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Targeted the head of a player engaged with another while trying to deal with the puck (the actual object of the game of hockey).

 

Exactly what you described, done by Hornqvist 60 days ago:

 

I may even argue Hornqvist targeted the head more than Wilson. I'm not smart enough to know that myself, but sure looks like it to me.

Should I go searching for your posts on how that should not be allowed in the game, and why Hornqvist isn't suspended? :)

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I think Fleury has been great, and the last thing I want to do is take something away from him, but no way this is a case of a team riding a hot goalie to wins. This team is ridiculously good at.....I

NSH over COL in 5 WPG over MIN in 5 VGK over LAK in 6 ANA over SJS in 6   NSH over WPG in 7 ANA over VGK in 6   NSH over ANA in 5   TBL over NJD in 4 TOR over BOS in 6 PIT over PHI in 6 C

ahh, playoff time, time to curl into a ball on the couch and rock back and forth nervously for 3 hours each night until the Leafs and the Wild are eliminated.

My first thought was that you Zach are highly biased, and its hard for me to take your views as objective.

Then I looked at Carcillos words, and I can see what he is talking about with regards to the skate.

 

 

I guess the question I would have for you in reverse is....do you like hitting in hockey? Do you think there is a way to hit hard and still never make contact with the head? I don't think there is. If that means there is no hitting in hockey, so be it for me. It would come at a loss, but I dont think there is a way to hit hard and not injure someone head.

 

I dont get much out of violence in sports. I've never been a proponent of fighting in hockey, have always kind of detested it and been embarrassed as a fan of the sport. I dont like football as much anymore because I see what it does and I find it hard to watch.

But, there has always been something about hard hitting hockey in the playoffs I have liked. When its dirty, I get upset, and I dont like it even when someone on my own team does it. Not a fan of "hard players who get under your skin". Thats code for assh*le.

And while Tom Wilson hits hard and doesnt take into account injuries, hope you will feel same next time Hornqvist does one of his dirty plays. :)

 

Am I biased? Probably not as much as you think. I'm biased by my preference to not see players get injured, regardless of the colours they wear.

 

Do I like hitting in hockey? Honestly, I'm indifferent. The purpose of a body check, as defined in the NHL rules [citation needed], is to separate a player from the puck. This is your normal physical contact that happens throughout the game, and is very good. This can be done without head hunting, charging, running guys. There's a *huge* difference between making a hockey play using body contact, and using body checks for the sake of being predatory.

 

Also, what I don't give a shit about keeping in the game is "finishing your check" where you hit a guy a second or two after he moves the puck. I don't have time for players running guys who are vulnerable, already engaged with someone else, or just in a precarious position. And on a related note, I don't understand why it's de facto legal to cross check someone 15 times just because he's 10 feet away from your goalie.

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Exactly what you described, done by Hornqvist 60 days ago:

 

I may even argue Hornqvist targeted the head more than Wilson. I'm not smart enough to know that myself, but sure looks like it to me.

Should I go searching for your posts on how that should not be allowed in the game, and why Hornqvist isn't suspended? :)

 

In that video Hornqvist hit looks much worse..He comes from a farther distance and goes for McAvoy's head...Mcavoy's jaw wasnt broken and he got up however..

 

The funny part of that video is Chara punching Kessel in the face..Kessel is shocked and says what the hell man..What did I do..

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Exactly what you described, done by Hornqvist 60 days ago:

 

I may even argue Hornqvist targeted the head more than Wilson. I'm not smart enough to know that myself, but sure looks like it to me.

Should I go searching for your posts on how that should not be allowed in the game, and why Hornqvist isn't suspended? :)

 

That's an interesting one. Real-time looks like nothing. The reverse angle is pretty awful though.

 

I'm sure I didn't call for a suspension at the time (as I don't do with 95% of head hits), but I'm also 100% certain I wouldn't have defended Hornqvist there, either. He charges at a guy who is in a defenseless position and hits his head primarily. He doesn't "explode" into him like Wilson seems to like to do, so I'm not sure it's worse, but it's no more defensible. I'd be happy to get rid of this hit. Hitting him there does very little, if anything, to improve Pittsburgh's chance at scoring. He had already given the puck away. Angle him out of the play with a softer check that doesn't target the head, and let Malkin do his thing with the puck.

