poker etiquette... respect the game

[palace casino 0]

Had the following scenario at a weekly game...Pre-Flop3 of 9 players call the BB, player on the Small Blind raises. All others fold except one who reraises. Small blind talks it out a bit and says "I think I'm going to have to go all-in", the other player hears "I'm going to have to go all-in" and quickly calls but doesn't turn over his cards. Small blind says "no, i'll fold" stating that he never committed his chips or his hand.What do you think?

[Pokerdad2222 0]

Kind of ifffy..The guy never really stated that he was going all ing just that he may have to. The other guy should probably listen a little better but that is kind of in between in my book.

[Guest XXEddie]

to go with pokerdad, this is kinda iffyi mean, verbal bets count....but he really didnt say it, id let it slide this time but warn everyone not to do it again

[PMJackson21 0]

Had the following scenario at a weekly game...Pre-Flop3 of 9 players call the BB, player on the Small Blind raises. All others fold except one who reraises. Small blind talks it out a bit and says "I think I'm going to have to go all-in", the other player hears "I'm going to have to go all-in" and quickly calls but doesn't turn over his cards. Small blind says "no, i'll fold" stating that he never committed his chips or his hand.What do you think?

Generally, if you use the words 'all-in' when the action is on you, then you have declared your action, regardless of the context.Here's an example of how you can use that to your advantage from RGP archives:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...4749ae759?hl=enI pulled a dirty move at a recent charity $300 buy in poker tournament, and I would love your thoughts as to whether what I did was genuis or simply shady. Let me preface this by saying that I have a reputation for exploding at the poker table when things don't go my way. It is a trait I am not proud of, but I sometimes can not stop myself from inappropriate outbursts. On to the hand. Acting right after me was a very good and very aggresive player, who would call and reraise my steal attempts at every opportunity. Each time, I would throw my typical tantrum and then toss my cards into the muck. Then this hand came up: With the blinds at 300-600 I raised to 1800 from one off the button with pocket sixes. My nemesis smooth called and both blinds folded. The flop came down 266, and for the first time in my live tourney career I had flopped quads. Knowing my opponent would reraise, I fired out another 1800 rather than slowplay. Sure enough he immediately sprung into action and raised 3600, making it 5400 total. At that point I put him on a high pocket pair. But I also knew that if I reraised him for all 15,000 of my remaining chips, he would most likely make the laydown. And if I simply called him, he would most likely put the brakes on as well. I should mention that he was among the chip leaders with over 25,000 chips. So instead I went into full actress mode. I started throwing another tantrum, this time obviously a phony one. Keep in mind that during my previous tantrums, I always made the laydown so at this point there was no reason to suspect I wouldn't do the same. About 30 seconds into my tirade I said this to him: "I know what you want to hear, he wants to hear me say I'M ALL IN." And boom, the trap was laid. The dealer immediately told me that I had just announced that I was all in. I responded by saying that was bullshit, I was clearly being sarcastic. The dealer and everyone at the table started telling me that when it is my turn to act and I use the words "I'm all in" it means that I am all in. I started going ballistic, calling everyone a bunch of chauvinist pigs that just want to see the woman eliminated, etc. My opponent in the hand was adamant that when I said "all in" the magic words were spoken. Finally the tournament director was brought in to settle the dispute and it was ruled that I was all in. The context of the words are irrelevant. I responded by saying "this is bullshit" and I started to gather my belongings. Obviously my elated opponent called and showed his pocket nines. You can imagine the shock at the table when I revealed my quads! The people at my table thought I just pulled the dirtiest most underhanded trick they had ever seen. My opponent was irate. The whole table was abuzz for the rest of the tourney. I still say I pulled off a brilliant manouver to extract 10,000 extra chips I never would have gotten any other way. What do you all say? PS: I ended finishing in third out of 140.

