would you have called him?

[BeanGW 0]

im guessing meybe everyone folded or meybe 1 person limped in so u raised ur 56diamonds on the button. then kk was in the blind and just called thinking noone else would join the hand.

Brotha man... me thinks you are forgetting this is a heads-up match. They are allowed to play a bit trickier with big hands occasionally. In fact, I would say it's a necessity. Aside from that I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I hope DN responds with his answer soon!

[WorkYou 0]

omg i thought for some reason this was a hand DN played at the wsop. actually i didnt know who the hand was for. whoever posted this didnt give much information. i was just answering the topic.

[WorkYou 0]

why do you hope he responds we already know he had diamonds :Pill start making bets with anyone that he had diamonds. who wants spades ?i got ps and pp money.

[BeanGW 0]

why do you hope he responds we already know he had diamonds :Pill start making bets with anyone that he had diamonds. who wants spades ?i got ps and pp money.

I didn't give the additional background info because I figured if you were reading the postings in the Blog section of FCP, you would have actually read DN's blog and would have known that it was a heads up match. Guess that was too much to expect, eh? :roll: Anyway, I hope he responds because he said he was going to respond earlier in this thread. My biggest question is, how he would have played the hand any differently if he had the spade draw too. Personally, I don't see him playing it any differently if he had the spades, except maybe by selling his hand by betting a less on the river.

[bearshadoe 0]

I probably would have called him. It would depend on too many things for me. Your eyes tell so much, Your touch tells you care. Your embrace so and comforting, I know from what I see and feel in my heart you care. Angels Lily

[bdams19 0]

Idk what that post is above but...I call, it smells like a bluff to me, perfect action card DN was looking for there besides a gin card for the straight. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised it went the other way.

[lboarts 0]

If he had diamonds, then he was on an o-e draw, giving him 8 outs. If he had clubs, then he's on a flush and an o-e draw, giving him 15 outs. Knowing DNs aggressive nature, I would expect him to raise the turn bet, not just call, if he had 15 outs there. The reason is 2 fold.1. By raising on the turn, he may be able to win the pot right there without a made hand.2. If he does get called, he has a great chance of making his hand on the river with a huge pot on the felt.Only calling on the turn makes me think he was holding the diamonds and not the clubs. And when John Doe quickly checked the river, even donkeys like us would be able to sniff out that he was weak. The difference between DN and us: Would we have the heart to bet the pot with a missed draw on the river? I believe DN does.And one last note, regarding check raising on the river. Most solid players know that check raising on the river is a double edged sword. You run the risk of your opponent checking, in which case you missed the chance to maximize the pot. Most players wouldn't dream of trying a check raise on the river without a made hand, so if you have a made hand in this position and think its good, more than likely you'll lead out and bet at the pot, hoping for a call or a raise.In conclusion, DN had diamonds, and I wouldve called. (In reality, I would have never let DN see the turn without committing all his chips. Put him to the test, I say, lol).

[lboarts 0]

If he had diamonds, then he was on an o-e draw, giving him 8 outs. If he had clubs, then he's on a flush and an o-e draw, giving him 15 outs. Knowing DNs aggressive nature, I would expect him to raise the turn bet, not just call, if he had 15 outs there. The reason is 2 fold.1. By raising on the turn, he may be able to win the pot right there without a made hand.2. If he does get called, he has a great chance of making his hand on the river with a huge pot on the felt.Only calling on the turn makes me think he was holding the diamonds and not the clubs. And when John Doe quickly checked the river, even donkeys like us would be able to sniff out that he was weak. The difference between DN and us: Would we have the heart to bet the pot with a missed draw on the river? I believe DN does.And one last note, regarding check raising on the river. Most solid players know that check raising on the river is a double edged sword. You run the risk of your opponent checking, in which case you missed the chance to maximize the pot. Most players wouldn't dream of trying a check raise on the river without a made hand, so if you have a made hand in this position and think its good, more than likely you'll lead out and bet at the pot, hoping for a call or a raise.In conclusion, DN had diamonds, and I wouldve called. (In reality, I would have never let DN see the turn without committing all his chips. Put him to the test, I say, lol).

