hats & glasses and hoodies at the table.

[Guest]

I see it so much now it drives me crazy. All these players hiding behind their hats and glasses, and in the unibomber's case, he completely hides his face in his hoodie. Is it just me or does this take away an important part of poker, namely the read. I think that they should get the ban for the up comming WSOP, I know they have been talking about it, but who knows. There should be some rule about leaving the table and walking around after an all in as well. Oh well, just my rant.Ceough!

[Frills 0]

Hats and glasses are fine.Everything else isn't.

[Guest XXEddie]

I see it so much now it drives me crazy. All these players hiding behind their hats and glasses, and in the unibomber's case, he completely hides his face in his hoodie. Is it just me or does this take away an important part of poker, namely the read. I think that they should get the ban for the up comming WSOP, I know they have been talking about it, but who knows. There should be some rule about leaving the table and walking around after an all in as well. Oh well, just my rant.Ceough!

Of course it's taking away the reads in poker. You dont't want your oponent to get them. Most players are able to control there emotions. The hats, sunglasses.....are just a secondary defense just in case something spills out.

[GoBucksIndy 0]

What about when Kevin went to the bathroom after going all in against Scotty at the WSOP final table? I was shocked when they allowed that.

[Guest XXEddie]

What about when Kevin went to the bathroom after going all in against Scotty at the WSOP final table? I was shocked when they allowed that.

Its techically allowed. If scotty called(I haven't seen the 98 final table) They would of just played out the hand regularly. If he folded they owuld of have Kevin post his blind/ante, and if he wasnt there before the action came to him his hand would be folded. But i guessthats a way to take away the read

[Draino666 0]

Hats and glasses are fine.Everything else isn't.

I agree, sometime the glasses are prescription and the hat covers the bald spot. Come to think of it....banning hats and sunglasses would give the bald guys an unfair advantage. The glare would blind the other players and they might not read the cards on the board right.

[User 0]

Personaly, I wish they'd at least get rid of the glasses, when you try to read someone, the first most natural thing to look at is the eyes. It's probobly the hardest part to control to. I agree, I think the glasses take away a lot of the skill it takes poker players to be the unreadable proffesionals they are. I don't know, seeing as it's such a psychological game, you'd think that players who can read such things would be rewarded for their talent...and then there's online poker....

[Frills 0]

I remember my first time at a live game like it was yesterday, I started at a $100 buy in tourney as my first live tourney, I wasn't first out, but wasn't far behind.After I played a PL 1/2 game with a whopping $100 and the following hand came up.I had Ad, 6d in LP, I called the BB and there were 3 pthers in the pot, flop came down with 2 d's, the others bet and I called. The trun gave me the nut flush. I bet the pot, and stopped looking at the table, the other players folded, I found out a tell of mine, and one of the other players told me he had me on the Ad. I guess what I'm getting across is that with every experience you learn and better your game. If you run and hide, you achieve nothing, you might win the pot, but as a poker player, the only thing you may increase is your bankroll, not your knowledge of the table or the situation.

[Warren Warrior 0]

At the risk of sounding like a complete jerk, who the blue hell cares what anyone wears at a table? The way I see it, if you have a problem with someone wearing glasses hats and the whatnot, then you must not have confidence in your ability to read in the first place. There are plenty of other tells not directly related to the face, many of them hidden within betting patterns, as well as hands and the spoken word. I could personally care less if a guy wants to wear a pink tutu if that's what he likes to wear at a table. Yeah, it's prbably going to be horrifically traumatizing for everyone who wants to see it, but it won't elevate or decrease anyone's play. Well on second thought maybe that might be a bad example, but I think the point is still valid. Did you ever think that hiding might be a tell in and of itself for some of these players. Are they hiding every hand they're in or is it just ones that they feel less comfortable with? A good example of this if I remember right would be the guy who hid in his jacket when Howard Lederer was trying to get a read in the 2003 WSOP. It's been a while since I saw that, but if I remember right the guy didn't want to be called. To wrap this whole thing up, my best advice is to just adapt. Learn to build on other aspects of your game and reading ability.Cheers,WW

[mbreon 0]

Hats & hoodies, they don't matter. After all, don't the pros peer into your "soul" to figure out what you have anyways? Ha....I'm still waiting for the first person to show up with a mask at the table, Phantom of the Opera style or something like that. Now that will be some hilarious [expletive deleted].

