what is it with the pros?

[lordchadwick 0]

Why do the pros like Josh A. and Phil H. and Mike M. complain all the time about how lowly amateurs come into pots with J-4 and then call them to the river when they get a set of 4s. When the pro in question came in with a marginal 10-4 and loses?It is so funny how pros think they are the only ones who can play marginal hands and get away with it. They are so full of themselves sometimes that they think every non-pro should just lay down and allow the pros to walk all over them and with marginal hands no less.I know that DN is not like this and there are many pros who don't talk that way, but more seem to be acting like this.Any comments about this.

[PimpRock 0]

I think you will find that in the hand in question Josh was in the Blinds. Besides which, there is nothing wrong with playing non optimal hands providing you got the skills to do it right... DN does it all the time and has documented his reasons for it.

[Schneider 0]

You should probably get the facts straight.Josh was in the blinds.That would be a little frustrating, dont you think?Especially when you've been having a rough week.J4 is worse than marginal. Atleast raise with it or something.I can honestly say i've never limped in with J4.

[elkang 0]

Any comments about this.

Yes, after the non-pro successfully plays those hands and makes it at the major professional levels than they can play these "marginal hands" as you say without being abused. But, by that time they are a pro.Also, a set implied a pocket pair. You are talking about trips. You have already disqualified yourself from making good judgements. You are no expert and are not in touch with the game because you are missing so much information.I came to this realization clearly last night as I watched a dance performance. When most people see it they see a dance perfomance and maybe can say they did a jump or kick here.I look at it and I see all ten dancers. I see every mistake made - every disconnect, every failed extension, everyone who is off balance or off time. I can name every move they are doing. I can recall the sequence of moves and can even predict what is a likely future figure based on the song. I can name the people who originated some of those moves. I've danced with people who originated some of the moves.I hope to be able to do that one day with poker.Meanwhile, feel free to be an armchair quarterback, but better try it on another forum or listen and learn. And we all have stuff to learn. I'm a crappy low level player who knows jack squat but it's better than you.

[elkang 0]

incidentally, I'm not being venomnous or anything. Just stating the matter as clearly as I can given the context and space. And my time requirements.if anyone is offended by my posts I'm sorry, but then I think you don't like to face reality or have this crazy idea that life should involve no offense ever.

[Royal27 0]

incidentally, I'm not being venomnous or anything. Just stating the matter as clearly as I can given the context and space. And my time requirements.if anyone is offended by my posts I'm sorry, but then I think you don't like to face reality or have this crazy idea that life should involve no offense ever.

What he said.

[DCSports92GSR 0]

incidentally, I'm not being venomnous or anything. Just stating the matter as clearly as I can given the context and space. And my time requirements.if anyone is offended by my posts I'm sorry, but then I think you don't like to face reality or have this crazy idea that life should involve no offense ever.

At a side game I play my buddy always complains how I will call a 2.5xBB raise from teh BB with "crap" like q-9 suited, a-3 o/s, ehen though hes shown his fair ammount's of raises from the button with 7-2 :lol:People just get mad when they actually HAVE a hand for once, and you hit yours.

[adidas freak 0]

Any comments about this.

Yes, after the non-pro successfully plays those hands and makes it at the major professional levels than they can play these "marginal hands" as you say without being abused. But, by that time they are a pro.Also, a set implied a pocket pair. You are talking about trips. You have already disqualified yourself from making good judgements. You are no expert and are not in touch with the game because you are missing so much information.I came to this realization clearly last night as I watched a dance performance. When most people see it they see a dance perfomance and maybe can say they did a jump or kick here.I look at it and I see all ten dancers. I see every mistake made - every disconnect, every failed extension, everyone who is off balance or off time. I can name every move they are doing. I can recall the sequence of moves and can even predict what is a likely future figure based on the song. I can name the people who originated some of those moves. I've danced with people who originated some of the moves.I hope to be able to do that one day with poker.Meanwhile, feel free to be an armchair quarterback, but better try it on another forum or listen and learn. And we all have stuff to learn. I'm a crappy low level player who knows jack squat but it's better than you.

my thoughts exactly...well said!

