plo8 hand

[Absolute 0]

so when will you stop following me in every post i put something in? When you stop making posts with my fucking name them, about me, I'll be a little more likely not to respond. Sorry I chase you around threads where you post specifically about ME. Crazy me.

looks like someone is getting angry.i dont make posts about you, like this one for instanceor the AK handor the 88 handin none of them was my initial response to you.but you dont have to make any sense, youve been acting like sean hannity all day long

[Smasharoo 0]

looks like someone is getting angry. Huh?I think you need to read mor carefully.I, and most people I imagine, are just laughing our asses off at you.What would I be angry at?Glad you're gonna stop though, that lasted almost 5 minutes.I mean, I knew what your word was worth before, but you've certainly clarified any doubt I might have had towards you having any credibility whatsoever.You're obsessed with me and jealous, for whatever reason.It makes me laugh and sometimes it makes me pity you.that's really about it though.

[Absolute 0]

looks like someone is getting angry. Huh?I think you need to read mor carefully.I, and most people I imagine, are just laughing our asses off at you.What would I be angry at?Glad you're gonna stop though, that lasted almost 5 minutes.I mean, I knew what your word was worth before, but you've certainly clarified any doubt I might have had towards you having any credibility whatsoever.You're obsessed with me and jealous, for whatever reason.It makes me laugh and sometimes it makes me pity you.that's really about it though.

you are a psycho.and delusional.you really believe everyone is refreshing this thread every ten seconds to watch you "lay the smack down" on me.i doubt anyone cares.you really think im obsessed and jealous with you. thats the most juvenile and easy.you really are quite the "american"if anyone is 'obsessed' it is you.ive never met anyone who constantly accuses people of trying to be more like them, to want them, to envy them, quite like you do.you really do act like a southern baptist republican.and thats what is sad.believe what you want.when will your posters be for sale?when will your book be out?i really just want........... to be the wolverine.you are a nutcase man.

[econ_tim 0]

So I should give free cards?You're drawing, you want free cards.

How am I drawing? My hand can't improve (unless I hit runner runner). If you mean I'm drawing to avoid spades and the board pairing, that is an unusual way to put it.

[Smasharoo 0]

you really think im obsessed and jealous with you. thats the most juvenile and easy. Most juvinile and easy what?does spittle fly from your mouth as you type this with the pencil headband, or does the drool cup catch most of it?Honestly, it's mainly pity at this point.since you can't seem to manage it, I'll just stop responding to your lunatic diatribes.No one likes seeing a grown man beat up a cripple. It's just become embarassing for both of us at this point.I'm sorry you're so obsessed with me and I really genuienely do pity you and hope you can get past it someday.Good luck.

[RISEorFall 0]

Even though you have the current nuts, your hand is still a drawing hand. You are drawing to blanks on the turn and river.

That's where he was coming from. He meant that you're drawing to no spades and no pair on the board. Might be unusual, but it's true.

[Smasharoo 0]

How am I drawing? My hand can't improve (unless I hit runner runner). If you mean I'm drawing to avoid spades and the board pairing, that is an unusual way to put it.I mean there are less cards in the deck that help you than hurt you.It' irrelevnt that you have the best hand at the moment. Your chances of winning this hand outright are mighty slim.Giving free cards here is fine. You want free cards. When you see a blank on the turn that doesn't have paint or the suit to make a flush on it and doesn't pair the board, then start thinking you might, might be ahead.

[Absolute 0]

you really think im obsessed and jealous with you. thats the most juvenile and easy. Most juvinile and easy what?does spittle fly from your mouth as you type this with the pencil headband, or does the drool cup catch most of it?Honestly, it's mainly pity at this point.since you can't seem to manage it, I'll just stop responding to your lunatic diatribes.No one likes seeing a grown man beat up a cripple. It's just become embarassing for both of us at this point.I'm sorry you're so obsessed with me and I really genuienely do pity you and hope you can get past it someday.Good luck.

you make me blush!

[cdddc75 0]

So I should give free cards?You're drawing, you want free cards.

How am I drawing? My hand can't improve (unless I hit runner runner). If you mean I'm drawing to avoid spades and the board pairing, that is an unusual way to put it.