 

I'm fine with McAvoy's hit later in the sequence. He separates Hornqvist from the puck with a strong check. Not violent, not at the head, and leads to a turnover. That's the point of body checking in hockey.

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In that video Hornqvist hit looks much worse..He comes from a farther distance and goes for McAvoy's head...Mcavoy's jaw wasnt broken and he got up however..

 

The funny part of that video is Chara punching Kessel in the face..Kessel is shocked and says what the hell man..What did I do..

 

I also hate the fact that discipline is predicated on injury. Punishing the result rather than the decision to make a reckless play.

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I hate to sound like Don Cherry..But I am going to..

 

The instigator rule has in my opinion increased head hunting, illegal hits, crosschecks...

 

This is what the old school players will tell you, but the new guys probably will disagree...

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I also hate the fact that discipline is predicated on injury. Punishing the result rather than the decision to make a reckless play.

 

I totally agree with you...However I believe that is one of the factors that is looked at by the NHL office when making the decision..I totally think its wrong to do it that way

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I hate to sound like Don Cherry..But I am going to..

 

The instigator rule has in my opinion increased head hunting, illegal hits, crosschecks...

 

This is what the old school players will tell you, but the new guys probably will disagree...

 

What are you talking about? It doesn't do anything to stop guys from jumping people even after big "clean" hits. It's almost rarely called, too.

 

Guys get jumped and then they both get 2 for roughing soooo frequently.

 

If you have to start your post with "I hate to sound like Don Cherry," you should probably just stop because you're almost certain to be wrong. :-)

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Also, the answer to violence isn't more violence.

 

Like, if we think getting rid of the instigator means that Ryan Reaves is allowed to just pummel an unwilling combatant a shift or two later to exact revenge, then I don't really have time for that either.

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Also, the answer to violence isn't more violence.

 

Like, if we think getting rid of the instigator means that Ryan Reaves is allowed to just pummel an unwilling combatant a shift or two later to exact revenge, then I don't really have time for that either.

 

Thats how it was back in the day..I believe that hits to the head, attempts to injure were not as prevalent as they are....

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Thats how it was back in the day..I believe that hits to the head, attempts to injure were not as prevalent as they are....

Thats how it was back in the day..I believe that hits to the head, attempts to injure were not as prevalent as they are....

 

back in the day equipment looked like this

 

 

2014-10-28-17.15.01.jpg

 

Today like this

 

hockey-elbow-pad-fit-shoulder-pads.jpg

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while true and a valid point that is not lost on the argument, not relevant to my point that I made earlier..

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So if there was no instigator rule in place, Tom Wilson would be too scared to hit peoples head?

 

You may want to learn a bit more about Tom Wilson. He's the last guy in the league to be deterred by having to fight. Without looking it up, I would argue he has had more fighting majors than anyone the last 3 years.

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back in the day equipment looked like this

 

 

2014-10-28-17.15.01.jpg

 

Today like this

 

hockey-elbow-pad-fit-shoulder-pads.jpg

 

It's ridiculous and I can't believe it's not more of an issue. Equipment reached the tipping point years ago and is just as much a weapon nowadays. Put those top shoulder pads on Tom Wilson and I guarantee he won't be running around like he does now.

 

Elbow pads were designed to protect the elbows. They worked well for years and I don't recall an increase in elbow injuries. It's weird why they became so ridiculously hard.

 

 

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So if there was no instigator rule in place, Tom Wilson would be too scared to hit peoples head?

 

You may want to learn a bit more about Tom Wilson. He's the last guy in the league to be deterred by having to fight. Without looking it up, I would argue he has had more fighting majors than anyone the last 3 years.

 

Your points can be validated without the condescending tone and remarks..I am well aware of who Tom Wilson is...It was a general hypothesis that is held by a lot of old school hockey people led by the likes of Don Cherry. I understand most of you dont like Don Cherry and his beliefs and views are antiquated...Having had a lot of these conversations intimately with a player that was an enforcer and one of the toughest guys that ever played, the views are validated by a lot of people..It doesnt necessarily mean that you have to agree...Its a viewpoint that may or may not be supported by statistics..I would argue a lot of the stick fouls, head hunting and general bullshit that is prevalent in the game today that is instigated by the cowardly acts of certain players might be less prevalent if there was a sort of policing that was done by the enforcers.