[asorewinner 0]

my favorite thing to do in home games is...."all-in.......dications are, that I should fold"its stupid, but good for laughs

[Socrates 0]

While it even seems iffy to me, the guy should have listened better.You see people do this all the time, even pros. I've heard "well if I CALL I'll only have X left" or I can't just call, I'd have to go all in if I wanted to play this pot with you" etc...Basically they are just talking it out to themselves. Essentially, if there is any question, you should always ask the person, did you just say X?

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

Thats positively brilliant and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, because he was trying to take advantage of a situation thats kind of underhanded also. This a rule I didnt know and I've been playing for years. Never seen it come up. It stands to reason that others have not heard of it. It seems like someone was trying to take advantage of you in the situation, and even though u presented the opportunity for them to do it, I applaud you for turning this cheap rule around on them. Its obvious that rule would have been abused in this situation had not been staged. I mean really it was obvious u did not intend to go all in, and they were gonna be super underhanded by enforcing a technicality. I think its his fault for not catching on to the high drama. I immediately get suspicious when someone faced with a raise starts talking so confidently (not about hand but their demeanor).Referring to Jackson's post

[PMJackson21 0]

Thats positively brilliant and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, because he was trying to take advantage of a situation thats kind of underhanded also. This a rule I didnt know and I've been playing for years. Never seen it come up. It stands to reason that others have not heard of it. It seems like someone was trying to take advantage of you in the situation, and even though u presented the opportunity for them to do it, I applaud you for turning this cheap rule around on them. Its obvious that rule would have been abused in this situation had not been staged. I mean really it was obvious u did not intend to go all in, and they were gonna be super underhanded by enforcing a technicality. I think its his fault for not catching on to the high drama. I immediately get suspicious when someone faced with a raise starts talking so confidently (not about hand but their demeanor).Referring to Jackson's post

Actually, it was a 'she' that posted that story on RGP..Michelle Spiro or something. Whether or not it was an angle shoot is debatable, but it was pretty funny. :-)Patrick

[Limit Player 0]

I always take the same amount of time to make every move, and I always wait until the person moves their chips before I act. That being said, I think the verbal bet should count and the small blind should have been held to it.Also, Jackson's story is ok, but I don't really respect players who have to rely on gimmicks to win. If you want to throw a line or two out there for psychological purposes, go for it, but save the drama. I'm amazed the person didn't see through it. Most people suck at acting.

[PMJackson21 0]

I always take the same amount of time to make every move, and I always wait until the person moves their chips before I act. That being said, I think the verbal bet should count and the small blind should have been held to it.Also, Jackson's story is ok, but I don't really respect players who have to rely on gimmicks to win. If you want to throw a line or two out there for psychological purposes, go for it, but save the drama. I'm amazed the person didn't see through it. Most people suck at acting.

Ha, she was a woman - they are better actors. :-)Then again, here is a similar story from pokertrails.com:------------Marcel Luske The ActorJeff Henry June 18th, 2005I was playing an $1,800 buy in single table satellite to the main event at the Five Diamonds Classic at the Bellagio. Marcel Luske was at the table, sunglasses upside down as usual, and chatting up anyone who’d listen. He already had his entry, had been playing a lot of these, chopping them or taking the cash. A few others were doing the same, like me, and had been there for the all the early events. But this was the last day for these big satellites, as the main event was the next day. A few players just arrived, taking a stab at an entry at the last minute. Included among them was Joe Awata, who arrived well dressed in a jacket and tie, and with a bag containing lunch from Snacks, a nice little sandwich and salad type of place right next to the poker room and sports book. It looked like Joe had just gotten into town. Joe handed Jason, the guy running the room that day, $1,800 cash and took the last seat, so we could finally start the satellite. A few of us decided to put in some extra money on the side as a last longer bet to sweeten the money a bit. I think four of us agreed to put in an extra $200 for the last longer, not that it matters. Joe, having just arrived, was mostly focused on his lunch, but looked up just long enough to agree to join the last longer. He turned sideways while he ate; turning back only to look at his cards, and wasn’t watching the play at all otherwise unless he was playing the hand. Maybe ten minutes into the satellite, Joe was in a hand with Marcel and some young kid. The flop was T 6 5, don’t remember if was suited at all. Marcel led out, and the kid called, followed by a raise from Joe. Marcel called and the kid dropped out. Marcel was scarcely paying attention anymore than Joe was. Marcel, as always, was chatting with people around the table and signing some autographs. Joe was still focused on his lunch. The turn was a 5, for a board of T 6 5 5. Marcel bet out 200, Joe raised to 1,200 chips, and Marcel, still chatting away, looked back at the action, showed surprise at being raised, looked at his cards, and reached casually for his chips and placed two $100 chips and two $1,000 chips into the pot. The dealer announced a raise, and Marcel, who had been steadily talking with people behind him, instantly turned and said he only intended to call and thought the $1,000 chips were $500s and that the amount he put in wasn’t enough for a raise. The dealer said it was, 200 to 1,200 the minimum reraise would be 2,200. Having been watching Marcel chatting and barely looking at the game, I wasn’t surprised. I was surprised though when Marcel, who knows the rules of the game, demanded that he be allowed to simply call. When the dealer said it had to be a raise, Marcel called for the floor. Oh God, I thought, he’s putting on a show, protesting, making a scene in front of his fans, but he knows what they’ll say, it’s a raise and the raise will stand. Marcel insisted, and put up a fuss about how the color of the 500 and 1,000 chips were so similar. Eventually it became clear that the raise would stand. Joe, who had started to pay more attention when the floor was called, began to smell blood. He decided to reraise all-in. A few people laughed and said well you had to see that coming. Marcel surprised me, quickly called and turned over 6 5 for a made boat to beat Joe’s hand, whatever it was. Joe, still about 90% focused on his lunch, looked up, confused, and then figured out that Marcel had staged the whole thing. I didn’t see it coming, and said so to the young kid, who was laughing loudly as soon as he saw what Marcel was holding. The kid said, “C’mon, it’s Marcel Luske, I knew that was what he was doing. It was obvious.” Marcel shrugged, and said, “Well, you have to remember to always play poker.” Later, I was playing next to Marcel’s friend, David Williams, and I told him about the play. He laughed and said he and Marcel had just talked about doing that a few days earlier, and some similar moves. I also saw David raise preflop with 6h 4h, which wasn’t a play I normally try. He flopped a couple of fours and an 8 and won a huge pot from a guy with queens, I’d say because the guy just couldn’t put David on a four or a better pair. It was certainly entertaining watching these guys play, and also provided me a bit of a lesson. One is to pay attention to the table and not food, drink or the Bellagio’s fabulously beautiful cocktail waitresses. Second, there are a lot of things one can work on to improve our games. I always focused on discipline, mixing up my play, and paying attention to the play at the table and adjusting my play to suit the table. I’m not a good enough actor to try the Marcel move, but I have tried the play David made with low suited semi connectors, and I find it added something to my game. You can catch a big flop and have a stealthy monster, or toss the hand semi cheaply if the flop doesn’t fit perfectly. The point, perhaps, is any other little extra edge you can get could make a difference, so I decided to submerse myself in poker materials and absorb everything I can just in case I can add something to my game, even if its something very minor or subtle that I can only use once in a while. ------------Patrick

[EVILGENIUS 0]

palace casino wrote: Had the following scenario at a weekly game... Pre-Flop3 of 9 players call the BB, player on the Small Blind raises. All others fold except one who reraises. Small blind talks it out a bit and says "I think I'm going to have to go all-in", the other player hears "I'm going to have to go all-in" and quickly calls but doesn't turn over his cards. Small blind says "no, i'll fold" stating that he never committed his chips or his hand. What do you think? Generally, if you use the words 'all-in' when the action is on you, then you have declared your action, regardless of the context. Here's an example of how you can use that to your advantage from RGP archives: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...4749ae759?hl=en I pulled a dirty move at a recent charity $300 buy in poker tournament, and I would love your thoughts as to whether what I did was genuis or simply shady. Let me preface this by saying that I have a reputation for exploding at the poker table when things don't go my way. It is a trait I am not proud of, but I sometimes can not stop myself from inappropriate outbursts. On to the hand. Acting right after me was a very good and very aggresive player, who would call and reraise my steal attempts at every opportunity. Each time, I would throw my typical tantrum and then toss my cards into the muck. Then this hand came up: With the blinds at 300-600 I raised to 1800 from one off the button with pocket sixes. My nemesis smooth called and both blinds folded. The flop came down 266, and for the first time in my live tourney career I had flopped quads. Knowing my opponent would reraise, I fired out another 1800 rather than slowplay. Sure enough he immediately sprung into action and raised 3600, making it 5400 total. At that point I put him on a high pocket pair. But I also knew that if I reraised him for all 15,000 of my remaining chips, he would most likely make the laydown. And if I simply called him, he would most likely put the brakes on as well. I should mention that he was among the chip leaders with over 25,000 chips. So instead I went into full actress mode. I started throwing another tantrum, this time obviously a phony one. Keep in mind that during my previous tantrums, I always made the laydown so at this point there was no reason to suspect I wouldn't do the same. About 30 seconds into my tirade I said this to him: "I know what you want to hear, he wants to hear me say I'M ALL IN." And boom, the trap was laid. The dealer immediately told me that I had just announced that I was all in. I responded by saying that was censored, I was clearly being sarcastic. The dealer and everyone at the table started telling me that when it is my turn to act and I use the words "I'm all in" it means that I am all in. I started going ballistic, calling everyone a bunch of chauvinist pigs that just want to see the woman eliminated, etc. My opponent in the hand was adamant that when I said "all in" the magic words were spoken. Finally the tournament director was brought in to settle the dispute and it was ruled that I was all in. The context of the words are irrelevant. I responded by saying "this is censored" and I started to gather my belongings. Obviously my elated opponent called and showed his pocket nines. You can imagine the shock at the table when I revealed my quads! The people at my table thought I just pulled the dirtiest most underhanded trick they had ever seen. My opponent was irate. The whole table was abuzz for the rest of the tourney. I still say I pulled off a brilliant manouver to extract 10,000 extra chips I never would have gotten any other way. What do you all say? PS: I ended finishing in third out of 140.

I'm very impressed.

[fryer98 30]

One thing that happens at my home games a lot that I tell people that should get in the practice of NOT doing, but we seem to let is slide is this:One player says "I'm all-in?" and another players says "all-in?" in a question like manner. I tell them that if they ever play in a casino or big tourney, they would probably be force to move all-in also.If it wasn't friends in a home game, I would make them also, but I have to let some things slide.

[No_Neck 0]

HE CALLED ME WITH JACK HIGH!!!!

[dmoneypoker 0]

Had the following scenario at a weekly game...Pre-Flop3 of 9 players call the BB, player on the Small Blind raises. All others fold except one who reraises. Small blind talks it out a bit and says "I think I'm going to have to go all-in", the other player hears "I'm going to have to go all-in" and quickly calls but doesn't turn over his cards. Small blind says "no, i'll fold" stating that he never committed his chips or his hand.What do you think?

