valente 0 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Played in my first 10K tourney at the Mirage.My first table consisted of David Oppenhiem, David Grey, Johnny Chan, and Mr Daniel Negreneau.From my observation it seems that most of the pros are jealous of all of Daniels success. Alot of comments about him and all the money he has..I was impressed by Daniel, he called a crackshot draw on my set of 8s in an unraised pot, and I payed him off on the river. He also made an amazing read on my hand when i held A4c, the flop was 2s 5s Qx, he made a standard size bet into me, and i returned the favor of calling a crack shot.. turn was 9s and we both checked the river was the As, he checked again.. and i bet thinking my A was good. After I bet he looked at me... and said "why are you betting now ?? dont you see the 4 spades on the board ?" You didnt see them did you.. you think your A is good.. thats why your betting but you dont see the4 spades... he was right i didnt.. damn he's good.. but he folded anyways... i showed him my hand, he said we had the same hand... im guessing he didnt see the 4 spades at first either.he increased his stack about 50% in the first 2 levels, but then he made what i thought was a weird play.. he called off all his chips to a very aggressive oppenent (who also had a large stack)on a J Ts 7s board, he held JT.. imho he would of done better to fold that hand and look for a better opprotunity... he was ahead when all the chips went in but still why risk all your chips at that point so early in the tourney when he was one of the bigger stacks?? Link to post Share on other sites
norcalonica 0 Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 the reason he put his money in with top two was because of eho his opponent was...the guy "bobby" is notorious for putting in all his money with draws and dn knew that and took advantage of it...cards just didnt fall his way...ohterwise its a great call from dn Link to post Share on other sites
valente 0 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 it may have been the "tecnically" correct call but.. why risk your tournament on it?when your such a strong player and you have chips.. why risk it here ? Link to post Share on other sites
valente 0 Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 55 - 45 is not a great spot for daniel.. i would bet he would find much more favourable situations to get all his money in.. keep in mind he called all in... not bet allin Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Wow, I'm surprised my call with the best hand has created so much debate? First of all, it wasn't 55-45, it was more like 58-42. Second of all, there was already a ton of money in the pot when I made the call. Folding in that situation would have been HORRIBLE. Not slightly bad, not questionable, but horrible. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 im confused why some people say wait for a better spothe had Top Two pair......if youre still waiting for a better spot....you must get bluffed easily Link to post Share on other sites
valente 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 un raised pot... i say you could of found a better spot.. thats my take on it.. he could of had 77 for a set, 89 for a straight.. i guess if you said you were simply trying to win that hand and only that hand, i say call...if your trying to win the tournament, fold. Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 It seems like some of you guys are on an eternal search for a "better spot". I'm just waiting for the day when someone raises 5x the BB with A-A, the flop comes A-2-5 and they are ripped for calling the all-in because there opponent could have 3-4 and would be better to luck for a better spot rather than gamble here. The ideas of poker and gambling seem to be mutually exclusive to some people, nothing could be further from the truth, you gotta have gamble to play against these tournament fields. Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 And if another guy says he could have this hand, he could have that hand, you just cant know i'm gonna scream. Thats the whole point of poker, knowing, figureing out your opponents cards. Link to post Share on other sites
valente 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Acesgotcracked.. you failed to realize one important element to this hand, there was NO raise pre flop.when that situation occurs.. i think you have to worry about all possible hands. if you hold AA and raise 5x the Bb, obviosly no one would hold 34... and if they did, you can catch up by pairing the board. Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 If a guy flopped the nut straight, why in gods name would he just move all in?Unless hes extremely short stacked, why would he kill his action with 8-9. You could possibly eliminate 7-7 because most aggressive players raise with that pre-flop. Its a mute point, Daniel made a good read and got unlucky. Link to post Share on other sites
