lokibeat 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Live two table tournament, seven handed at our table, blinds are 50/100. I have about 1600 in chips. Button is a relatively big stack (2500 chips+).I'm dealt AKs. I noticed UTG quickly go for chips but just limps in (she's a very passive player, has never raised and is extremely shy.) Button raises to 300.I'm concerned about being out of position post flop, so I re-raise 500 to create some fold equity in case I bet anything that flops. UTG sheepishly says,"well, I either have to fold or go all-in". She goes all-in (for an additional 275). Button goes all-in and I call (the way I figure it's at least 4-1 with a pretty good hand.) I was concerned about it being three way (even if the girl was cute).UTG turns over AK suited spades, Button turns over JJ. Board makes UTG a spade flush, and button wins the side pot when I don't hit anything (I needed a jack to make a straight so I only had 6 live outs). Seems to me it was a no brainer, but I looked up the win % on the hand and I was only 20% to win. Should I have tried to figure out what I was up against? I really discounted UTG until she raised All-in, but I think at best I would have put her on pp, maybe tens. Maybe her raise should have clued me in she had AK, but no raise first to act just threw me.I wasn't worried about button since I really wanted to isolate against him. I didn't put him on AA or KK as I figured he would have bet more than 3x bb. Is there any circumstance where you can lay this down? Chime in please.... Link to post Share on other sites
gobears 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 With AKs - it's a great starting hand but typically needs to improve as you're behind any PP. It sounds like it is still early in the tourney, so I would probably have called the $300 bet and reacted to the flop. You don't have to worry about UTG raising it up after you as you said that she is passive.The other option would be to isolate and go all-in, but I think that is too aggressive this early in the tourney.In your case, I think that you have to see it thru although with two players in, one of your aces or kings are probably gone as outs. Link to post Share on other sites
DCWildcat 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 The other option would be to isolate and go all-in, but I think that is too aggressive this early in the tourney.I'm sort of confused...if blinds are 50/100 and you have 1600, big stack has 2500, has the action just been ridiculously slow all day? I'm not a fan of the 3rd raise. With blinds that high, you need to push, fold, or call. The great side of AK is that you're rarely wb, but the bad side is that you're also rarely wa; because of the latter, you want this heads up.Do not call. Calling is least preferable because if you call and miss the flop (which you will 70% of the time...you won't be seeing a turn here), you'll be down to 1300 chips with 100 blinds, which you simply can't do.An important consideration is the big stack button. With blinds like these and the extreme passiveness of UTG, there's a big chance he's trying to push everyone else off the hand with a mediocre holding. Your read of him is important in your judgment of this situation.I would advocate pushing here, mainly due to the blinds, and the fact that you're unlikely to get a hand this good before you have to make a high-card all in in a round or two. You're still a long way from the money, and you need to double up quickly--even if you do, when the blinds go up to 100/200, they'll still be at your back. Folding isn't that bad, though.Edit: Read the post below mine to realize why mine is wrong. Then proceed to ignore mine 8) Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 If UTG is very shy... then pushes all-in after limping, and then gets a caller, you HAVE to figure some of your outs are gone. Even if it is a big stack you think it trying to bully or whatnot---he called the all-in. He has something. I think at best you're a favorite to AQ or AJ and a coinflip with a PP, while having atleast one of your Aces gone. If UTG is shy, but limp-reraises all-in, you should definately figure she has AA, KK, QQ or AK. What else would she limp-reraise all-in with? Add to that that with AK, you're calling off all of your chips with a drawing hand where you're more than likely behind a PP, and in a spot where you can fold and have plenty of chips left in the tournament, this is a no-brainer fold. In a cash game calling isn't bad, but in a tournament where you're out if you don't hit, fold this in a heartbeat. Link to post Share on other sites
Makata 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I think call PF is the best way to go. The difference between 1300 and 1600 is not crucial. Reraise is pretty bad overall unless you're possitive the limper is going to fold. Short stacks often take unneeded risks in tournaments.However the way you played it, you reraised to 800, UTG shoved for 1075 total, and button would have come in for 1600 total (effectively) to you, making you 800 to call. With 3475 in the pot and 800 to go, you'd have to be possitive you're either up against AA or KK, or that one of the two players has AK exactly and the other a pp. For these I'll assume your suit was hearts.- AKh vs KcKs vs JcJd is 29/52/18- AKh vs AcAs vs JcJd is 10/71/18- AKh vs AKs vs JcJd is 21/21/58, not good enough to call, even knowing you're left very short stacked.- AKh vs AJs vs JcJd is 40/11/49, which WOULD be good enough to call.- AKh vs AQs/ATs/KQs/KTs vs JcJd all leave you around 35-36%, again good enough to call.- AKh vs 88 vs JJ leaves you around 38%.So unfortunately for you, even if you could possitively rule out AA and KK for the button and put him on a lower pair, UTG had about the only hand that could forfeit enough of your outs to make your call bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Rock Crawler 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I would pretty much have to agree with RISEorFALL but I'll also add this. If the button is a decent player he is most likely aware of Miss passive also. If your going to put her on AA, KK, QQ or AK he is most likely going to also. And then he calls her??? Whats he got that he is willing to call?? Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 I'm concerned about being out of position post flop, so I re-raise 500 to create some fold equity in case I bet anything that flops.If that's the case, you should just push over the top of button's raise to blow UTG out of the hand. Calling button's raise is probably better.The small reraise was horrible. Link to post Share on other sites
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