Omaha is a drawing game. Sometimes you're drawing to blanks when you have the nuts. Non-spade twos through nines are good cards on the turn (aces and tens increase the likelihood of a chop). That is 24/45 cards in the deck. If you dodge a club on the turn, you have 23/44 cards to preserve the three card Broadway on the river. If a club hits the turn, only 16/44 cards on the river preserve your hand. Splitting the difference, the math goes like this:(24/45) * (19.5/44) = 23.6% odds of AT being the only nut cards held by a player at the end of the hand. You're only a 60-40 favorite over a donk holding A468 (double black suited). You're a 60-40 dog to a set plus flush draw.Have fun plugging away your hand against some random hands here:http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1018214Sometimes you slowplay the nuts in Omaha because the draws against you are stronger than your own hand.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Okay...I ran into a similar situation a couple of days ago in a PLO8 game...and what I seem to be getting is that I probably misplayed it.The game in question was PLO8 .50/1 (max buy-in $100).I was sitting on ~$200 and attempting to play patiently. When I sat down at the table, there was a guy with $1,200. Over a couple hours, he had dropped to $150 and then had built it back up to $1,200. He was playing every single hand and jamming with anything on the flop through the river. A lot of times, he'd jam with two pair (not even top two), be up against the nut high and runner-runner some dumb low with his 67. Basically, he could afford to play every pot, so he was doing that. He usually didn't raise too much pre-flop. (Side question: I read that raising pre-flop is rarely correct in the game. Is this true?)I don't remember the exact details of the hand, but the gist of it...I held AJJ9. (There might've been a smallish raise pre-flop.) The flop came down QT8 rainbow. There were a number of checks and maniac jammed the pot ahead of me. Sitting on the nuts (with a higher straight redraw) and hoping to drive out everyone else and isolate myself, I re-raised the pot. Everyone folded except for the maniac who called. The Q popped out on the turn and the maniac bet the pot (which would set me all-in for my last $100). Seriously annoyed, I debated for a while and laid it down. The maniac showed Q8 for the full house. It was obviously the correct laydown, but what you guys are saying is that I should've just called his bet on the flop? Wouldn't that let too many of my other opponents in?On a side note, PLO8 is pretty new to the site that I play on. For a while, the money was really really easy to come by. Lately though, the tables have been really difficult to play. I think my strategy is poor. I can sit for a really long time and not really lose money (having fairly tight starting hand requirements), but every now and then, a huge pot will start developing and the game starts to feels out of control. Everyone just seems to throw their money in the middle and hope for the best. Should I just be avoiding getting tangled up in these messes?

[cdddc75 0]

Okay...I ran into a similar situation a couple of days ago in a PLO8 game...and what I seem to be getting is that I probably misplayed it.The game in question was PLO8 .50/1 (max buy-in $100).I was sitting on ~$200 and attempting to play patiently. When I sat down at the table, there was a guy with $1,200. Over a couple hours, he had dropped to $150 and then had built it back up to $1,200. He was playing every single hand and jamming with anything on the flop through the river. A lot of times, he'd jam with two pair (not even top two), be up against the nut high and runner-runner some dumb low with his 67. Basically, he could afford to play every pot, so he was doing that. He usually didn't raise too much pre-flop. (Side question: I read that raising pre-flop is rarely correct in the game. Is this true?)I don't remember the exact details of the hand, but the gist of it...I held AJJ9. (There might've been a smallish raise pre-flop.) The flop came down QT8 rainbow. There were a number of checks and maniac jammed the pot ahead of me. Sitting on the nuts (with a higher straight redraw) and hoping to drive out everyone else and isolate myself, I re-raised the pot. Everyone folded except for the maniac who called. The Q popped out on the turn and the maniac bet the pot (which would set me all-in for my last $100). Seriously annoyed, I debated for a while and laid it down. The maniac showed Q8 for the full house. It was obviously the correct laydown, but what you guys are saying is that I should've just called his bet on the flop? Wouldn't that let too many of my other opponents in?On a side note, PLO8 is pretty new to the site that I play on. For a while, the money was really really easy to come by. Lately though, the tables have been really difficult to play. I think my strategy is poor. I can sit for a really long time and not really lose money (having fairly tight starting hand requirements), but every now and then, a huge pot will start developing and the game starts to feels out of control. Everyone just seems to throw their money in the middle and hope for the best. Should I just be avoiding getting tangled up in these messes?

The simple answer is that flopped straights are almost always a vulnerable hand in Omaha. Against a maniac like that, you need more than a straight (with Broadway redraw) to jam away at the pot. When a huge pot develops, you should fully expect someone to have the current nuts as well as nut redraws. Straights with no boat/flush redraws are drawing hands. You're drawing for two blanks so your hand can hold up.

[Smasharoo 0]

One of the most important concepts in Omaha is freerolling.That is, you have the current nuts and a redraw to better hand against the current nuts with no redraw. It's where much of the money is made. It's even more prevelent in PLO8 with a wheel against a wheel with a nut flush draw or whatever.Try to be the one freeroling, not the one being rolled.

[TheIceman05 0]

Should I just be avoiding getting tangled up in these messes?

You were in great shape on the hand you described, for the following reasons:1) You had the nuts2) You had a redraw to a higher straight3) The board was rainbowed (which means nobody was freerolling to the flush against you)See, in THIS situation, you're so much more likely to be ahead with no chance of being outdrawn than vice versa. You had a solid redraw. He got lucky and made a 4 outer against you, but you want to ram and jam this pot, because you're playing for free when he's got the nut straight but no draw to your better straight.See the differecne??Ice

[cdddc75 0]

Should I just be avoiding getting tangled up in these messes?

