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LOL, no

 

You make a compelling case.

I've changed my mind.

 

Perhaps you can find a buzzfeed article to support your position that cites two expert economists and a retired vice chair of the Chamber of Commerce, about why Trump is ALL WRONG!

 

Anyway, yes, and that is precisely how someone like him negotiates.

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What's funny? He has a good brain, a great brain. He talks to a lot of people, the best people, and he has the best plan to make things great. He talks to the best and smartest people and uses his tre

I'm hoping she makes Bernie her VP and the indictment comes after the election

so, not random, not a billionaire. gotcha.

You make a compelling case.

I've changed my mind.

 

Perhaps you can find a buzzfeed article to support your position that cites two expert economists and a retired vice chair of the Chamber of Commerce, about why Trump is ALL WRONG!

 

Anyway, yes, and that is precisely how someone like him negotiates.

 

it's such a ridiculous postion if you understand anything about China and Chinese Amercian relations.

 

To change from the One China position is pretty close to declaring war on China to the Chinese and it is never something that will be used as a bargaining chip. To even hint about it could have massive negative consequences.

 

The day that a Taiwanese government declares that they aren't part of China is the day that the missiles fly and there is large faction of Chinese leadership and the Chinese military who would love to put the Taiwanese in their place.

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http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/30/congress-seeks-to-strengthen-us-taiwan-military-al/

 

Obama strengthens US military commitment to defend Taiwan... Such a great diplomat

 

Trump talks to Taiwan premier...reckless and dangerous.

 

I'll go with Stupid things liberals believe for $500 Alex.

 

 

"We will go to war of you invade"

 

Not a problem with China

 

"I'll say hi to Taiwan's premier"

 

China may invade California!

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http://m.washingtont...an-military-al/

 

Obama strengthens US military commitment to defend Taiwan... Such a great diplomat

 

Trump talks to Taiwan premier...reckless and dangerous.

 

I'll go with Stupid things liberals believe for $500 Alex.

 

 

"We will go to war of you invade"

 

Not a problem with China

 

"I'll say hi to Taiwan's premier"

 

China may invade California!

 

If you want to understand China better I suggest following Patrick Chovancec. He is a Republican Finance and China expert who taught at a University in China for 5 years.

 

https://twitter.com/prchovanec

 

Patrick Chovanec

‏@prchovanec

People perplexed at why China cares about US words and not US weapons re Taiwan should read:

51RExAqf3IL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

When Nixon went to China, he expected tough, concrete demands from Mao on withdrawing US troops and weapons from Taiwan.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

Instead, Mao brushed it aside, said all that can sort itself out later, we only care you recognize principle of One China.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

Nixon and Kissinger were shocked, but this is classic Chinese negotiating priority: agree on principles, all else will follow.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

Of course, that's NOT classic US negotiating stance, so all else did NOT follow as Chinese expected.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

Nevertheless, Chinese believe that US recognition of One China principle remains the key to ultimately getting what they want.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

According to this view, things like US weapons sales are aggravating but fundamentally transient, as long as US accepts principle.

 

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

If US rejects One China, Chinese view of US relationship changes at molecular level. This is why drastic response is entirely conceivable.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

None of this implies US must or should continue One China policy, just that changing it has significant implications that are quite real.

 

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 7h7 hours ago

For Beijing, hints that US might support Taiwan independence is not unlike the Zimmerman Telegram was to the U.S. in 1917.

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it's such a ridiculous postion if you understand anything about China and Chinese Amercian relations.

 

To change from the One China position is pretty close to declaring war on China to the Chinese and it is never something that will be used as a bargaining chip. To even hint about it could have massive negative consequences.

 

The day that a Taiwanese government declares that they aren't part of China is the day that the missiles fly and there is large faction of Chinese leadership and the Chinese military who would love to put the Taiwanese in their place.

 

I realize you're "the China guy" around these parts but I understand how trolls negotiate better than you do and Trump is, first and foremost, a troll.

 

He is absolutely using that as a bargaining chip, given that China ceding to our other demands on trade is a helluva lot less consequential than our taking steps towards recognizing Taiwan because they would't cede to our demands.

