shaq needed kobe, period

[karr2242 0]

The only hopeless case here is you Diabolical. Your logical is flawed and your Laker bias refuses to let you see the facts. The fact is that Kobe is vastly overrated. Mentioning Shaq and Kobe in the same sentence is embarassing. He never came close to shooting 50% from the field and this with having one of the best players of ALL TIME down low. There are no less than 8-9 players who are better than him now and without Shaq or another superstar by his side, he'll never get anywhere. Keep saying I'm a hopeless case all you want, but I'm still right.

[peppericious 0]

Can I still choose Penny over Flash, Shaq or Kobe?No?Sigh, I guess we're not in 1995 anymore lol.aRgh, Penny scarred me for life.

[mbreon 0]

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Shaq's out!!!!!! And I'm a happy camper. Wade was hurt and couldn't perform at his best,...........and that's why miami did not advance. I predicted this before the playoffs started. And you can check my archives on this site. Bottom line is shaq needs a star guard/foward or he'll never get another ring. Wade is a very good player. And I believe he carried the team just as much as Shaq did. And so did Kobe when he was with the Lakers.

Brilliant.Name the last NBA superstar to win a title without a star player helping him.Take your time.

Umm...how about the Pistons? No superstar players on that team. Great players, no "star" players.....I had the Pistons by 10 last night , so I was close....it's pretty tough being in the middle of Michigan and being the only non-Pistons fan. I have to stay loyal to my Pacers. Hopefully next year can be different.

[Diabolical 0]

Your hopeless and your wrong.But, I have a question. Do you watch the Lakers when they play. If so, for how long. One Year? Three?Sometimes when you don't watch the games, you get the opinion of a news man and he could be sayin "The Lakers won again. Kobe scored 35 points and shot the ball 25 times. Go Kobe!!...........I mean Lakers." Or when they lose some journalist writes: The Lakers lost by 2 points when Kobe heeved up a thirty footer and clanked it off the rim.My point is, if you watch Kobe play every game, you will see that he has "incredible" talent. He has won or tied at least 20-30 games putting up a long three. It's not a low percentage shot for him. When he shoots it, he truly believes it will be good. But the media doesn't talk much about that. You hear them bad mouth him and say he's a ball hog. Not true at all!!! Most of the Lakers didn't even want to shoot the ball. They gave it to him or Shaq. And Shaq would cry if he didn't get it enough through the media. He would fuel the fire about Kobe being a ball hog. But he wouldn't say much on all the numerous times Kobe bailed out the Lakers of some embarrasing losses. Nobody does. People just like to point there finger when he doesn't come through. Watch Kobe play. Watch him for yoursef. He never gives up!! Don't listen to another opinion that is biased cause they hate the guy anyway. I think it's popular to hate Kobe. But your wrong cause you probably don't watch every Laker game. And therefore, your not the best source to get true information on Bryant.

[KidKanuck 0]

Yeah, the Heat losing by a small margin when both Shaq and Wade were injured is totally indicative of Kobe's irreplacability. Everyone ready for the most boring finals in the history of the game? I put the over/under on PPG at 75 for each team. God, I might not even watch.

Kobe is an idiot...and quite possibly a rapist...there I said it.this is going to be boring without doubt....and is exactly why I was cheering for the Heat and the Suns....I am not a fan of Shaq, but as a fan in general he makes for great entertainment like a Barkley...Wade reminds me of the days I would watch the Bulls just to see what Jordan was going to do next...Stoudamire is exceptionally exciting while Duncan is Dull...and Nash makes you want to watch like the days of watching Thomas, Magic, Stockton, or Kidd, and Iverson, etc.....not to suggest that he is as good as these guys but as fun to watch...no question I will not be watching the finals...unfortunate 'cause I was really enjoying the semis.c'est la vie.KK

[SAM_Hard8 50]

I am so tiered of hearing how injured the Heat were and if they were healthy they would have won. That’s such a load of crap. Everybody is injured in the playoffs. The Detroit players were all hobbled too.And BTW, the Pacers were the most injured and short handed team all year in the east and they beat up Miami all year!