[The Ace of Jades 0]

Why do the pros like Josh A. and Phil H. and Mike M. complain all the time about how lowly amateurs come into pots with J-4 and then call them to the river when they get a set of 4s. When the pro in question came in with a marginal 10-4 and loses?It is so funny how pros think they are the only ones who can play marginal hands and get away with it. They are so full of themselves sometimes that they think every non-pro should just lay down and allow the pros to walk all over them and with marginal hands no less.I know that DN is not like this and there are many pros who don't talk that way, but more seem to be acting like this.Any comments about this.

Why do posters get so offended and jump down people's throats when they misuse a simple term when they themselves are rambling on about dancing?It is so funny how some posters get offended by what could easily be a simple slip of the tongue, so to speak. Or maybe the OP didn't know the difference and a simple, by the way a set is three of kind with a pocket pair, trips were the term you were lookin for.

[SapphireTiger 0]

technically, a set could be 4 of a kind also, no?

[LAPoker 0]

It is so funny how pros think they are the only ones who can play marginal hands

When did J4 become a marginal hand?

[nbliss16 0]

It is so funny how pros think they are the only ones who can play marginal hands

When did J4 become a marginal hand?

Yet another famous quote from our 2005 main event champion...LAPoker.His party is going to be at the Bellagio.

[jamesfinch 0]

elkang, you're a sad man for knowing that much about dancing AND being proud enough of it to brag about it.Congratulations elkang you have over 900 posts and you know the difference between a set and trips, but the OP had a serious question.The simple fact is that, as our own Harry Demetriou once said, in reality all pros are the same level. The media wants to portray certain guys to be better actual players and all of the rest but in terms of skill they are all equal. They all know the odds, they all know when to value bet etc etc. The only thing that is really different between them is their mental strength and their self-belief (not to mention bankroll).This may actually be the reason that certain pros behave the way they do. It is all about ego. They can make the play, because in their mind they are the best and they can justify it to themselves. They only lose when someone gets lucky, but they don't mention anything when they get lucky.As Phil Hellmuth once said:"If luck wasn't involved, I'd win every time"

[21gambit 0]

Any comments about this.

Yes, after the non-pro successfully plays those hands and makes it at the major professional levels than they can play these "marginal hands" as you say without being abused. But, by that time they are a pro.Also, a set implied a pocket pair. You are talking about trips. You have already disqualified yourself from making good judgements. You are no expert and are not in touch with the game because you are missing so much information.

STFU. Im so sick of hearing people talk down to others because they refer to trips as a set. It doesnt matter. Knowing the terminology is no proof or lack there of of poker talent, just shut the hell up about it. Many pros refer to trips as a set and so on, as a matter of fact doyle bruson called trips a set in super systems, would you like to rant and tell him that he cant make good judgements?

[AceDeuce7 0]

Also, most of the times the Iveys, Hanses, and Negranues are opening pots with these "trash hands" , trying to make a move or setting up a move. I think the pros become frustrated because they woul never actually make a cold call with these hands. In the J4 scenario, even if that guy gets a great flop like 844; real marginal hands like A4s, K4s. have that guy hammered.

[elkang 0]

Prove my read on the OP wrong.I said he was not an expert. I gave the example of the use of the term set. But, there are plenty of other reasons - others gave them. He basically said he knows better than pros. I said no he doesn't and gave (I thought) a useful analogy of why he was missing the point - he wasn't missing so much information and making a decision based on little substance. I claim that many of you are likewise in your own world and not in reality. Meanwhile, again I'm sorry some of you are all offended and if you had read my original posts then you would know what that means.And yes, I am a dance geek. If this makes you feel better than me, fine. I enjoy this scene and it has been very good to me. It makes me happy and people should do what works for them. I wish you the same chance to be passionate about something and be given the chance to do it.Personally, I'm not really offended. I have close friends who act like this and that's just the way people are. You're random strangers who I don't know saying crap about me. Big deal. And this argument can go on forever without point or utility.yeah, I might be the big idiot here and no matter what I post some people will think I am. But, I'd bet money I wasn't. Sadly, it would be hard for me to claim the winnings.

[faisal 0]

If you read Arieh's rant on the J4, he basically answers the question himself by saying "why would you limp in with a marginal hand in late position?"....ummm because ure in late position.

