Nazareth 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Hey folks- I'm new here- not much of a poker player- My question is (Actually it was a question in another forum) is this: You get A-A early in a tourney- Cards haven't been falling for you, it comes around to you & you bet a good bet- the guy next to you raises you all in. Do you take a gamble & face being out of tourney early? You know the guy usally has good hands & won't raise unless he does. Or do you fold & wait for flops that don't put you all in?One other situation- again an all in situation early in tourney:Got dealt 10-J suited- got to see flop for reasonable price- Flop shows A-A-Q mixed suits. Guy next to you checks so you check knowing he's trapped people before. Tunr shows a K giving you both flush draw and straight draw. You raise- Everyone folds but hte guy next to you- the dude goes over the top & raises you all in- Do you Fold or play? You haven't seen enough of the guy next to you to know if He's got cards or workin on a bluff.I'll tell ya what the guy had after you reply. Link to post Share on other sites
Outlaw_IA 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If you fold AA to a single all in, you need to quit playing poker. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutcracker 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Expect to get flamed for asking this question, as it is very obvious, but I'll explain it to you hopefully before your balls get ripped off.You call, every time, easily. You are no worse than a 3:1 favorite, and likely if he's pushing all in, he has KK or AK, meaning you are a 4:1 or 8:1 favorite. You may have had bad luck up to this point, but there is really no such thing as luck. You are no less likely to win this simply because you've had a bad run in the tourney up to this point. This is the best situation possible. You call here in a heartbeat and double up 80%+ of the time.As for the TJ hand, you need to include things like chip stacks and table position before anyone can make an accuract assessment. Link to post Share on other sites
gobears 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 AA is a no brainer - call. Good question to ask if you want to get flamed.The 10Js is a better question. By the way, the turn doesn't give you a straight draw - I'm assuming that you made a straight and also have a flush draw. I call; if he has the boat, good for him.Also, if you have a flush draw then you do have one out to the royal flush even if he has the boat. Link to post Share on other sites
bigkg 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Got dealt 10-J suited- got to see flop for reasonable price- Flop shows A-A-Q mixed suits. Guy next to you checks so you check knowing he's trapped people before. Tunr shows a K giving you both flush draw and straight draw. You raise- Everyone folds but hte guy next to you- the dude goes over the top & raises you all in- Do you Fold or play? You haven't seen enough of the guy next to you to know if He's got cards or workin on a bluff.I'll tell ya what the guy had after you reply.You say reasonable price preflop.OK.How much is reasonable, 3x BB, 4xBB? Was it an EP raise or LP raise? This imformation is very important in order to figure out if you're ahead. Link to post Share on other sites
Nazareth 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 Well, thanks for replying, as I said, i aint very good- The things I would concider is the buy in fee for the tourney (Like on the WPT where it is $10,000 sometimes) & the possibility of losing that & going home broke early after playing only a couple of hands compared to folding hte hand and waiting for flops that aren't that expensive & might have better draws- I guess I'm too conservative? I know the odds are in your favour with A-A, but I do see A-A lose often- I could see playing for half of my chips or even 2/3's, but facing going broke one one hand? Early on? You guys would do it? Btw- I only play for play money- illegal in my state to play online for dough. But wanted to ask about real money tourney situations. I guess I liek to see flops to determine going all in or not_ I guess I probably shouldn't concider tourneys with htis mindset then.Woops- yeah I meant it gave you the straight- sorry. You wouldn't figure that he called all in because he had A-K or even A-Q suited? Again risking everything & going home early? I also didn't mean it gave both of you a flush draw- but meant it gave you a flush draw and a straight- didn't word my question well lol- sorryReason I ask is because I was watching the pro poker tour & of course we all knew what everyone had & one guy (Can't remember who it was) had a straight & got called all in with a possible boat on the board- The all-iner had nothing. The anouncers (Both pros) both commented "WOW, nice laydown, that took guts" when the one with straight folded. 'Guts'? That's what got me thinking about my second question I guess.BigKg- it was a late position all in raiseOh, & the guy had nothing in the first question- he showed his K-2 after the fold Link to post Share on other sites
DRskateNT 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Naz.. bottom line you can't play this conservative in poker... if you can't call with AA preflop... what do you call with? Having someone go all in in front of you with AA is something you spank to... especially for a bunch of chips.... of course you won't win everytime, but you'll win most of the time... and thats poker... you can feel ok if you lose here because you mad ethe right play. They key to poker according to Mike caro is making correct decisions. In this case calling is the correct decision. If you don't think you could ever do that for real money then you should prob stick with play money.... Link to post Share on other sites