Generally, if you use the words 'all-in' when the action is on you, then you have declared your action, regardless of the context.Here's an example of how you can use that to your advantage from RGP archives:http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.ga...4749ae759?hl=enI pulled a dirty move at a recent charity $300 buy in poker tournament, and I would love your thoughts as to whether what I did was genuis or simply shady. Let me preface this by saying that I have a reputation for exploding at the poker table when things don't go my way. It is a trait I am not proud of, but I sometimes can not stop myself from inappropriate outbursts. On to the hand. Acting right after me was a very good and very aggresive player, who would call and reraise my steal attempts at every opportunity. Each time, I would throw my typical tantrum and then toss my cards into the muck. Then this hand came up: With the blinds at 300-600 I raised to 1800 from one off the button with pocket sixes. My nemesis smooth called and both blinds folded. The flop came down 266, and for the first time in my live tourney career I had flopped quads. Knowing my opponent would reraise, I fired out another 1800 rather than slowplay. Sure enough he immediately sprung into action and raised 3600, making it 5400 total. At that point I put him on a high pocket pair. But I also knew that if I reraised him for all 15,000 of my remaining chips, he would most likely make the laydown. And if I simply called him, he would most likely put the brakes on as well. I should mention that he was among the chip leaders with over 25,000 chips. So instead I went into full actress mode. I started throwing another tantrum, this time obviously a phony one. Keep in mind that during my previous tantrums, I always made the laydown so at this point there was no reason to suspect I wouldn't do the same. About 30 seconds into my tirade I said this to him: "I know what you want to hear, he wants to hear me say I'M ALL IN." And boom, the trap was laid. The dealer immediately told me that I had just announced that I was all in. I responded by saying that was censored, I was clearly being sarcastic. The dealer and everyone at the table started telling me that when it is my turn to act and I use the words "I'm all in" it means that I am all in. I started going ballistic, calling everyone a bunch of chauvinist pigs that just want to see the woman eliminated, etc. My opponent in the hand was adamant that when I said "all in" the magic words were spoken. Finally the tournament director was brought in to settle the dispute and it was ruled that I was all in. The context of the words are irrelevant. I responded by saying "this is censored" and I started to gather my belongings. Obviously my elated opponent called and showed his pocket nines. You can imagine the shock at the table when I revealed my quads! The people at my table thought I just pulled the dirtiest most underhanded trick they had ever seen. My opponent was irate. The whole table was abuzz for the rest of the tourney. I still say I pulled off a brilliant manouver to extract 10,000 extra chips I never would have gotten any other way. What do you all say? PS: I ended finishing in third out of 140.

will you marry me?

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

I pulled a dirty move at a recent charity Sorry, I just found that funny. Compliment of PMJac

[r18 0]

I pulled a dirty move at a recent charity  Sorry, I just found that funny.  Compliment of PMJac

Yeah. That's by far the best part of the story.As far as Marcel's move goes- I remember reading recently about Johnny Chan doing the same thing where he pretended to call (with pocket aces) but threw in the wrong chips and was told he had raised. (Might have been the 25G tourney at Bellagio?) I think other guy then reraised Chan all in and quickly found out that Chan hadn't actually made a mistake.

[Jelly-Filled Ace 1]

Had the following scenario at a weekly game...Pre-Flop3 of 9 players call the BB, player on the Small Blind raises. All others fold except one who reraises. Small blind talks it out a bit and says "I think I'm going to have to go all-in", the other player hears "I'm going to have to go all-in" and quickly calls but doesn't turn over his cards. Small blind says "no, i'll fold" stating that he never committed his chips or his hand.What do you think?

I think that would've been the last hand he woulda played in our home game.Casinos uphold verbal commitments, so should a home game.

[PMJackson21 0]

I pulled a dirty move at a recent charity  Sorry, I just found that funny.  Compliment of PMJac

Yeah. That's by far the best part of the story.As far as Marcel's move goes- I remember reading recently about Johnny Chan doing the same thing where he pretended to call (with pocket aces) but threw in the wrong chips and was told he had raised. (Might have been the 25G tourney at Bellagio?) I think other guy then reraised Chan all in and quickly found out that Chan hadn't actually made a mistake.

Yeah, that was in the WPT Championship vs JohnnyBax (IMO best online tournament player, the guy who won a stud bracelet this year in his first stud tourney ever). After I read about the hand, I emailed Bax and asked him about it. To summarize, he said he didn't think Chan was shooting an angle, but he was more perplexed that Chan called his all-in with AA. It was very early in the tournament, and Bax (who had KK btw) felt Chan should have put him on a set. I wish I had saved the email to detail exactly how the action went, but Bax said the pros he talked to were surprised JC called as well.Patrick