 

Granted this part of the game has generally gone away. Probably for the better, as we dont see too many players that's sole purpose is to fight and defend the stars on the team. Brushing it off to say its not a thing, or maybe it was never a thing, is irresponsible by the person making the argument. In my humble opinion.

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Your points can be validated without the condescending tone and remarks..I am well aware of who Tom Wilson is...It was a general hypothesis that is held by a lot of old school hockey people led by the likes of Don Cherry. I understand most of you dont like Don Cherry and his beliefs and views are antiquated...Having had a lot of these conversations intimately with a player that was an enforcer and one of the toughest guys that ever played, the views are validated by a lot of people..It doesnt necessarily mean that you have to agree...Its a viewpoint that may or may not be supported by statistics..I would argue a lot of the stick fouls, head hunting and general bullshit that is prevalent in the game today that is instigated by the cowardly acts of certain players might be less prevalent if there was a sort of policing that was done by the enforcers.

 

Granted this part of the game has generally gone away. Probably for the better, as we dont see too many players that's sole purpose is to fight and defend the stars on the team. Brushing it off to say its not a thing, or maybe it was never a thing, is irresponsible by the person making the argument. In my humble opinion.

 

- I was referring only to Tom Wilson, not disagreeing with your instigator rule theory in general. That is who we were talking about, and you brought up the instigator rule. I pointed out that he fights a lot, and that you may not be aware of this, since in regards to what he did last night, you brought up the instigator rule. Feel free to re-read and let me know where I "say its not a thing, or maybe it was never a thing", as you said, about the instigator rule

 

- I don't have a friend who played in the NHL that I speak with "intimately", so I will defer to you and the views that are somehow "validated by a lot of people". You win?

 

- I apologize for being so "irresponsible" with my remarks. I'll try to do better in the future, I know I have a tendency to not take my role as an FCP poster with the level of maturity and accountability that I should. I just take this stuff way too lightly!

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- I was referring only to Tom Wilson, not disagreeing with your instigator rule theory in general. That is who we were talking about, and you brought up the instigator rule. I pointed out that he fights a lot, and that you may not be aware of this, since in regards to what he did last night, you brought up the instigator rule. Feel free to re-read and let me know where I "say its not a thing, or maybe it was never a thing", as you said, about the instigator rule

 

- I don't have a friend who played in the NHL that I speak with "intimately", so I will defer to you and the views that are somehow "validated by a lot of people". You win?

 

- I apologize for being so "irresponsible" with my remarks. I'll try to do better in the future, I know I have a tendency to not take my role as an FCP poster with the level of maturity and accountability that I should. I just take this stuff way too lightly!

 

 

meh no need for being serious..I have my views you have yours..Its all good..

 

More important question..Is Rick Dudley gonna do anything in Carolina?

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This blog article while not main stream, is from a couple of years ago. It does a very good job articulating why the instigator rule has failed and the removal of it would benefit the game. I am in favor of removing fighting all together, however if fighting is still a thing these are some very good points that are made by someone that isnt named Don Cherry.

 

https://hockeytalkie.wordpress.com/2016/04/03/why-the-instigator-rule-is-an-abject-failure/

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More important question..Is Rick Dudley gonna do anything in Carolina?

 

Yes, drive the final nail into the Carolina coffin, and allow the owner to move the team.

Or win a Cup in Carolina.

 

Not sure yet which.

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Yes, drive the final nail into the Carolina coffin, and allow the owner to move the team.

Or win a Cup in Carolina.

 

Not sure yet which.

 

Fred Can Hold Lard

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Good call on the three games, Serge. I was hoping for 4, but 3 is ok. It’s still not a huge deterrent, but whateves.

 

I don’t disagree that 4 or 5 are justified. 3 playoff games though mean a bit more than regular season to the team. How does the money work though?

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