey show, with the biggest Mike Matusow blowup in history as the opening performance. Not that I don't respect what Mike has done so far, but he has to lose a coinflip at some point, and it's all downhill from there.

I wouldn't exactly say that he has had a cake walk. Just because you might not have heard of some of the people at his tables does not mean that he is playing in the fish tank. I will agree that some of the players definitely should not have been playing that event (especially the guy who called my allin with KQ off suit, but thanks for the double up buddy). The problem is that even with these players in the main event, they can still get lucky and hammer you. For him to make it to this point is one of the greatest accomplishments in history already, and if he wins it is definitely the greatest accomplishment. I don't see him beating Ivey again this year, and he still has to deal with Mattasow as well, but you are right about Mattasow's coin flip problem.

[Pokerdad2222 0]

I can't see him actually taking this down. He's been the very happy recipient of some plum table assignments, but if he has to go through Phil Ivey to get that absolutely beautiful bracelet (so censored that I didn't spend more time in satellites to get a shot at that baby) then I think Greg is going down. The final table will be the Phil Ivey show, with the biggest Mike Matusow blowup in history as the opening performance. Not that I don't respect what Mike has done so far, but he has to lose a coinflip at some point, and it's all downhill from there.

I believe that Ivey and raymer will be together on a table today...That should definitly be interesting..They are both very aggressive and both have huge stacks..I would kill to be there watching that today

[gregory 0]

I don't think he'd immediately be given the title of an all time great. But if he were to repeat and no one else does that for 10 years or so, I think his legend would grow. Problem this time is he has Ivey w/ a lot of chips to go through this time, I feel if he hits top 5 you could still consider it the greatest tournament accomplishment ever.(But wouldn't Raymer and The Mouth heads up for the world title just be awesome television??)

[royyoung 0]

when i posted this I started to think how much harder it is now to win a single braclet.Think about this if this years wsop was the biggest and some evnts only still had1000 players how many players played in lets say event # 12 (just random) in1984 maybe 100 probably less. So if you win one of those braclets or if 8 out of your10 braclets were won against tiny fields it cant be considered as good as beating 7800 people to win 2.Im sure we all play alot of cards and now matter how good you are its still about catching cards somewhat so maybe greg is lucky but its still will be a great winfor him if he does it.

[ajs510 122]

I can't see him actually taking this down. He's been the very happy recipient of some plum table assignments, but if he has to go through Phil Ivey to get that absolutely beautiful bracelet (so censored that I didn't spend more time in satellites to get a shot at that baby) then I think Greg is going down. The final table will be the Phil Ivey show, with the biggest Mike Matusow blowup in history as the opening performance. Not that I don't respect what Mike has done so far, but he has to lose a coinflip at some point, and it's all downhill from there.

I wouldn't exactly say that he has had a cake walk. Just because you might not have heard of some of the people at his tables does not mean that he is playing in the fish tank. I will agree that some of the players definitely should not have been playing that event (especially the guy who called my allin with KQ off suit, but thanks for the double up buddy). The problem is that even with these players in the main event, they can still get lucky and hammer you. For him to make it to this point is one of the greatest accomplishments in history already, and if he wins it is definitely the greatest accomplishment. I don't see him beating Ivey again this year, and he still has to deal with Mattasow as well, but you are right about Mattasow's coin flip problem.

I didn't mean to say that he's had it easy ( no one gets this far into a 5500 person tournament without skill) but there's a difference between playing anyone else in the field at their best, and playing Phil Ivey at his best. Phil Ivey and Mike Matusow are both playing some of the best poker of their lives, but if it gets to heads up between them who's the favorite? Exactly.

[walktheplank69 0]

You make it sound like all Doyle's done is win 10 WSOP bracelets (Which, incidentally, would be pretty damn good on its own.)... He's won WPT events as well as other majors and he's been in the biggest game, taking on all comers for 30 years.Back to back titles would be awesome, but you can't put two wins above entire careers spent at the top level.

[royyoung 0]

I only really mean WSOP i think these 2 are equal to those 10 not his entire body of work.I also think if ivey wins he would maybe considered the best especially if you lookat the beat he too last year.

[AK33 0]

A repeat this year would put him right up there with Chan's run but I still don't consider him to be one of the best. If he wins some WPT events or some bracelets in smaller events next year, then we'll have more to talk about. I can't see how you can put 2 bracelets over 10, TEN, no matter the field size (within reason). Chan and Doyle winning bracelets this year puts them atop my list as the greatest ever, to be able to win consistantly for decades can not be compared to two years of stellar play.