[Diabolical 0]

and for those of you who say "Look at the Lakers record this year without Shaq. It's obvious that Kobe Needs Shaq." You guys don't follow basketball. You follow the news. If you were keeping up with the Lakers this season you would see why they didn't make the playoffs. Lets go over it again children1. Chris Mihm has to start at center cause Valde injured his back. He started very strong for about 5 games. But, with no help at center, he wore down fast cause he had to play at 100% intensity all the time!!2. Medvedenko and George are out with injuries for alot longer than expected. These are two guys that belong in the middle. They didn't play much until the end of the season. Thats a big blow (the Lakers still manage to win)3. Karl Malone was suppose to play by December, but decided to retire. Huge blow to the team. Karl Malone plays in the middle and could also back up center position. plus, Malone told valde to come to the Lakers and they were planning for a great season together. 4. So Lamar Odom has to cover at center and the Lakers are learning to play together and have a plausible record despite missing alot of there key big men. 5. Then, Rudy T quits cause of health reasons. BOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!! What the hell? The Lakers now have an interim coach and a whole new way of playing basketball that they all have to learn in the middle of the season.6. Kobe gets injured. Out for a month and the Lakers slide out of the playoff race. 7. Someone gets the bright idea to bring the triangle back. The Lakers start to get blown out of games cause they don't know how to run it properly. All the fast breaks and up-tempo play are gone!!!!!8. Lamar gets injured and is out for the season when the Lakers needed him most during a very tough final 20 games. This is kobe's fault? During all this, Kobe was doing a very good job keeping the young players together. But you didn't see him do that, right?This season can't be used as a measuring stick of Kobe needing Shaq. Kobe never had a true center on the floor with him. Never!!!

[CaneBrain 95]

I am so tiered of hearing how injured the Heat were and if they were healthy they would have won. That’s such a load of crap. Everybody is injured in the playoffs. The Detroit players were all hobbled too.And BTW, the Pacers were the most injured and short handed team all year in the east and they beat up Miami all year!

Indiana won 2 of 3 regular season games against miami this year...i would love to know how this is relevant at all :roll: My take is basically this: of course the injuries had an effect. It was the Heat's two best players by a long shot and wade in particular had a ton of success against detroit in this series. (nor were all the pistons hobbled///only rip was and he was mostly recovered by game 4)However, as a huge heat fan, I am completely unable to use this as an excuse....luck is part of the game just like poker. Besides, the heat had a 6 point lead in the 4th quarter with several chances to put it away. Injuries or no, you have to close at home in that position. Having home court advantage should lessen the injury burden and miami had its chances. Detroit was just a bit more poised and a bit more fundamentally sound at the end....as you would expect of a champion. NBA teams always have to lose before they win the title (see the pistons getting swept in 2002 in the conf. finals or see the pistons denying jordan a title 3 times before he and the bulls figured the bad boys out) I have a feeling this is not the last good pistons v. heat series we will see.Detroit will have to play better to beat san antonio....they did get a break with wade getting hurt...but such is life....good luck pistons and see you next year.

[BetItAll33 0]

As for teams that have won without a 2nd star, how about the 1994 Houston Rockets? Otis Thorpe was the second leading scorer at 14 ppg after Hakeem.Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

[BetItAll33 0]

Your hopeless and your wrong.But, I have a question. Do you watch the Lakers when they play. If so, for how long. One Year? Three?Sometimes when you don't watch the games, you get the opinion of a news man and he could be sayin "The Lakers won again. Kobe scored 35 points and shot the ball 25 times. Go Kobe!!...........I mean Lakers." Or when they lose some journalist writes: The Lakers lost by 2 points when Kobe heeved up a thirty footer and clanked it off the rim.My point is, if you watch Kobe play every game, you will see that he has "incredible" talent. He has won or tied at least 20-30 games putting up a long three. It's not a low percentage shot for him. When he shoots it, he truly believes it will be good. But the media doesn't talk much about that. You hear them bad mouth him and say he's a ball hog. Not true at all!!! Most of the Lakers didn't even want to shoot the ball. They gave it to him or Shaq. And Shaq would cry if he didn't get it enough through the media. He would fuel the fire about Kobe being a ball hog. But he wouldn't say much on all the numerous times Kobe bailed out the Lakers of some embarrasing losses. Nobody does. People just like to point there finger when he doesn't come through. Watch Kobe play. Watch him for yoursef. He never gives up!! Don't listen to another opinion that is biased cause they hate the guy anyway. I think it's popular to hate Kobe. But your wrong cause you probably don't watch every Laker game. And therefore, your not the best source to get true information on Bryant.

34-48, Finished 4th in Pacific Division Kobe Bryant 3pt % = .339for comparison, Fred Hoiberg 3pt. % = .483

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Your hopeless and your wrong.But, I have a question. Do you watch the Lakers when they play. If so, for how long. One Year? Three?Sometimes when you don't watch the games, you get the opinion of a news man and he could be sayin "The Lakers won again. Kobe scored 35 points and shot the ball 25 times. Go Kobe!!...........I mean Lakers." Or when they lose some journalist writes: The Lakers lost by 2 points when Kobe heeved up a thirty footer and clanked it off the rim.My point is, if you watch Kobe play every game, you will see that he has "incredible" talent. He has won or tied at least 20-30 games putting up a long three. It's not a low percentage shot for him. When he shoots it, he truly believes it will be good. But the media doesn't talk much about that. You hear them bad mouth him and say he's a ball hog. Not true at all!!! Most of the Lakers didn't even want to shoot the ball. They gave it to him or Shaq. And Shaq would cry if he didn't get it enough through the media. He would fuel the fire about Kobe being a ball hog. But he wouldn't say much on all the numerous times Kobe bailed out the Lakers of some embarrasing losses. Nobody does. People just like to point there finger when he doesn't come through. Watch Kobe play. Watch him for yoursef. He never gives up!! Don't listen to another opinion that is biased cause they hate the guy anyway. I think it's popular to hate Kobe. But your wrong cause you probably don't watch every Laker game. And therefore, your not the best source to get true information on Bryant.

34-48, Finished 4th in Pacific Division Kobe Bryant 3pt % = .339for comparison, Fred Hoiberg 3pt. % = .483

BetItAll, while I completely disagree with Diabolical, your response further indicates that you are a stats geek who doesn't know basketball beyond the numbers.

[BetItAll33 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

First, I watch all the games.We could get into a semantics debate over what quantifies a superstar, but it's all very subjective. I said that Ben is a great defender and rebounder. What more do you want? If Wallace is a star, Amare is God.Playoff NumbersPPG Amare 29.9 Ben 9.8RPG Amare 10.7 Ben 11.7Blocks Amare 2.0 Ben 2.1FG% Amare .539 Ben .448Is it ridiculous to compare this "lanky big man" to Ben?

[BetItAll33 0]

Your hopeless and your wrong.But, I have a question. Do you watch the Lakers when they play. If so, for how long. One Year? Three?Sometimes when you don't watch the games, you get the opinion of a news man and he could be sayin "The Lakers won again. Kobe scored 35 points and shot the ball 25 times. Go Kobe!!...........I mean Lakers." Or when they lose some journalist writes: The Lakers lost by 2 points when Kobe heeved up a thirty footer and clanked it off the rim.My point is, if you watch Kobe play every game, you will see that he has "incredible" talent. He has won or tied at least 20-30 games putting up a long three. It's not a low percentage shot for him. When he shoots it, he truly believes it will be good. But the media doesn't talk much about that. You hear them bad mouth him and say he's a ball hog. Not true at all!!! Most of the Lakers didn't even want to shoot the ball. They gave it to him or Shaq. And Shaq would cry if he didn't get it enough through the media. He would fuel the fire about Kobe being a ball hog. But he wouldn't say much on all the numerous times Kobe bailed out the Lakers of some embarrasing losses. Nobody does. People just like to point there finger when he doesn't come through. Watch Kobe play. Watch him for yoursef. He never gives up!! Don't listen to another opinion that is biased cause they hate the guy anyway. I think it's popular to hate Kobe. But your wrong cause you probably don't watch every Laker game. And therefore, your not the best source to get true information on Bryant.