[elkang 0]

I swear a few more months of this and I will post the "stupid players who you should search out on the internet and play with" list I've always been joking about.ah... I probably won't have time. The list is too long. I'll stick with the very "good players" list which is very short and doesn't grow very quickly. Some of you may remember, that this is the one where I did not put my name on.meanwhile, I thought I should add the quote from Josh's blog and you can make your own judgements:

To sum up the last couple of days, I am 0 for 3 with AA and KK’s. Today’s event was super funny. I showed up my customary 30-40 minutes late ( I like to do this in limit events because with my style of play, the first level can be a million times worse than it can be good). After about one round of folding I was in the big blind with the ole 10-4. One person limped and I checked, the flop came A44, I was like ‘SWEET, I’m gonna get back to the starting amount after this hand’. I check and the limper checked, the turn came a 6 and I checked again thinking there was no way I can lose this pot. He bet and I raised him, he quickly called with somewhat of a confident look. The river came an 8 and the final board was A4468, I led out and he raised me…. I sat there in amazement thinking ‘No way, there is no way that he has 5-7’… I made a crying call and he shows me J4 offsuit…. SAY HUH??????... That’s right, some guy ponied up 2k to play this tournament and he just limped in in late position with the ole J4… I can understand making some triple advance play like this in the later stages of a tournament, but damn man, this is the first level!!! A few minutes later the same guy wouldn’t quit raising me with his 3 outer and I was pretty much dead after he hit it….

*edited to add bold italics .

[Pupsta 0]

If you read Arieh's rant on the J4, he basically answers the question himself by saying "why would you limp in with a marginal hand in late position?"....ummm because ure in late position.

do you play online anywhere? if so, what site/what's your sn, because i'd like some free $

[PimpRock 0]

Yeah come on Faisal... you really didnt bring much to the table with that comment. It amazes me no end how people question the pro's and back it up with absolutely NO substance other than an incredibly basic grasp of what is essentially a foreign concept (to them) which they have read in a book / magazine / forum or heard at a table. Hows about understanding WHY position is important and HOW to use it rather than taking someones word for it?

[lordchadwick 0]

Prove my read on the OP wrong.I said he was not an expert. I gave the example of the use of the term set. But, there are plenty of other reasons - others gave them. He basically said he knows better than pros.

Never did I say I know better than the pros or even imply that I know better than the pros. I simply made an observation and asked for comments. Some people on this board are so FLAME HAPPY it is sick. :cry:

[cougfan 0]

I have some sympathy for them, If I were paying thousands of dollars to play in tourneys and some idiots who basically came there to give money away limped with J4 and got lucky against me I wouldn't be happy either. I wouldn't wine about, but it is frustrating watching some idiot play so bad that it is funny, and some how take your chips. then the next hand he tries it, he gives the other pro at the table a bunch of chips. It is just frustrating, despite being part of the game.And for those thinking its okay to limp with trash hands for anybody are flat wrong. trying to outplay better players is a bad strategy. I do agree that pros complaining is no way to handle it, but with that kind of money and a bracelet on the line things get intense and characters will be revealed.

[faisal 0]

If you read Arieh's rant on the J4, he basically answers the question himself by saying "why would you limp in with a marginal hand in late position?"....ummm because ure in late position.

do you play online anywhere? if so, what site/what's your sn, because i'd like some free $

Are you retarded? Honestly, Read any poker book, and they will tell you, that the later the position, the more you can loosen up starting hand selection . Im not condoning playing J4, Im just saying, most poker theorists believe that you can play crap in LP. Not my opinion, but the ones of seasoned veterans of the game,

[Batch 0]

You should probably get the facts straight.Josh was in the blinds.That would be a little frustrating, dont you think?Especially when you've been having a rough week.J4 is worse than marginal.  Atleast raise with it or something.I can honestly say i've never limped in with J4.

yeah but they never talk about the pots they are winning when guys are coming in with the j 4s.Only the losses.Take your beats like a pro and stop complaining.

[elkang 0]

Prove my read on the OP wrong.I said he was not an expert. I gave the example of the use of the term set. But, there are plenty of other reasons - others gave them. He basically said he knows better than pros.

Never did I say I know better than the pros or even imply that I know better than the pros. I simply made an observation and asked for comments. Some people on this board are so FLAME HAPPY it is sick. :cry:

:roll: I'm sorry I can't help it. I'm not trying to be mean, but its just so funny.

It is so funny how pros think they are the only ones who can play marginal hands and get away with it. They are so full of themselves sometimes that they think every non-pro should just lay down and allow the pros to walk all over them and with marginal hands no less.

I guess there is some "triple advance play" writing going on here!