gobears 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Woops- yeah I meant it gave you the straight- sorry. You wouldn't figure that he called all in because he had A-K or even A-Q suited? Again risking everything & going home early? I also didn't mean it gave both of you a flush draw- but meant it gave you a flush draw and a straight- didn't word my question well lol- sorryYou said that you didn't have a read on this guy and that you got in at a reasonable price. I put that guy on quite a range of hands then and only AK, AQ as well as the PPs of AA, KK, QQ have you beat. Typically, hands like that will come in strong pre-flop to thin the field and not let you draw at a reasonable price.Chip stacks and where the blinds are also come into play. He has you covered so that is a negative.With the flush draw and if the K and Q are your flush cards on the board, then you have two outs to the nuts if he has the boat.I still gamble and call with the made straight. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Do you take a gamble & face being out of tourney early?Nah, easy fold. Link to post Share on other sites
bascomeb 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 naz tell me the next time you are playing in a tourney.Because I really want to steal your blinds now Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Do you take a gamble & face being out of tourney early?I really hope you are kidding. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Depending how deep the stack/blind ratio is and how big the tournament is, it's not as easy a decision as you guys seem to think.Accumulating chips without seeing flops is the real goal. Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 It was only one all in smash, AA is the best hand heads up pre-flop, this isn't even a shadow of a doubt. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 It was only one all in smash, AA is the best hand heads up pre-flop, this isn't even a shadow of a doubt.The point is putting yourself at 1/5 to go home might not be the best option for all players.That's all.Accumulation and risk management is more important that doubleing up somtimes Link to post Share on other sites
NickTheKid 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If they don't take a 5:1 chance... they shouldn't be gambling. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If they don't take a 5:1 chance... they shouldn't be gambling.Think of it this way.Danel has AA second round of blinds in a deep stack tournament. He and the all in before him both have 10,000 in chips. The blinds are 1. Is it more likely Daniel can ge to 20,000 chips if folds than 5 to1?I'd tend to think it is. Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 If they don't take a 5:1 chance... they shouldn't be gambling.Think of it this way.Danel has AA second round of blinds in a deep stack tournament. He and the all in before him both have 10,000 in chips. The blinds are 1. Is it more likely Daniel can ge to 20,000 chips if folds than 5 to1?I'd tend to think it is.Yeah, but if he goes all-in here, it's 5-1 that he'll have 30,000 or more chips at that point where he otherwise would've had only 20,000. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Yeah, but if he goes all-in here, it's 5-1 that he'll have 30,000 or more chips at that point where he otherwise would've had only 20,000.1-5 that he goes home there.Why is this hard?Would you call as a 55/45 favorite here? Link to post Share on other sites
Nazareth 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 wow- lots of replies- thanks guys, good discussion even if you are losing me a bit with the tech talk lol- (I'm poker-speak illiterate almost lol)interesting topic (to me anyways0- will comment more a bit later- watching Boston Vs. N.Y poker tourney now Link to post Share on other sites
Nutcracker 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Smash does bring up a point. If you think you have a better than 80% chance of doubling your chips without having to risk many, you can fold here. Of course, your opponents can't know about this plan of yours, or they can steal from you with impunity. And very very few people are good enough to have that kind of confidence.But I'm not superman or DN, I gotta call this. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Of course, your opponents can't know about this plan of yours, or they can steal from you with impunityWho cares?They can steal all the 10 chip blinds by pushing into me that they want. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 The way I play poker is if I have the best hand when I put the money in, I'm happy. If you don't win, well that's poker.I was in a 20 dollar buy in and got AA like the third hand(1500 starting chips). So it came around to me and I did the usual 3x bb raise, and people folded, and then a guy came over the top of me for all my chips(we both had started the hand at 1500). I called immediately and the fool turned up j10 offsuit. He ended up getting a straight on the river and then he said, and I quote "heh sorry, I just really love these cards." "I really love these cards?" You have got to be kidding me. I wasn't terribly upset about the straight because that happens in poker, but the decision to come over the top of me for all my chips is just absurd. I can't beat stupidity and luck when they're working together. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 The way I play poker is if I have the best hand when I put the money in, I'm happy. If you don't win, well that's poker. That's a stupid, stupid, way to play tournament poker. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 How so? I mean, I've heard tons of pros say "the best thing you can do is put your money in when you have the best hand."I remember in the 2004 WSOP when Doyle Brunson knocked out howard lederer. When Brunson went all in on the flop with the flush draw, if he told Howard "I have a flush draw"(couldn't happen but let's just imagine it could) do you honesstly think Howard would fold his set of 7s because he's afraid of losing to the possible flush? I honestly don't think he would, but I might be wrong. I'm not saying I'm happy about losing because hey"i had the best hand at one point" but at least I know my read was correct. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 How so? I mean, I've heard tons of pros say "the best thing you can do is put your money in when you have the best hand." Think of it this way.If you allways faces opponenets with stacks the same size as yours and you allways went all in as a 60/40 favorite, how many times would you have to go all in before you'd be favored to go home?That's right, three. Link to post Share on other sites
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