DanielNegreanu 141 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 un raised pot... i say you could of found a better spot.. thats my take on it.. he could of had 77 for a set, 89 for a straight.. i guess if you said you were simply trying to win that hand and only that hand, i say call...if your trying to win the tournament, fold. He could have had all of those hands... but he didn't. My read was that he didn't based on the way he put his chips in the pot. I had a dead read on him, knowing that I was a favorite with a ton of money already in the pot. If you are trying to win the tournament, you HAVE TO call when you have a strong read. If you fold, you are simply playing not to lose... If it were John Juanda, or Dan Harrington or someone like that I would have played the hand totally different. It was Crazy Bobby! He could have a ton of hands, EXCEPT the nuts. How do I know that? Well, I can't give away all of my secrets can I? Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Daniel, dont you realize, its the opinion of pretty much everyone on this site that you can never have a dead read on a guy. I posted a story a while back about calling a $150(1-2 NL) river bet with a pair of fives on a board of 2c-3c-6c-5h-2s, with K-5 off because I had put the guy on the naked Ace of clubs and I was called a fish for calling with such a weak hand even though my read was dead on. Everyone in my club(Dallas games)thought it was a monster call, but all these on-line players know better I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Daniel, dont you realize, its the opinion of pretty much everyone on this site that you can never have a dead read on a guy. I posted a story a while back about calling a $150(1-2 NL) river bet with a pair of fives on a board of 2c-3c-6c-5h-2s, with K-5 off because I had put the guy on the naked Ace of clubs and I was called a fish for calling with such a weak hand even though my read was dead on. Everyone in my club(Dallas games)thought it was a monster call, but all these on-line players know better I guess.the funny thing is, I asked you why you didn't take a different line on the hand and never got a response from you, by the way don't generalize everyone by saying "but all these online players" because that's just dumb. Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 WHy I didn't put him on another hand? Various reasons and factors that if I wrote right now would result in the hi-jacking of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 WHy I didn't put him on another hand? Various reasons and factors that if I wrote right now would result in the hi-jacking of this thread."different line on the hand"= why not check/raise, check/call, or use a stop and go somewhere(not actually what I'm suggesting on your hand but just to show you what I meant by saying that) Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Why didn't I check raise, because after the turn paired me I knew I had the best of it but knew he would call a large check raise and didn't want to lose risk my whole stack on him getting lucky on the river spikeing an ace or a club. Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Why didn't I check raise, because after the turn paired me I knew I had the best of it but knew he would call a large check raise and didn't want to lose risk my whole stack on him getting lucky on the river spikeing an ace or a club.read the last sentence of my last post, it's not what I was suggesting on YOUR HAND, I was using those for an EXAMPLE. Link to post Share on other sites
Acesgotcracked 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Well what line would you have suggested? Link to post Share on other sites
fuzznucket 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Acesgotcracked.. Â you failed to realize one important element to this hand, there was NO raise pre flop.when that situation occurs.. i think you have to worry about all possible hands. if you hold AA and raise 5x the Bb, obviosly no one would hold 34... and if they did, you can catch up by pairing the board.You're so confident in this point that I almost believed you knew what you were talking about. Link to post Share on other sites
allinbluff35 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Well what line would you have suggested?i believe I suggested numerous lines to take in your original thread that I think would have been better. Link to post Share on other sites
koa 0 Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 If you watch all the succesful tournament players except maybe Hellmuth, they are not afraid to play big pots, especially as the favorite. This should tell you something. Doyle, Ivey, Negraneau etc all will put their money in if warranted. To me having a big stack is essential to winning tournaments, early or not you can't be afraid to call with the best hand. Link to post Share on other sites
kidpoker1218 0 Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 DN is propbably one of the most agressive players in the world and that is why he is #36 in the world ranking so im sure he had a good reason for doing that, and im sure if he had to do it again he would. Link to post Share on other sites
sam_abc777 0 Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Valente, how can u fault Daniel for making the RIGHT play? He knew what his opponent had and he made the correct play based on the information. U dont win tournaments by folding 60% edges. Better spot? Ud b hardpressed to find a better spot then that. By the way how well did u do in that tournament? Link to post Share on other sites
greatwhite 0 Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Are 4000-8000 the highest limits around. I did here there was a 10 million dollar cash game at Bellagio once, but I am not sure how high the limit games go in Vegas. Link to post Share on other sites
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