full tilt poker comes through!!!

[custom36 4]

I'm not an RGP'er - I'm a faithful FCP'er. :wink: If you would like to post it over there, be my guest. I would love to hear what he has to say about it. :?

What IS RGP? Excuse my naivity but I'm fairly new to the "gaming" world.

rec.gambling.pokerWeb address is http://www.recpoker.comIt used to be the best place for poker advice and where all the pros posted. Now it's a bunch of flaming children and spammers.

[dead money 1]

wow thats pretty crazy. i was in a freeroll recently on full tilt where the winner got a free $75 token. it was down to me and this other guy and i didnt really want the token(i was only playing the event because a friend of mind wanted me to play in it with him). i had about a 2 to 1 chip lead when i offered him a deal. i told him i would dump the tourney to him if he would transfer $30 to my account. he agreed and i dumped to him and he transfered the money to me. i had no problems with full tilt and nobody said anything to me about. that sucks for you man and i cant believe they treated you that way. i would have gotten just as mad if i was accused of cheating. better luck in the future for you

[justblaze 0]

I'm not an RGP'er - I'm a faithful FCP'er. :wink: If you would like to post it over there, be my guest. I would love to hear what he has to say about it. :?

What IS RGP? Excuse my naivity but I'm fairly new to the "gaming" world.

rec.gambling.pokerWeb address is http://www.recpoker.comIt used to be the best place for poker advice and where all the pros posted. Now it's a bunch of flaming children and spammers.

actually, recpoker.com is not the 'web address'. its the web address of a web based access client for rec.gambling.poker, which is in fact a newsgroup. there are hundreds of other newsgroups. they can all be accessed via newsgroup readers, or even programs like MS outlook, as well as web based portals. AND, if you set your filters and killfiles correctly, you can still glean some useful information.

[gadzooks64 0]

I just did a chop on Full tilt last week. We did it because the prize was top heavy and the chipleader had a substansial lead to me and another guy. We had some trouble transferring the money to each other's accounts. Not because they wouldn't let us. Because we hadn't made our deposits long enough ago.So I emailed them the problem including the situation of the chop and they didn't say anything about it.From the emails we got from support, their staff is not on the same page.

I watched you guys do that!Did you finally get the $ situation straight?? I'm glad I found this out before I tried to do that. I like it at FT and wouldn't want to be kicked out for doing that.I was playing in a SNG the other day where I made it to heads up. The other guy said he had to go and was just going to go all in each time. I was very leary. Told him I couldn't do. He told me his cards the next hand. We ended up all in and I won. But, seriously, why the hell would you start something you couldn't finish?? WTF!

[poguemahone68 0]

Wow, thats pretty bad by Full Tilt, but why not play it out to see who won? Maybe its just me, but ending the tourney that I played well in just to chop is a little unfullfilling.

I would normally agree, and very rarely (if ever) chop. It was a limit tournament and the blinds had gotten to the point where it was pretty ridiculous with regard to our respective chip stacks. So, we made a deal. Seemed innocent enough at the time.

I think the point he was making was that you can make a deal to chop and then play it out normally without chip dumping. That might be why Full Tilt got weird about this one? I dunno.This situation is really lame though. Chops happen all day every day in casinos and online. I've even seen an entire final table chop based on chipcount. Tournament directors bring calculators to the final table just for figuring out chops.I'd really like to see what all their customers think about this.

[MilesZS 0]

Evidently whoever handled your case at Full Tilt doesn't understand poker. They probably just read your chat and realized you were saying something about dumping chips and immediately assumed that they had to ban you for that. Collusion isn't collusion when there are only two players who can collude. If you care about your account and the opportunity to play there again, I would recommend you CALL support (if you can) and request a chat with someone more important than whoever answers the phone. Ask for someone that understands poker fairly well. Then explain the situation calmly.I can't picture you not getting your account back if you can get through to someone with half a poker brain.

[blueodum 0]

I agree- what you did was not collusion - which would be combining with the intent of harming a third party. They were wrong to claim you were colluding.

[VicRattlehead 0]

Wow, thats pretty bad by Full Tilt, but why not play it out to see who won? Maybe its just me, but ending the tourney that I played well in just to chop is a little unfullfilling.