[royyoung 0]

thats just what were the field sizes in the other 9 for both probably not even 500i would guess

[AK33 0]

thats just what were the field sizes in the other 9 for both probably not even 500i would guess

That's true but think of what the ratio of pros/amatures had to be compared to today? 7/10 to 1/50??

[giantfan01 0]

I think this is all a matter of opinion. The question here isn't if a win would boost Raymer into the all-time great players, because he is obviously not on the level of Ungar, Doyle, and Chan(yet). The question is if he won this year would it be the greatest accomplishment in poker history. It's all a matter of opinion. Do you think a spectacular short run, possibly the greatest two year run by any player, or longevity is more impressive?

[halvey7 0]

The OP was joking right?

[Guest]

Not to foo-foo Raymer's accomplishment thus far, because lets face it - wading your way through close to 6,000 people is damned impressive. IF he were to win this year, it would be fucking impressive......But I don't think you can put Raymer quite on the level of Chan or Brunson. Yet. There's still time of course. Why?Look at their tournament successes: Raymer's have almost primarily come in no limit hold'em events. One pot limit hold'em cash, one in Omaha Hi-Lo, and one win in a small seven stud event (courtesy of the hendon mob website).Chan and Brunson? Success in events OTHER than hold em. Tons of wins and cashes in various events; from pot limit omaha to seven stud to 2-7 draw......Would Raymer's accomplishment be the greatest accomplishment? Arguably yes. On par with Brunson and Chan? Unlikely. Can Raymer play games other than hold'em well? Yes. Raymer is a fantastic poker mind and has proven that (re: his posts on 2+2, etc). You can't doubt his skill.But he has to have more time and success in other areas to be considered on that same level. Winning the main event; or hell, even WPT events isn't all there is to poker. Poker does in fact exist outside of No Limit Hold'em.......

[ambooth 0]

I think that everyone can agree that if Raymer wins two ME's in a row it will be a poker accomplishment that will historically forever be remembered.I think it would be analogous to something like if Johnny Damon were to go on to break J. Dimaggio's consecutive games with a hit record. It would be an amazing accomplishment by an "All-Star" but not legendary player. By breaking J. Dimaggio's record Damon would not immediately be considered a better player than Dimaggio, just a player who accomplished an amazing feat and a player who would be remembered for that feat, not his career - similiar to how Roger Maris was remembered for breaking the single season home run record but had a mediocore career.Remember Raymer has played and lost in the ME several times before he ever won it. This would be an amazing accomplishment, but for Raymer to become legend he would have to continue to accomplish a lot in the poker world for an extended period of time.Don't get mixed up with comparing career v. comparing accomplishments.I think as far as accomplishments go, if he wins, that is the greatest accomplishment to date. HE WONT WIN... PHIL IVEY is a MACHINE & they sit together today.

[jonnyz 0]

It would be the most amazing achievement in the history of poker. However, to say that he becomes legendary is like to say the guys who made the Macarena are legendary in music. Chan and Doyle are where they are due to prolonged success and service to the game. Raymer will need to do well elsewhere to earn the same status.

Thanks, thanks alot! Now I have that god damned song in my head now.

[LAPoker 0]

I don't think that Raymer will beat out Ivey, not to mention Mattasow, but I really don't think that it matters either. Making it to the top 27 even, after winning it last year, is among the greatest accomplishments of all time, and when you look at how he has done it I am even more stunned. He has never had a time during this years event when he wasn't an above average chip stack.My vote for the final two would be Mattasow Vs. Raymer, I would imagine that the ESPN producers are in church this morning praying for that as well.

[pokepoke1967 0]

I know that I'm pretty stupid, but I'm willing to let things develope as they will, and just enjoy it for what it is. If none of these 3 are in the final 5 we might still see some great poker. Let's wait and see.

[elkang 0]

He has never had a time during this years event when he wasn't an above average chip stack.

This is true, except for the first few levels. He was down to $3500 due to multiple rivers until he got moved to the the TV table to get good footage before he busted. He then went on a tear, catching cards and getting callers - going to $45,000 in 1 hr and 40 minutes. Since, then yes, he has been above average and playing his big stack poker for most of the time.I've watched well over 8 hours of Raymer's play and others have logged hours watching Ivey. There is a great article by Jay Greenspan (one of the best written during the Series) elucidating Phil's play. Today's confrontation will be great, as I have hand histories in my head of how they play.Raymer's tables have NOT been soft, especially the last days. In fact, he keeps winding up at the tables with the biggest stacks which is why I watch his table and not others due to the great potential of affecting the outcome of the tournament. The play at these tables with bracelet winners and poker greats in sheerly amazing. The sad thing is most of the press doesn't even realize it.