34-48, Finished 4th in Pacific Division Kobe Bryant 3pt % = .339for comparison, Fred Hoiberg 3pt. % = .483

BetItAll, while I completely disagree with Diabolical, your response further indicates that you are a stats geek who doesn't know basketball beyond the numbers.

Fatman, I may be a stats geek, but I've been playing and watching basketball my whole life. Many things in basketball are hard to quantify, but stats can certainly help. The poster said "It is not a low percentage shot for him". Well, they record this sort of thing and the numbers don't lie. It IS a low percentage shot for him. Sure he makes a lot of acrobatic circus shots and improbable 3 pointers, but at the end of the day, he shoots 34% from back there. How can you argue with that?

[BuzzWorthy 0]

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Shaq's out!!!!!! And I'm a happy camper. Wade was hurt and couldn't perform at his best,...........and that's why miami did not advance. I predicted this before the playoffs started. And you can check my archives on this site. Bottom line is shaq needs a star guard/foward or he'll never get another ring. Wade is a very good player. And I believe he carried the team just as much as Shaq did. And so did Kobe when he was with the Lakers.

Brilliant.Name the last NBA superstar to win a title without a star player helping him.Take your time.

Hakeem Olajuwon?

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

First, I watch all the games.We could get into a semantics debate over what quantifies a superstar, but it's all very subjective. I said that Ben is a great defender and rebounder. What more do you want? If Wallace is a star, Amare is God.Playoff NumbersPPG Amare 29.9 Ben 9.8RPG Amare 10.7 Ben 11.7Blocks Amare 2.0 Ben 2.1FG% Amare .539 Ben .448Is it ridiculous to compare this "lanky big man" to Ben?

Stop posting all these numerical comparisons. They weaken your arguments. PJ Brown is not Amare Stoudemire so I don't know where that came from. Comparing Amare's PPG to Wallace's is useless. Amare is an offensive machine who leads his team in FGA and ha all but perfected his short-range jumper. He will be among the elite NBA players. Ben Wallace is the most dominant force on the defensive side of the court. What does any of this have to do with you insulting Wallace by mentioning PJ Brown in the same breath?

[Gooder 0]

I guarantee you had this thing happened and it was Jordan instead of Kobe in the shoes of Kobe, that Jordan would have at least taken the Lakers to the playoffs. I mean you have to be a moron to have both Phil Jackon (one of the best coaches ever) and Shaq (one of the best big men in the game ever) forced out of L.A! True is wasn't all Kobe, but when you can't have chemistry with your teammates and coach you are bound to lose. Yes he did win three championships with them, but that was when he was hungry and ready to learn his spot on the team, but after winning and thinking that he is "somebody special" he helps his team to not even make the playoffs. Yeah Kobe is a real winner!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

Author Message areradPoker Forum Nut-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joined: 17 Dec 2004Posts: 53Location: Los Angeles Mon, Jun 6th, 2005 9:44 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just can't believe all this arguement about dumbazz NBA loserball........Can't you guys find a live poker game to get into.....!!-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You have something against black people? Racist

[alf13 0]

I live here in Miami...and this city is depressed.No doubt if the WHOLE Miami Heat starting five weren't injured that the HEAT beats the Pistons in this series....

[BetItAll33 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

First, I watch all the games.We could get into a semantics debate over what quantifies a superstar, but it's all very subjective. I said that Ben is a great defender and rebounder. What more do you want? If Wallace is a star, Amare is God.Playoff NumbersPPG Amare 29.9 Ben 9.8RPG Amare 10.7 Ben 11.7Blocks Amare 2.0 Ben 2.1FG% Amare .539 Ben .448Is it ridiculous to compare this "lanky big man" to Ben?