I would normally agree, and very rarely (if ever) chop. It was a limit tournament and the blinds had gotten to the point where it was pretty ridiculous with regard to our respective chip stacks. So, we made a deal. Seemed innocent enough at the time.

I think the point he was making was that you can make a deal to chop and then play it out normally without chip dumping. That might be why Full Tilt got weird about this one? I dunno.This situation is really lame though. Chops happen all day every day in casinos and online. I've even seen an entire final table chop based on chipcount. Tournament directors bring calculators to the final table just for figuring out chops.I'd really like to see what all their customers think about this.

The reason for the chip dump was that he was brand new to the site and could not make a money transfer if he won. So, he dumped to me and I made the transfer to him. Otherwise, yes, we could have just made our agreement and played it out.

[PMJackson21 0]

I'm not an RGP'er - I'm a faithful FCP'er. :wink: If you would like to post it over there, be my guest. I would love to hear what he has to say about it. :?

What IS RGP? Excuse my naivity but I'm fairly new to the "gaming" world.

rec.gambling.pokerWeb address is http://www.recpoker.comIt used to be the best place for poker advice and where all the pros posted. Now it's a bunch of flaming children and spammers.

Damn it...I can't figure out if I'm one of the flaming children or a spammer. I'm too old to be considered a child per say, but I can be immature... Hmmm, but I did post my pokertrails reports there one week when Jon failed to get them up...So spammer it is. :-)One day I hope to rise to JustBlaze's level on RGP, with threads dedicated to me, stalkers, people impersonating me via IM to extort money from other RGPers, and the like. When that happens, I'll truly arrived...Or wait....I'd need a blog too. ;-)Patrick

[KTW 0]

I used to get bad looks when I did not wish to chop during live games. I like heads up play and it did not slow the game because the dealers were so bad and slow anyway it just didn't affect the game. Keep in mind I am not speaking of small game. 8) I am VERY surprised to hear about the FTP situation as I have seen chops and deals 100s of times. :roll:

[Outlaw_IA 0]

I just installed FTP the other day.I will be deleting it now.F them.

[HoosierAlum 0]

First of all, I am sorry to hear about this. You think such a popular site would have a strategy for such procedures.On another note, what other online site sites allow chops? I have accounts on UB and Party, so I was wondering if anyone has ever chopped on either of these sites. If you have, what procedure do you follow to pause the play so you can discuss the deal?I was at a final table on UB on Sunday, and I would have made a chop, but I had no idea what I had to do in order to pause the play. Do I just have to type in the text box and ask for a site administrator? If anyone has expereince chopping at UB or Party let me know. It would be good information for the future.

[PMJackson21 0]

First of all, I am sorry to hear about this. You think such a popular site would have a strategy for such procedures.On another note, what other online site sites allow chops? I have accounts on UB and Party, so I was wondering if anyone has ever chopped on either of these sites. If you have, what procedure do you follow to pause the play so you can discuss the deal?I was at a final table on UB on Sunday, and I would have made a chop, but I had no idea what I had to do in order to pause the play. Do I just have to type in the text box and ask for a site administrator? If anyone has expereince chopping at UB or Party let me know. It would be good information for the future.

UB and Party do not support deals; I've been told that the UB ToS prohibits them, but I have seen deals done. Instead of support handling the transfers, you have to trust the eventual winner to be honest and to do it. Patrick

[VicRattlehead 0]

Still no response from FTP on my last email. :roll: Not that I really expect one. :?

[DKE_XP120 0]

My opinion on this matter is obviously in the minority:I support Full Tilt's "no chop" policy.  I think it goes against the spirit of any contest for first and second place to be chopped.

Would you feel the same way if rent was do, and the blinds were so huge it was alot less about skill?

[DKE_XP120 0]

I just installed FTP the other day.I will be deleting it now.F them.

Its best to uninstall it from the control panel, just deleting it can cause a problem later on

[VicRattlehead 0]

Yeah, that sucks that your account was closed. But, if this had happened on Party, you wouldn't have gotten your money back. So, at least they weren't total jerks.If you ever get a response from them, post it here. I'd be interested to see what they say.

Still no response from the donkeys at FTP

[PMJackson21 0]

Yeah, that sucks that your account was closed. But, if this had happened on Party, you wouldn't have gotten your money back. So, at least they weren't total jerks.If you ever get a response from them, post it here. I'd be interested to see what they say.