[WorkYou 0]

i wonder how daniel would have played his hand if it was clubs. he could have...raised prelfop.bet pot on flop. gets rerasied to 24k. then he could have reraised right there. but i think that would be a bad play because ur not really gonna get called and u got a good hand and want to get some action. if u re-raise and he has a set ur even money and if he doesnt have a set hes going to fold.then turn he bets 56k. u could re-raise right here. if kk calls ur re-raise u are the favorite. also if he calls ur re-raise he is going to commit him self and then if u hit on the river u will have him crippled. on this re-raise on the turn u would make alot of hands fold. almost everyhand. because they would be in danger of lossing there whole stack. so if u did get called here there would be a good chance of putting all ur chips in and i dunno is that a good or bad thing ?or u could just call on the turn and hope to hit on the river. i think that would be a bad play tho because with a straight/flush draw u are always going to be atleast alittle over 50% so u should try to build a big pot at the same time as trying to steal it. and if stealing doesnt work ur atleast 50/50. so i think the best play would be to re-raise big on the turn. meybe leaving ur self enough chips to continue to play ur match and have a chance to win then on the river if u hit u got all his money. if u dont u still got enough to come back and win. and he might fold to ur turn bet and u still win a nice pot.

[LooseCannon 0]

Let's work backwards here. The river bet tells us something. He could have made that bet with either hand. The only thing we can say is that he knows his opponent has a strong hand. If DN knew that his opponent would fold to any bet if the club came, then it really doesn't matter which suit his 65 actually was. A club is an out, whether a flush out or a "bluff" out. Perhaps DN also thought he had a bluff out if a K came and he could sell that he had JTc. There's 162,000 in the pot (if I understand the bets correctly) and DN makes an almost pot-sized bet. I think he would have made that bet no matter what he had.The turn is interesting. More or less, he has 15 outs, if he believes he can bluff a flush if he holds diamonds. Pairing one of the top two cards on the board might also work. And a jack or a king might also allow him to sell a bluff on the river. Including potential bluff outs, he has about 27 outs. Of course, those additional 12 outs over the flush and straight outs can't possibly be 100% good, so you would have to discount them. And of course, I didn't count an ace on the river, if his opponent appears to hate that card. DN says he thought for a while. I believe that his thought process was deciding between calling and folding rather than calling and raising. Raising would serve no purpose. DN decided on the flop that he had no fold equity in this pot and the turn card did not help or give him something he could bluff with.

[lboarts 0]

Let's work backwards here. The river bet tells us something. He could have made that bet with either hand. The only thing we can say is that he knows his opponent has a strong hand. If DN knew that his opponent would fold to any bet if the club came, then it really doesn't matter which suit his 65 actually was. A club is an out, whether a flush out or a "bluff" out. Perhaps DN also thought he had a bluff out if a K came and he could sell that he had JTc. There's 162,000 in the pot (if I understand the bets correctly) and DN makes an almost pot-sized bet. I think he would have made that bet no matter what he had. The turn is interesting. More or less, he has 15 outs, if he believes he can bluff a flush if he holds diamonds. Pairing one of the top two cards on the board might also work. And a jack or a king might also allow him to sell a bluff on the river. Including potential bluff outs, he has about 27 outs. Of course, those additional 12 outs over the flush and straight outs can't possibly be 100% good, so you would have to discount them. And of course, I didn't count an ace on the river, if his opponent appears to hate that card. DN says he thought for a while. I believe that his thought process was deciding between calling and folding rather than calling and raising. Raising would serve no purpose. DN decided on the flop that he had no fold equity in this pot and the turn card did not help or give him something he could bluff with. So, did he have diamonds or clubs?

[LooseCannon 0]

So, did he have diamonds or clubs?

Oh, yeah, forgot to answer that part. For DN to sense strength, he has to put his opponent on either an overpair, two pair, or a set. I think all of those hands call a small value bet on the river. For a bluffer, the ten is the best possible river card because it could complete both a flush draw and an open-ended straight draw. Any other club and I suppose DN's opponent might call with a set.It's the first big pot and they've just been feeling each other out. My instinct tells me DN has the flush and he is trying to make his opponent feel like he is bluffing with an oversized bet when he is not. Of course, I also think that DN is capable of making a bluff that looks like a bluff to make you think that he is trying to make you think that he is bluffing when he actually has you beat, so I could very easily be wrong.Also, for some reason, I feel like 5-6 of diamonds is less likely because he didn't flop a backdoor flush draw. I just can't explain why.

[the red bull 0]

I think the kings have to fold. For Daniel to bet on the river, he either was value betting, or bluffing with a missed draw. I doubt Daniel would bet the river with just a pair of 9s for example, so he would usually have to have either a made draw,or issed draw. The river completed a lot of draws and if Daniel was bluffing, the only realistic hand he could have is the 5-6.But then again, Daniel knew that John Doe didn't like that card and would probably fold an overpair or better(like with Freddy Deeb in a tournament earlier this year).We also can't assume that John Doe knew that Daniel knew that John didn't like that card so bet it as a bluff to get John to lay down a better hand than Daniel's. In John Doe's mind, Daniel had to have a really big hand to bet into such a scary board.

[Bohica 0]

Well, Daniel....are you going to let the cat out of the bag or not?? :wink: