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this is exactly what im getting at, though: the definition of gambling as 'betting on an unknown outcome' is insufficient. Society makes a distinction between activities like skydiving and playing the stockmarket, and poker. Therefore, the definition of gambling (as used today) must be one that allows for this distinction. On what basis do we make this distinction? no one who skydives has a gambling problem. no one who buys stock has a gambling problem. there are poker players who have a gambling problem. What is the distinction?
Now you're getting strange.If I drink 16 glasses of water a day do I have a drinking problem?COMMON SENSE dictates that this terminology applies to drinking alcohol.COMMON SENSE dictates that a gambling problem refers to people who bet money they don't have, and when they win money, the bet it away too....it's an addiction.Now you're worrying about semantics to justify your opinion that poker isn't gambling.
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justblaze.. Since there is betting in poker and a risk of losing money, poker is obviously gambling.Comparing skydiving to poker is just ****ing stupid.

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From American Heritage dictionary:gam·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gmbl)v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles v. intr.To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest. To play a game of chance for stakes. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke. By the first three, poker is gambling...because the fourth applies to skydiving does not negate the fact that poker is gambling, by the dictionary definition of "gamble".
stakes: The prize awarded the winner of a contest or race. makes no mention of value. a contest in which the prize is a trophy is gambling?
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and Yes, there is a difference. Because proper steps and actions can be taken to reduce the chance of losing your money for your candy bar, or losing your life while sky diving. In poker, you cannot take steps before sitting down to play the game that would eliminate the way the cards are dealt, or the cards you recieve. you cant eliminate risk in poker, but you cant eliminate risk in skydiving. you can reduce in both. In Poker., no matter what steps you take, which seat you sit at, or how you watch the dealer shuffle the deck, will not help your chances, or your luck of cards. And that is why it is gambling. And sky-diving and other activities are simply risksare you honestly going to tell me that you cannot influence your chance of success in a poker game?
Yes. I am honestly going to tell you that you cannot influence a change in the way the cards are dealt.. This does not have anything to do if you bet with A,A or fold with A,A.. thats your decision.Just like when skydiving, you can either pull the cord, or not., Although pulling the cord would increase your chance of survival, and betting with A,A would increase your chance of winning money.But again, YOU CAN INFLUENCE YOUR SURVIVAL BY REDUCING YOUR CHANCE AT DEATH WITH PROPER CHUTE PACKING, GUIDES, LESSONS, AND ANYTHING ELSE ASSOCIATED WITH SKYDIVING,YOU CAN NOT INFLUENCE THE WAY THE CARDS ARE DEALT NO MATTER HOW MANY BOOKS YOU READ, YOU WILL NOT RECIEVE POCKET ACES MORE OFTEN BECAUSE YOU SAT NEXT TO THE DEALER.IF YOU THINK FOR A SECOND THAT YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR LUCK OF CARDS BY SITTING IN CERTAIN SEATS, OR HAVING PRE-FLOP RITUALS, THEN YOU HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM.YOU DO NOT HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM WITH SKY-DIVING BECAUSE PROPER CHUTE PACKING, AND PRECAUTIONS WILL INCREASE YOUR CHANCE AT SURVIVAL. THESE ARE MEASURES WHICH NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
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makes no mention of value. a contest in which the prize is a trophy is gambling?You shouldn't use "contest" because it implies participants on both sides and screws your pointless innaccurate previous arguments even further.

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makes no mention of value. a contest in which the prize is a trophy is gambling?You shouldn't use "contest" because it implies participants on both sides and screws your pointless innaccurate previous arguments even further.
concur
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makes no mention of value. a contest in which the prize is a trophy is gambling?You shouldn't use "contest" because it implies participants on both sides and screws your pointless innaccurate previous arguments even further.
you havent answered my simple question. What is the definition of gambling you are using? belittling the question instead of providing an answer does not make your argument seem strong. im sure you know this, mr. harvard...
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For what it's worth, I saw an interview with Chris Ferguson and he doesn't believe that poker is gambling because you have some control of the outcome. To truly gamble you are placing a bet with no possibility of affecting the outcome.

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and Yes, there is a difference. Because proper steps and actions can be taken to reduce the chance of losing your money for your candy bar, or losing your life while sky diving. In poker, you cannot take steps before sitting down to play the game that would eliminate the way the cards are dealt, or the cards you recieve. you cant eliminate risk in poker, but you cant eliminate risk in skydiving. you can reduce in both. In Poker., no matter what steps you take, which seat you sit at, or how you watch the dealer shuffle the deck, will not help your chances, or your luck of cards. And that is why it is gambling. And sky-diving and other activities are simply risksare you honestly going to tell me that you cannot influence your chance of success in a poker game?
Yes. I am honestly going to tell you that you cannot influence a change in the way the cards are dealt.. This does not have anything to do if you bet with A,A or fold with A,A.. thats your decision.Just like when skydiving, you can either pull the cord, or not., Although pulling the cord would increase your chance of survival, and betting with A,A would increase your chance of winning money.But again, YOU CAN INFLUENCE YOUR SURVIVAL BY REDUCING YOUR CHANCE AT DEATH WITH PROPER CHUTE PACKING, GUIDES, LESSONS, AND ANYTHING ELSE ASSOCIATED WITH SKYDIVING,YOU CAN NOT INFLUENCE THE WAY THE CARDS ARE DEALT NO MATTER HOW MANY BOOKS YOU READ, YOU WILL NOT RECIEVE POCKET ACES MORE OFTEN BECAUSE YOU SAT NEXT TO THE DEALER.IF YOU THINK FOR A SECOND THAT YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR LUCK OF CARDS BY SITTING IN CERTAIN SEATS, OR HAVING PRE-FLOP RITUALS, THEN YOU HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM.YOU DO NOT HAVE A GAMBLING PROBLEM WITH SKY-DIVING BECAUSE PROPER CHUTE PACKING, AND PRECAUTIONS WILL INCREASE YOUR CHANCE AT SURVIVAL. THESE ARE MEASURES WHICH NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
you're avoiding the point. just as you can reduce the risk of death in skydiving by properly preparing, taking lessons, etc. you can reduce the risk of losing in a poker game by studying odds, strategies, etc. there is still an element of chance in the way the cards fall, but there is this same element of chance in skydiving. proper preparation cannot guarantee a safe landing, just as proper strategy cannot guarantee a winning session. granted, proper parachute preparation can have a greater effect on chances than proper poker strategy, but what is the point at which the relative effect renders an activity gambling? if you can say one is and one isnt, there must be some magical number where the effect on your odds makes it 'gambling'.
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Bania: Mmm. This soup is great.Jerry: Yeah, it's very good. (reluctantly)Bania: I told you Mendy’s had the best pea soup. The best Jerry, thebest. Are you enjoying it?Jerry: Yeah. I’m having a wonderful time. (it's obvious he isn't)Bania: Wait till you try the swordfish. You know Jerry, I wasthinking. For our next meal, do you think we should come here ... orshould we go someplace else? You know it has it's pros and cons. On theone hand, here, you're guaranteed a great meal. On the other hand --Jerry: (Interrupting Bania) Yeah, yeah I know. This would be good, butit would be the same. But if we go some place else, it would bedifferent, but it might not be as good. It's a gamble. I get it.if you can gamble on mendy's, you can gamble on poker

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you havent answered my simple question. What is the definition of gambling you are using?belittling the question instead of providing an answer does not make your argument seem strong. im sure you know this, mr. harvard...Dp you actually READ the fucking posts, moron, or are you so fixated on looking like a complete idiot that you just post without bothering?I gave you a a definiton 20 posts ago. I replied to your last post by telling you that I allready had.SO FOR THE LAST TIME, I ALLREADY DID, GO BACK AND **READ** THE POSTI'll see if I can't get someone to put a coloring book together for you or something so you can manage to stay focused on stayig in the lines long enough to perhaps read some of the content.

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you're avoiding the point. just as you can reduce the risk of death in skydiving by properly preparing, taking lessons, etc. No one's got the other side of the wager in skydiving.See the diffrence?

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I do not personally believe poker is gambling. Yes there is an element of chance that I can not control. But now that I have given up nl and just play small stakes limit, the cards don't matter as much. I can get stuck for a couple hundred bucks in the first hour, but I know that I am really up 2-3 BB. I mean, would it really be a gamle for DN to play one of us in his heads up challenge? He would beat pretty much all of us 95/100 in a heads up limit game. Poker has variance, not gamble to put it short and sweet.

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For what it's worth, I saw an interview with Chris Ferguson and he doesn't believe that poker is gambling because you have some control of the outcome. To truly gamble you are placing a bet with no possibility of affecting the outcome.
Did he say that exactly? Or did he say that poker was not a game of chance?There is a difference?IMO, Poker is NOT a game of chance (because you don't need the best hand to win - in fact, even in a tournament you only need the best hand ONCE to win a tournament). Unlike blackjack where you can't bluff the House.That, however, does not change the fact that playing poker for money is gambling.
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Is it just me or does this feel like a 5 yr old is saying "Why" to everything we respond with.
god forbid you should have to think. what do you come here for? i come to engage my mind. this issue is relevant to poker (at least for those of us who are interested in the views of society). Interestingly, the response of most 5 year olds to questions like this would be similar to yours. That is, 'this question is stupid.' Its stupid because you cant easily think of the answer. Even the venerable smash has resorted to childlike belittling of the question itself, as it seems he cant provide a logical argument beyond 'it is because it is.'
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Justblaze:I'm confused on what your getting at...Are you talking about the definition of gambling in the legal sense?Are you talking about gambling as a social stigma with no regard to legality?Are you just talking about the word in relation to Webster's?Each argument is different and would be easier if we stopped jumping from one to the other.

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Interestingly, the response of most 5 year olds to questions like this would be similar to yours. That is, 'this question is stupid.' Its stupid because you cant easily think of the answer. Even the venerable smash has resorted to childlike belittling of the question itself, as it seems he cant provide a logical argument beyond 'it is because it is.'No children question everything for no particular reason. Adults question things when there's a reason to.Which one are you doing?You are coming off as a complete fool here as opposed to the philosophical creative free thinker who challanges established ideas you apparently think you are.The word poseur leaps to mind immediately.

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For what it's worth, I saw an interview with Chris Ferguson and he doesn't believe that poker is gambling because you have some control of the outcome. To truly gamble you are placing a bet with no possibility of affecting the outcome.
Did he say that exactly? Or did he say that poker was not a game of chance?There is a difference?IMO, Poker is NOT a game of chance (because you don't need the best hand to win - in fact, even in a tournament you only need the best hand ONCE to win a tournament). Unlike blackjack where you can't bluff the House.That, however, does not change the fact that playing poker for money is gambling.
His statement was that he doesn't believe poker is gambling because you can affect the outcome.
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Justblaze:I'm confused on what your getting at...Are you talking about the definition of gambling in the legal sense?Are you talking about gambling as a social stigma with no regard to legality?Are you just talking about the word in relation to Webster's?Each argument is different and would be easier if we stopped jumping from one to the other.
im talking about gambling as a social stigma with no regard to legality. sorry, i should have clarified.
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Is it just me or does this feel like a 5 yr old is saying "Why" to everything we respond with.
This is the problem with almost everyone who argues a point on this board. They try to argue with the exterior of the argument (what seems most obvious to support their claims) - It would be nice if people did take the time to peel back the onion and understand why they are saying what they are saying. I don't think I've seen a fully sound and logical argument on here with the exception of a couple of posts. Usually it's just opinion or a false certainty in something like a definition.
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Is it just me or does this feel like a 5 yr old is saying "Why" to everything we respond with.
god forbid you should have to think. what do you come here for? i come to engage my mind. this issue is relevant to poker (at least for those of us who are interested in the views of society). Interestingly, the response of most 5 year olds to questions like this would be similar to yours. That is, 'this question is stupid.' Its stupid because you cant easily think of the answer. Even the venerable smash has resorted to childlike belittling of the question itself, as it seems he cant provide a logical argument beyond 'it is because it is.'
Answer this question for me blaze:Do you place bets in poker?If you said yes to the above, please read below:Definition:Gambling (or betting) is any behavior involving the risk of money or valuables on the outcome of a game, contest, or other event in which the outcome of that activity is partially or totally dependent upon chance or on one's ability to do something.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BettingDoes that make things clearer?
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He would beat pretty much all of us 95/100 in a heads up limit game.Haha, no.
I was thinking about a freezeout tourny structure. I said pretty much all of us, he'd get me 99/100. I could get him one time i think. card rush when the blinds got high, if i lasted that long. lol. Smash and a couple of you other guys could do much much better than me, but wouldnt you admit, that a pro like DN heads up against someone much less talented, isn't really gambling. He knows playing any average player is very +EV.
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Interestingly, the response of most 5 year olds to questions like this would be similar to yours. That is, 'this question is stupid.' Its stupid because you cant easily think of the answer. Even the venerable smash has resorted to childlike belittling of the question itself, as it seems he cant provide a logical argument beyond 'it is because it is.'No children question everything for no particular reason. Adults question things when there's a reason to.Which one are you doing?You are coming off as a complete fool here as opposed to the philosophical creative free thinker who challanges established ideas you apparently think you are.The word poseur leaps to mind immediately.
im questioning it for a reason. the reason is that some people in my life have come to the conclusion that i have a gambling problem, on the basis that a) i play a lot of poker and B) poker is gambling. The opinions of these people have a direct effect on my life. You have, instead of engaging in friendly hypothetical debate, decided to resort to calling me such names as 'complete fool, poseur, and moron'. I could be a real dick, like you are, but i think ill blame it on your bipolar disorder, and be the bigger man.
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