mtt: bad move or just bad timing

[seven2off 0]

Bodog 10K 600 entrants, about 110 left. Blinds 200/400. I have around 2.5k, both limpers have me covered. Avg stack around 4500.I'm in BB with Q4 off. Two players MP limp(both fairly aggressive), SB calls, I check.Flop 4s, 10s, Qh.1600 in middle. Sb checks, I check, of course i'm planning on CR(???)First player Mp bets 350Second Mp limper calls.SB folds. 2300 in pot.I feel like i'm pot committed no matter what I do, unless i fold. I push all in(???), first limper calls, second folds. Flips over 44 and the turn and river are bricks. Please evaluate this hand. Thanks.

[custom36 5]

It's fine. Bad beat section is elsewhere, though.

[seven2off 0]

not trying to post a bad beat, just curious about the play, although I realize there is probably no way around it. Just a little T'd off with my tourney play lately, after making a few final tables, and lots of cashes I'm on a long dry spell. Looking for things to improve, that's all.

[Dirtydutch 9]

If I wanted to play, I think I either have to bet 750, or tap cold.If someone bets a draw, you won't make them fold, for another 1000.I'd rather take it down now.Folding would bet bad too.If you think, if you're pot commited just bet.

[gobears 0]

You played it fine; I would have pushed because of the possible spade draw on the board but result would have been the same.With two pair on the flop and you being the short stack, you're all in.

[screech 0]

There's no way you're getting away from this hand.I'm probably pushing my chips in the middle as soon as the action gets to me because I want that 1600 now, and I don't want a flush draw to get the proper odds. As it turns out, the check raise worked to deny the flush draw, but only because the MP bet so little.Let's say MP bets 800. A flush draw may call behind him getting 3:1, or the original bettor may be on a flush draw himself. Now the action gets back to you. You reraise 1300 (2100 - 800), and the pot is now 4500 (if there are no callers between you and original bettor. The original bettor is now getting about 3.5:1 to call, when he's about 3:1 to hit his flush by the river. The same goes if he just has top pair. With 3.5:1 odds, he'd be pretty hard pressed not to call you, and he'd have 6 outs on the flop, and nine on the turn to outdraw you. With callers in between you and the original bettor, this hand gets even worse for you. Now just about any hand is getting the right odds to call.

[BeanGW 0]

Push the flop. Force J-K and the spade draw to suckout on you if they want to play. Otherwise take the pot down there. I don't like the check raise. In most cases, a villain will bet the pot, and you simply won't have enough chips to try the check/raise. You'll be calling them away, when you could be taking the pot down right there while you have at least a little Fold Equity. You are ahead, but not far enough ahead on a draw heavy board to be calling away your chips, IMHO.In this case, this wasn't a bad beat, he was ahead of you the whole time.

[thespoil 0]

I'd move in on the flop here, but otherwise it's fine. As others have already stated there is no way you're getting away from this hand once you're in.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Everybody keeps saying that there is no way to get aw ay from that hand (I said it as well when I first read it), but maybe that is where a bunch of us have a serious flaw in our game...we were the BB, so we have nothing really committed to this pot (can't stop them from putting in our blinds), so why risk going broke on a measly two pair? It's not even the top two pair...sure, there are times that we have the best hand here, but there are also times that we do not (such as this one and countless other times that I can remember flopping a perceived monster from the BB only to lose).Hellmuth (one of the greatest readers in the game), had ace king in the main event Day 1, flop came ace ace 4, his opponent went all-in. Hellmuth folded, the guy showed pocket 4's. A great laydown by Hellmuth, that saved his tournament (he went out a while later, but that is irrelevant).My point is this - I think the majority of us need to re-evaluate some of our decisions in times just like this, and see if we are sure that it was the best play to push there... :wink:

[potpumper43 0]

"Everybody keeps saying that there is no way to get aw ay from that hand (I said it as well when I first read it), but maybe that is where a bunch of us have a serious flaw in our game... "You were already under par stack!!! You aren't getting away from this hand w/ 2500 chips. Maybe with 25000 you could fold it. There's no leaks here, sometimes in a tournament you can't help getting broke.

[screech 0]

Hellmuth (one of the greatest readers in the game), had ace king in the main event Day 1, flop came ace ace 4, his opponent went all-in. Hellmuth folded, the guy showed pocket 4's. A great laydown by Hellmuth, that saved his tournament (he went out a while later, but that is irrelevant).  

It was early in the tournament and he was deep stacked. If his stack was a little less than 5 times the blinds and antes, he would have called in a flash.

[thespoil 0]

Everybody keeps saying that there is no way to get aw ay from that hand (I said it as well when I first read it), but maybe that is where a bunch of us have a serious flaw in our game...we were the BB, so we have nothing really committed to this pot (can't stop them from putting in our blinds), so why risk going broke on a measly two pair?  It's not even the top two pair...

You're below average stack with less than 6BB left after you post the SB, flop 2 pair, and you're waiting for a better spot? Against two limpers and the SB you're way ahead on this flop most of the time. Depending on reads, based on the PF action I don't think you can worry much about QQ or TT. The only thing I'm a bit worried about is the flush but with top and bottom pair and that short a stack in front of me it's all going in the middle anyway. If I get called and the flush hits or someone limped with QT or 44 it's unfortunate but the likelihood of "finding a better spot" than this in the next 8 hands is unlikely.

[Rocketwadster 0]

I agree that hands like this in situations like this are nearly impossible to get away from. My point is that maybe we are incorrect some of the times that we think we cannot get away from the hand... :wink:

[thespoil 0]

I agree that hands like this in situations like this are nearly impossible to get away from.  My point is that maybe we are incorrect some of the times that we think we cannot get away from the hand... :wink:

I agree with you there I just don't think this particular instance is one of those situations.

[creepy20 0]

I think it is correct in the situation that there is NO WAY IN HELL you are folding this flop. Fold the flop if you hate money

[AK33 0]

I agree that hands like this in situations like this are nearly impossible to get away from. My point is that maybe we are incorrect some of the times that we think we cannot get away from the hand... :wink:

I agree with you there I just don't think this particular instance is one of those situations.

With more chips you can lay this down but as it has already been mentioned that in your chip position this is a no brainer. If you don't play this situation aggressively you need to look at your short stack game and reevaluate.