[KennyEarl 0]

This reminds me of a funny story that was in an Esquire Magazine article that Jim McManus wrote last summer:He was in a tournament, and at a table with Amarillo Slim when an amateur player and Slim got into a big pot. Slim made a big bet on the river, and the amateur stares him down for like 5 minutes. Finally, Slim looks at him and says, "Son, if you can tell what I got just by staring at me, I'll sh*t in my hat."Unless you are one of the top pros in the game, you are more likely to give something away with the movement of your hands and your betting patterns than anything else.I had the pleasure of playing several hands with Phil Lakk (The Unibomber) at a WPT tournament last fall, and the full hooded up effect made zero difference to me. I was sure that I noticed a difference in how he bet once when he was on a total bluff, and when I saw it again in a later hand, he bluffed off nearly 75% of his stack to me before he mucked.I guess my point is that most of us just aren't skilled anough to look at somebody's eyes and draw a really good read. I personally think that there are better indicators out there if you make a habit of looking for them.

[Guest XXEddie]

For those of you who think it takes away the skill of the game, you are partly right. It takes away part of your OPPONENTS skill to read you, especially your eyes. Why just sit back and just and give off signals to your opponents? A lot of players wear sunglasses to not be read, but to be able to read other players and have them not notice. Their head is looking in the direction of one player, but there eyes are looking a different way. Sunglasses arent only use to hide tells

[KidKanuck 0]

Personaly, I wish they'd at least get rid of the glasses, when you try to read someone, the first most natural thing to look at is the eyes. It's probobly the hardest part to control to. I agree, I think the glasses take away a lot of the skill it takes poker players to be the unreadable proffesionals they are. I don't know, seeing as it's such a psychological game, you'd think that players who can read such things would be rewarded for their talent...and then there's online poker....

IMHO...I think glasses and hats are fine...frankly try to tell Doyle Brunson not to wear his Ten Gallon hat to the WSOP main event if he wants to. Sunglasses have always been a part of poker so they are fine with me.I think if you take away the character from the charcaters of poker it would be devastating to the appeal of the game and players.Poker has always been a game for the segment of society that goes against the grain...imposing a dress code would be shameful...it would look like golf in no time and frankly nobody would buy into it.for the record...I think the bicthes, whiners, screamers, beraters, sucks, knowitalls..and just plain disgustingly disrespectful ***holes in general ...should be addressed....and there ARE some situational exceptions...but few.frankly if somebody like Matias started screaming or Josh berated me for a call after he just busted me out as bubble boy or something like that...I would pop him in the mouth...no questions asked..and live with the consequences....I know, I know they are fine people away from the table...but I live by the credo...you get the respect that you show every minute of every day no exceptions....there is another long winded rant by me. :spade:KK

[Guest]

"I think if you take away the character from the charcaters of poker it would be devastating to the appeal of the game and players."Frankly, I could care less if it doesn't attract everybody and their brother to play. I think it takes away from the purity of the game. And Doyle is not a good example because he doesn't hide underneath his cowboy hat.Shifty eyes are a great tell on a bluff. If you cant control these tells then perhaps you have no business putting a move on with a rag hand.Sure there are other tells but why have one of your weapons taken out of your arsenal for public appeal?

[KidKanuck 0]

"I think if you take away the character from the charcaters of poker it would be devastating to the appeal of the game and players."Frankly, I could care less if it doesn't attract everybody and their brother to play. I think it takes away from the purity of the game. And Doyle is not a good example because he doesn't hide underneath his cowboy hat.Shifty eyes are a great tell on a bluff. If you cant control these tells then perhaps you have no business putting a move on with a rag hand.Sure there are other tells but why have one of your weapons taken out of your arsenal for public appeal?

I agree with caring less about attracting everybody and thier brother to play 100%...the games image would be a lot better off without many of the new players....my only fear is that it would drive away a lot of the veteran players who have never allowed people to tell them what to do or how to live thier lives. Problem is when they do start drawing those types of lines...what's to stop Chris Ferguson from letting his hair drape over his eyes to hide them....are they gonna start telling him to put his hair in braids....I'm not trying to be a smartass...I just think people will do whatever they can to get an edge and to get around it...if not C. Ferguson...then for sure someone else with less class.KK

[Guest]

true. But these guys were degenerate gamblers before they became stars, and i'm sure that hasn't changed much now that they are. So I cant see a rule change in terms of hats and tinted glasses will chase them out of the WSOP. But you are right, I'm sure people would just find another way!!!

[KidKanuck 0]

true. But these guys were degenerate gamblers before they became stars, and i'm sure that hasn't changed much now that they are. So I cant see a rule change in terms of hats and tinted glasses will chase them out of the WSOP. But you are right, I'm sure people would just find another way!!!

very true....once a degenerate gambler, always a degenerate gambler...like they say a leopard can't change its spots.KK

[Warren Warrior 0]

Ziggy, I'm trying to see the logic in your post, but there isn't any. How does wearing sunglasses, hats or a hoodie impare in any way the integrity of the game? Do you consider wearing them cheating? I'm starting to believe that you either A) took a bad beat from a guy who you thought was hiding B) put way too much stock in that as the sole means of reading a player C) both or D) are paranoid :wink:. I'm also trying to figure out how simply wearing these clothing articles makes one a degenerate, however I don't think you explicitely implied this but rather indirectly implied such non logic. Adapt, enhance other parts of your game, pay attention to other stuff.I do however have to agree with the table outbursts being a little much. Making an ass of oneself never is a good thing. I'm looking foward to seeing a reply so I might understand your reasoning. Hopefully with logical arguments instead of simply I don't like it.Cheers,WW

[oldadmin 0]

I personally don't mind what anyone wears; whatever it is it's just a personal choice they make. Sometimes it's to throw people off; sometimes it was laundry day.I do my absolute best to not give any tells away when playing online though; I setup my son's Buzz Lightyear tent so I can hide inside it only allowing one of my eyes to be seen - the glass eye - then i use an array of smoke and mirrors for my good eye to make a millisecond glance at the table - and one hand - wearing a glove and sock over the glove - to come out and click when the action is on me.

Hats & hoodies, they don't matter. After all, don't the pros peer into your "soul" to figure out what you have anyways? Ha....I'm still waiting for the first person to show up with a mask at the table, Phantom of the Opera style or something like that. Now that will be some hilarious [expletive deleted].

lolThe only thing I can think of that might be funnier is having a pair of custom-made bi-focals that distort your view and tweak your opponent's physical shape much like the warped mirrors at carnivals and Ripley's. Though I'm not sure this would help me or my opponents win.I might also learn some of the rubber man's tricks, train my eyes to be strong or learn to put my head on my back here http://www.ripleys.com/broadband/odd.html

[Spidurman 0]

My simple take on people dressing all up at the table - if you have to go through all that effort to think you have a chance to win - thanks for the donation

[Guest]

First off, Mr Warrior, dont talk down to me as I am very sure to be your equal. Now that we have that out of the way. My point was this:"Sure there are other tells but why have one of your weapons taken out of your arsenal for public appeal?"I clealy state that if someone is hiding their face or eyes then that is one less tell that you cant read. I want all my weapons at the table available. I view the game as a battle, why give your opponent or allow your opponent to have a advantage over you? As far as the integrity part, If you look back at the old tapes of great games you dont see the greats hiding their entire head in a hoodie after a raise. Its slowly turning into to a great spectator game, but also into a mini circus at the table. Yes these people are colourful but in the end it should be about your skills you obtain not great TV.Hope this sheds a little more light on my opinion, and again, its just my opinion.Zig.

[Smasharoo 0]

Body reads = ludicrously overratted.I think there's nothing funnier than someone wearing sunglesses playing 3/6 limit.I laugh and laugh and tell Hello Kitty to watch them for reads for me and point her at them.

[Mister Hand 0]

."Sure there are other tells but why have one of your weapons taken out of your arsenal for public appeal?"I clealy state that if someone is hiding their face or eyes then that is one less tell that you cant read. I want all my weapons at the table available.

Should a player be penalized for keeping his eyes closed during a hand, on the grounds that he's taking one of your weapons away? Will hair long enough to cover the face be banned if it's not in a pony tail? Would it be illegal to turn around in your chair?

I view the game as a battle, why give your opponent or allow your opponent to have a advantage over you?

Couldn't a player use this exact line of reasoning to justify wearing his glasses? And as long as everyone is allowed to wear glasses, how can any player be said to have an advantage?

[MaxStrick 0]

I dont really mind sunglagges and hats. but when people go allin and pull their hoodup and/or wrap it around their face, i find it retarded and extremely ametuerish mind you I am of course playing with amateurs, lol.

[Warren Warrior 0]

First off, Mr Warrior, dont talk down to me as I am very sure to be your equal. Now that we have that out of the way. My point was this: "Sure there are other tells but why have one of your weapons taken out of your arsenal for public appeal?" I clealy state that if someone is hiding their face or eyes then that is one less tell that you cant read. I want all my weapons at the table available. I view the game as a battle, why give your opponent or allow your opponent to have a advantage over you? As far as the integrity part, If you look back at the old tapes of great games you dont see the greats hiding their entire head in a hoodie after a raise. Its slowly turning into to a great spectator game, but also into a mini circus at the table. Yes these people are colourful but in the end it should be about your skills you obtain not great TV. Hope this sheds a little more light on my opinion, and again, its just my opinion. Zig.Zigman, Sorry if you feel that way, but I wasn't trying to talk down to you. I was merely trying to show that I wanted this to be a civil discussion. On you being equal or not, I don't know. I'm guessing you probably are as, I'm far from being the best in the world. That and I treat everyone I've never plaid before as an equal until proven one way or the other different. That being said, I'm still not seeing any logic to your posts that, as Mr. Hand posted, could be used as reasoning for your opposition's view. You are entitled to your opinion and that's OK, however I still don't think that your oppinions are based on reason. Poker, as you would like it, would seem like an old west shoot out, which can be a good thing. The thing about that is that the shootout scenario could also become a spectator sport. I believe this comes down to that is what your preference is over the camoflage sniper style. Come to think of it that's a pretty good example. In the early days snipers, or sharpshooters as they were called originally, were the most despised soldiers on the battlefield. They held a stigma as cowards, and as a dishonerable person. That stigma has somewhat lifted over time, and snipers are some of the most trained and valued people in the field. Soldiers viewed this as taking the skill of fighting out of war, which the goal of war is to defeat your enemy in any manner deamed feasible. Snipers also instilled a fear in their opponants simply because they couldn't be seen. You never knew where they were going to come from. Translated to poker, you seem to have a fear of what I'm going to refer to as snipers of the game. You can't see them, which you see as taking away from what you can do to beat them. All you have to do to beat a sniper is watch for the muzzle fire. Sure you're going to take a hit from him, but after they've fired their position is compromised. Translate that to poker, you have to watch the card situation and betting patterns to see where they're comfortable firing from.Cheers,WWOh, by the way, thanks for refering to me as Mr. Warrior. It mad me feel special for a minute or two.