 

And cede they will because they know Trump is a man who will do precisely whatever will troll them most.

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James FallowsVerified account

‏@JamesFallows

If you know anything about Chinese foreign-policy people, this will get your attention. Shen opposite of a hothead http://mobile.nytime...nald-trump.html

 

Cyw7A64WEAAeOiY.jpg

 

 

You're really big on "... a college professor says" and then believing it as gospel. You do realize that college professors, like lawyers, are usually the smart people of idiots, right? I'll give him a half pass since that generalization usually applies to American college professor, but the same factors are in play.

 

The operative point here is that China will do what we tell them to do because they don't want to risk things getting to the point where they're cutting off diplomatic relations. Also, in an era of a guy who DGAF about 'consensus' and who isn't afraid to take decisive action, China's role as 'negotiator' with annoying nation-states is seriously diminished.

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You're really big on "... a college professor says" and then believing it as gospel. You do realize that college professors, like lawyers, are usually the smart people of idiots, right? I'll give him a half pass since that generalization usually applies to American college professor, but the same factors are in play.

 

The operative point here is that China will do what we tell them to do because they don't want to risk things getting to the point where they're cutting off diplomatic relations. Also, in an era of a guy who DGAF about 'consensus' and who isn't afraid to take decisive action, China's role as 'negotiator' with annoying nation-states is seriously diminished.

 

it's about understanding China

 

They use people like Shen Digli who is a Professor but more importantly a senior advisor on policy to the most Senior levels of Chinese leadership as a way to signal without it coming officially from a government source. When somebody like him says something like that he is doing it after it is approved by Chinese leadership.

 

Sure it's posturing but don't ever understate the importance of symbolism and "face" to China. A minor public snub can be far far worse for relations than private hard truths are.

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and about your College Professor comment that doesn't apply the same way with Economics and Finance types. Patrick Chovancec for example teaches but his day job is as a senior executive with an Investment Firm. Most of the top guys in these fields are making millions per year while still teaching at Universities as well.

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Making the narrative that all conditions dealing with China will be filtered through China's wants, needs and phobias is a state department problem, meaning it's not real, it's protocol..

 

That logic says Bill Clinton was reckless for making Albright the SecState because so many cultures don't accept women in authority.

 

Carry this to it's extreme and we will have to just give China whatever they want.

 

Here's the thing, we can defeat China militarily, economically, and in a dance contest.

 

We don't need China, they need us.

 

I don't care if China decides to close their embassies and their borders. More oil for us.

 

This is a natural conclusion from the liberal notion that not being liked is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a country. That Obama was going to make us loved again.

 

Think of it as the NYTimes.

 

They were the biggest, the baddest. They made news and broke news.

 

Now Trump calls them to a meeting, refuses to let them dictate agenda, and tells them they suck.

 

And they leave and pretend they are still what they used to be.

 

They aren't, it's okay to point and laugh now. They can't do anything because they never were what they told you they were.

 

 

Force China to close it's economy to America and watch how long before Tiananmen Square The Return plays in a capital near you...well, them.

 

Their government can't risk their relationship with us. We will just open plants in the other 20 countries with large populations of people willing to work for $200 a month.

 

 

Time for the communist to understand that their 5,000 year old culture still hasn't addressed public urination, so it's mystic is slightly overrated

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Patrick Chovanec

‏@prchovanec

1. As a little bit of context, it's worth reviewing what the 1995-96 Taiwan Straits Crisis was all about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis

 

2. It began when then-president of ROC (Taiwan) Lee Teng-hui applied for a US visa to speak at his alma mater, Cornell.

3. Lee, like the current ROC president, was regarded as favoring independence for Taiwan from China.

4. The previous year, US denied him a visa, leaving him standard and embarrassed, and pro-Taiwan US Congressmen furious at Clinton.