You were in great shape on the hand you described, for the following reasons:1) You had the nuts2) You had a redraw to a higher straight3) The board was rainbowed (which means nobody was freerolling to the flush against you)See, in THIS situation, you're so much more likely to be ahead with no chance of being outdrawn than vice versa. You had a solid redraw. He got lucky and made a 4 outer against you, but you want to ram and jam this pot, because you're playing for free when he's got the nut straight but no draw to your better straight.See the differecne??Ice

Does the Broadway redraw really help here? Someone is more likely to be holding AJ than J9 preflop. The rainbow board does help, without question.

[CobaltBlue 662]

So I feel like I'm getting conflicting advice. Push or no?

[cdddc75 0]

So I feel like I'm getting conflicting advice. Push or no?

With someone pushing before I do, I'd just call and see what the turn brings. Flopped straights are still drawing hands, even with rainbow boards.

[TheIceman05 0]

Does the Broadway redraw really help here?  Someone is more likely to be holding AJ than J9 preflop.  The rainbow board does help, without question.

On the board in question (QT8) and our Hero's cards (AJJ9), the broadway redraw totally makes ramming and jamming this pot a pretty easy decision, espectially if we have even a single back-door flush draw (it's more unlikely that we don't). The only card that hurts us is a Jack, making someone an A or K high straight, and in that case we've got 10 outs to a stronger hand, and 3 more outs (3 remaining kings) to a chop. Plus, it's significantly more likely we'll spike our redraw card (4 kings in deck) on the turn than it is we'll find ourselves begging for the board to pair on the river. The situation CobaltBlue describes is very very very different than the one described in the OP. We'd be remiss NOT to ram and jam this flop if we thought we'd get action, whereas the OP had some marginal decisions to make.If I'm wrong, let me know ElectricSpiderCrabGuy... I might be missing something here.Ice

[Smasharoo 0]

With someone pushing before I do, I'd just call and see what the turn brings.I'd fold.I'm willing to wait for less marginal situations.I probably play in tougher in PLO8 games, though, generally, so given the competition it might be worth calling here.

[TheIceman05 0]

With someone pushing before I do, I'd just call and see what the turn brings.I'd fold.I'm willing to wait for less marginal situations.I probably play in tougher in PLO8 games, though, generally, so given the competition it might be worth calling here.

I think he was referring to the situation HE forwarded (about 10 posts above) with the rainbow board and the broadway redraw... Are you referring to the same situation or no? Because if so I'd really be curious as to why... Ice

[cdddc75 0]

With someone pushing before I do, I'd just call and see what the turn brings.I'd fold.I'm willing to wait for less marginal situations.I probably play in tougher in PLO8 games, though, generally, so given the competition it might be worth calling here.

I think he was referring to the situation HE forwarded (about 10 posts above) with the rainbow board and the broadway redraw... Are you referring to the same situation or no? Because if so I'd really be curious as to why... Ice

The OP's situation is an easy fold after a bad bet. The nut straight with rainbow board/Broadway redraw situation...think I'd have to call at 2:1 as long as I was closing (or one away from closing) the action.

[Smasharoo 0]

I think he was referring to the situation HE forwarded (about 10 posts above) with the rainbow board and the broadway redraw...Ah, I thought he meant the OP hand, my mistake.Clearly you call and punish on a favorable rurn with the broadway redraw.

[cdddc75 0]

I think he was referring to the situation HE forwarded (about 10 posts above) with the rainbow board and the broadway redraw...Ah, I thought he meant the OP hand, my mistake.Clearly you call and punish on a favorable rurn with the broadway redraw.

That's what I thought. Once the board pairs, dump against a jam, obviously.Figured as much.

[TheIceman05 0]

The OP's situation is an easy fold after a bad bet.  The nut straight with rainbow board/Broadway redraw situation...think I'd have to call at 2:1 as long as I was closing (or one away from closing) the action.

Why is it even a question? Are we worried that we're against the same nuts with houuuuuuuuuse redraw? Does that happen often enough for us not to punish a set or J9/zero redraws by bringing the hammer? Especially against a player who has shown a propensity to take the worst of it and boom the fuck out of every pot in which he's involved?Ice

[Smasharoo 0]

Does that happen often enough for us not to punish a set or J9/zero redraws by bringing the hammer?It's where most of money in PLO8 comes from.Does that mean the donk here is likely to be freerolling? I have no idea. No reads, etc.

[cdddc75 0]

The OP's situation is an easy fold after a bad bet.  The nut straight with rainbow board/Broadway redraw situation...think I'd have to call at 2:1 as long as I was closing (or one away from closing) the action.

Why is it even a question? Are we worried that we're against the same nuts with houuuuuuuuuse redraw? Does that happen often enough for us not to punish a set or J9/zero redraws by bringing the hammer? Especially against a player who has shown a propensity to take the worst of it and boom the fuck out of every pot in which he's involved?Ice

In this hand, we call on the flop and wait to raise the turn for the same reason as we do in Smash's four nines thread. We get more money out of the maniac when he pots us again with crap on the turn.In this case, we also have the benefit of dropping if the board pairs on the turn instead of losing our stack to a turned boat. He's right (or nearly right) to call our over the top jam on the flop. He's a fool to do so on the turn unimproved, plus we get more chips this way if he does fold.