Still no response from the donkeys at FTP

Interesting. GambleAB didn't respond to the thread on RGP regarding this, so he probably didn't know anything. I've been told Perry will answer (or do his best to) FTP related questions via his personal email, but I'm hesitant to bother him at this time of year.For the most part, people think FTP is way out of line in this situation, however there are a few people that think FTP did what was right. Was there anything besides the incident that FTP cited as a reason for closing your account? I knw you mentioned you went back and forth via email for a week or so.Patrick

[VicRattlehead 0]

Nope - just the "collusion" :wink:

[Angelo 0]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. Maybe it's just because i'm in the midst of bar exam study and i'll use any oppurtunity to take a break and distract myself, but i couldn't help noticing the 2 rules you cited from the FTP TOS. Assuming they are correctly cited, they don't necessarily contradict each other. Nevertheless, it seems like you were treated unfairly, even under these rules. The text of Rule 13 expressly contimplates the possibility of players making deals in tournaments. It refers to "any and all deals made" and rather than prohibiting them, merely assigns resposibility for their execution to the players only. It's strange that they would treat you as they did, after the fact of the deal, when one of their own rules shows they are aware of the potential for deal-making, but nevertheless doesn't explicitly prohibit such deals. Indeed, they implicitly welcome deal-making by mentioning it the way they do in Rule 13. The other other rule, Rule 26, prohibits chip dumping/soft-playing, which you technically did do. But that shouldn't make a difference. It seems obvious that the purpose for such a rule is to prohbit "collusion" (which is what they accused you of). Just based on the definition of collusion, it seems pretty evident that you didn't "collude" with your friend. The essence of collusion is not a mere "agreement" but a "secret" agreement aimed at a fraudulent or illegal purpose (this, of course, is why collusion has such a negative connotation, but agreement doesn't). Since you were heads up at the end of a MTT, there is no one left to defraud or cheat! Granted, had you dumped chips or soft-played each other, or anyone else, while there was even one person remaining in addition to yourselves, you'd be guilty of colluding to defraud that person(s). You plainly did not collude. It seems extremely harsh on Full Tilt's part to punish you for doing something that, at best, is inadequately addressed in its rules, and at worst, is implicitly allowed in their rules. That being said, I hope they don't ban me now!! Hopefully there's no provision in their rules prohibiting seditious speech against the company (though it might not matter since they can punish you for anything regardless of the rules).

[mulhs82 2]

Wouldn't there be some sort of record of the conversation in the chat box where you two agreed to chop the prize money? I would think that alone would be enough evidence to prove that this was collusion. Of course they would probably be the only people to have that record.

[VicRattlehead 0]

Great post and reply Angelo - thanks. Quote - "Just based on the definition of collusion, it seems pretty evident that you didn't "collude" with your friend. The essence of collusion is not a mere "agreement" but a "secret" agreement aimed at a fraudulent or illegal purpose (this, of course, is why collusion has such a negative connotation, but agreement doesn't). Since you were heads up at the end of a MTT, there is no one left to defraud or cheat!"That's pretty much what it all boils down to really. I just want to mention one more thing - the other player was not a friend or even an aquantance of mine. This was the very first time we had ever played with each other. He was brand new to the site, that was the only reason he dumped his chips to me. On FTP, new players can not make money transfers until they have been a user for (I think) at least 90 days. So, since I was the only one of the two of us that was able to transfer money at the time, he dumped to me and I made the transfer to him. Otherwise, we could have played it out to conclusion with the winner making the appropriate transfer to the 2nd place finisher.Again, thanks for your reply - it was a good read. Best of luck with the exams. :-)

[Boilermakers 0]

Many of their policies are stupid. In a tournament where everyone at the final table wins the same satellite chip, they still play out the final table.Huh?

[VicRattlehead 0]

Wouldn't there be some sort of record of the conversation in the chat box where you two agreed to chop the prize money? I would think that alone would be enough evidence to prove that this was collusion. Of course they would probably be the only people to have that record.

Yes, they have the chat transcript where we agreed to chop it 50 / 50, talked about the money transfer, chip dump, blah, blah, blah - hence my "expulsion for collusion".Do you know the definition of collusion mulhs82? Doesn't sound like it. Please take a minute to re-read Angelo's post above.

[mulhs82 2]

I forgot the "not." Guess I have to proof read a bit better. Sorry.