Stop posting all these numerical comparisons. They weaken your arguments. PJ Brown is not Amare Stoudemire so I don't know where that came from. Comparing Amare's PPG to Wallace's is useless. Amare is an offensive machine who leads his team in FGA and ha all but perfected his short-range jumper. He will be among the elite NBA players. Ben Wallace is the most dominant force on the defensive side of the court. What does any of this have to do with you insulting Wallace by mentioning PJ Brown in the same breath?

Here's the relevance. I said that Ben is a great rebounder and a great defender, but I don't think he's a superstar. As an example, I said the P.J. Brown put up similar numbers, yet nobody would consider him a superstar. As a counter example, I showed you Amare's numbers, which show that he scores 3 times more points while shooting a higher percentage and rebounding and blocking shots equally well.Now THERE is a superstar. He's multi-dimensional. As an earlier poster stated, Wallace is no more a superstar than Bruce Bowen. Both are great roleplayers though.

[Solodell 0]

Lebron needs time to develop. I mean, Gooden is not much of anything and he averaged close to a double double because he played w/ Lebron. Even w/o Shaq Miami would be better, becuase the supporting cast is better. Dwyane Wade is a superstar, and they are a playoff team w/ or w/o Shaq. I think the Spurs win, they are a complete team. I don't think Detroit has enough inside scoring to win against a great defense like the Spurs. Unless Duncan has a bad leg and Ginobili gets hurt like Wade, Detroit is going down.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player. He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar. P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

First, I watch all the games.We could get into a semantics debate over what quantifies a superstar, but it's all very subjective. I said that Ben is a great defender and rebounder. What more do you want? If Wallace is a star, Amare is God.Playoff NumbersPPG Amare 29.9 Ben 9.8RPG Amare 10.7 Ben 11.7Blocks Amare 2.0 Ben 2.1FG% Amare .539 Ben .448Is it ridiculous to compare this "lanky big man" to Ben?

Stop posting all these numerical comparisons. They weaken your arguments. PJ Brown is not Amare Stoudemire so I don't know where that came from. Comparing Amare's PPG to Wallace's is useless. Amare is an offensive machine who leads his team in FGA and ha all but perfected his short-range jumper. He will be among the elite NBA players. Ben Wallace is the most dominant force on the defensive side of the court. What does any of this have to do with you insulting Wallace by mentioning PJ Brown in the same breath?

Here's the relevance. I said that Ben is a great rebounder and a great defender, but I don't think he's a superstar. As an example, I said the P.J. Brown put up similar numbers, yet nobody would consider him a superstar. As a counter example, I showed you Amare's numbers, which show that he scores 3 times more points while shooting a higher percentage and rebounding and blocking shots equally well.Now THERE is a superstar. He's multi-dimensional. As an earlier poster stated, Wallace is no more a superstar than Bruce Bowen. Both are great roleplayers though.

My point is that I don't NEED you to show me the numbers. I follow the NBA closely. Everyone has their definition of a superstar. For me, the label most reflects marketability, but in any case, I agree that Amare is or will be a superstar by any definition. I never said Ben Wallace was a superstar. But I think you severely understate his ability by calling him a "role-player" or a "good rebounder/defender". He is to defense what Iverson is to offense. And because you are so stuck on the numbers, PJ Brown did not put up similar numbers to Wallace. Maybe PPG but neither of them are offensive factors. 13 RPG is far superior to 9 and PJ couldn't block a shot to save his life. Give it up, it's a bad comparison.

[BetItAll33 0]

Also, Ben Wallace is a role player.  He's a great rebounder and defender, but he's no superstar.  P.J Brown put up similar numbers last year.

While I started responding to this thread in praise of Shaq and his ability singlehandedly take any team further than any other NBA player, this comment is retarded.I have much respect for the defending champs and for the defensive machine that is Ben Wallace. There are a lot of lanky big men that can grab 10 boards/game (i.e., PJ Brown), but to compare them to Big Ben is ridiculous. I don't know or care if he is a "superstar", but Ben is the best defensive player in the world and a big reason the Pistons are in the finals two years in a row.Stop looking at numbers and watch the damn game.

First, I watch all the games.We could get into a semantics debate over what quantifies a superstar, but it's all very subjective. I said that Ben is a great defender and rebounder. What more do you want? If Wallace is a star, Amare is God.Playoff NumbersPPG Amare 29.9 Ben 9.8RPG Amare 10.7 Ben 11.7Blocks Amare 2.0 Ben 2.1FG% Amare .539 Ben .448Is it ridiculous to compare this "lanky big man" to Ben?

Stop posting all these numerical comparisons. They weaken your arguments. PJ Brown is not Amare Stoudemire so I don't know where that came from. Comparing Amare's PPG to Wallace's is useless. Amare is an offensive machine who leads his team in FGA and ha all but perfected his short-range jumper. He will be among the elite NBA players. Ben Wallace is the most dominant force on the defensive side of the court. What does any of this have to do with you insulting Wallace by mentioning PJ Brown in the same breath?

Here's the relevance. I said that Ben is a great rebounder and a great defender, but I don't think he's a superstar. As an example, I said the P.J. Brown put up similar numbers, yet nobody would consider him a superstar. As a counter example, I showed you Amare's numbers, which show that he scores 3 times more points while shooting a higher percentage and rebounding and blocking shots equally well.Now THERE is a superstar. He's multi-dimensional. As an earlier poster stated, Wallace is no more a superstar than Bruce Bowen. Both are great roleplayers though.

My point is that I don't NEED you to show me the numbers. I follow the NBA closely. Everyone has their definition of a superstar. For me, the label most reflects marketability, but in any case, I agree that Amare is or will be a superstar by any definition. I never said Ben Wallace was a superstar. But I think you severely understate his ability by calling him a "role-player" or a "good rebounder/defender". He is to defense what Iverson is to offense. And because you are so stuck on the numbers, PJ Brown did not put up similar numbers to Wallace. Maybe PPG but neither of them are offensive factors. 13 RPG is far superior to 9 and PJ couldn't block a shot to save his life. Give it up, it's a bad comparison.

My only contention was that Ben Wallace is not a superstar. Beyond that, I'm not even sure what we were discussing. I said right away that he's a great rebounder and defender, but in the end, he's still a roleplayer. I think you're probably right that the term superstar is mostly a gauge of marketability. Andrei Kirilenko is clearly a better shot blocker and scorer than Ben Wallace, but you probably won't hear people throwing out the word "superstar" when talking about him.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

My only contention was that Ben Wallace is not a superstar. Beyond that' date=' I'm not even sure what we were discussing. I said right away that he's a great rebounder and defender' date=' but in the end' date=' he's still a roleplayer. I think you're probably right that the term superstar is mostly a gauge of marketability. Andrei Kirilenko is clearly a better shot blocker and scorer than Ben Wallace, but you probably won't hear people throwing out the word "superstar" when talking about him.[/quote''']Cool. Enough arguing! I love AK47. I hope he is the same player after his surgical recovery.

[MDBLakers 0]

I'm a die hard Lakers fan as you can see by my handle. I wouldn't of mind if Miami made it to the Finals because I'm a Shaq fan too. The Lakers should of never traded him. Huge mistake!Kobe needs Shaq and Shaq needs Kobe. I can very well see the Heat going to the Finals next year because Wade is almost as good as Kobe and it's only his 2nd year in the league. I think what Kobe has over Wade is the playoff experience and the will to take over a game in the 4th quarter and hit clutch shots, but Wade is not far behind.Sad to say I don't see the Lakers going anywhere far soon even if they get Phil Jackson back. They'll be lucky to get past the 1st round of the playoffs next year.Kobe is no Michael Jordan and Lamar Odom is definitely not Scottie Pippen.