5. So US relented, issued Lee a visa, assuring China it was a private trip and not an official visit.

6. China's response was to hold major military exercises off Taiwan, including a series of threatening missile launches.

7. The US responded to that by sending two aircraft carrier battle groups steaming into the Taiwan Strait.

8. The ability of US to do this prompted China, in subsequent years, to develop anti-ship ballistic missiles for taking out US carriers.

9. My point is not that US shouldn't have granted Lee his visa. Or that the US was wrong to face down China over its saber-rattling.

10. My point is that this stuff is serious. Something seemingly innocuous (granting a visa) can actually trigger a serious confrontation.

11. China's saber-rattling in 1995 was widely considered counter-productive, creating a backlash among Taiwan public opinion.

12. And US successfully stood up to Chinese saber rattling, though China was much weaker then than it is today.

13. There are many in China's military who think that a replay of that confrontation would play out very different today.

14. The point is not that US should bend over backwards to please China, but that we can't be cavalier in dismissing the risks.

15. When I was in Army ROTC, I wrote my military history paper on Custer. He was a cocky, cavalier SOB who got himself killed.

16. He didn't do any recon, he underestimated his enemy, he just rode right in, squandering all his advantages, and got wiped out.

17. Custer didn't have a plan at Little Big Horn. He didn't think he needed a plan. He was going to be an American hero.

18. All I can say is, if Trump does have a plan to face down China over Taiwan, I hope he's got a good "red team" challenging every move.

19. For those unfamiliar with the term "red team": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_team

 

Patrick Chovanec ‏@prchovanec 6h6 hours ago

20. Final word from Sun Tzu: "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious." 知可战与不可战者胜

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Making the narrative that all conditions dealing with China will be filtered through China's wants, needs and phobias is a state department problem, meaning it's not real, it's protocol..

 

That logic says Bill Clinton was reckless for making Albright the SecState because so many cultures don't accept women in authority.

 

Carry this to it's extreme and we will have to just give China whatever they want.

 

Here's the thing, we can defeat China militarily, economically, and in a dance contest.

 

We don't need China, they need us.

 

I don't care if China decides to close their embassies and their borders. More oil for us.

 

This is a natural conclusion from the liberal notion that not being liked is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a country. That Obama was going to make us loved again.

 

Think of it as the NYTimes.

 

They were the biggest, the baddest. They made news and broke news.

 

Now Trump calls them to a meeting, refuses to let them dictate agenda, and tells them they suck.

 

And they leave and pretend they are still what they used to be.

 

They aren't, it's okay to point and laugh now. They can't do anything because they never were what they told you they were.

 

 

Force China to close it's economy to America and watch how long before Tiananmen Square The Return plays in a capital near you...well, them.

 

Their government can't risk their relationship with us. We will just open plants in the other 20 countries with large populations of people willing to work for $200 a month.

 

 

Time for the communist to understand that their 5,000 year old culture still hasn't addressed public urination, so it's mystic is slightly overrated

 

 

 

I will have to look at the lay of the land before I do any serious political commentary but at first glance everything look about the same as 6 years ago. It looks as if everyone has just become more firmly entrenched in that which they already believed.

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Congrats, you responded to a forum bot.

 

high five.

 

 

The forum has bots now? Multi-accounting was the thing back in the day but bots would be a new spin. (For me anyhow.)

 

Anyway, back to my overall observation though: nobody has moved. BG is still firm conservative with no give. Bob is still firmly liberal as can be but polite about it at least. DN is still losing his mind on Twitter at anything that doesn't dance in his safe space. (A tad quiet lately, but that's to be expected.)

 

I don't know. I guess I just expected to see some growth or shifting here and there but nope. It's the same players with the same arguments. (Some new faces here and there.)

 

I will say that BG has been completely vindicated along with every other Trump supporter. I spent the past year fending off attack after attack and honestly election night felt good. Like Chris Matthews warm fuzzies in the pants good. Wasn't about Trump, it was about me. I saw what I saw in the electorate, the pulse of the people, and I was right. So basically I popped a boner at my own genius.

 

Seriously, not a bot. I would login under the old Loismustdie or one of the multis but those emails have long been deleted and the passwords long forgotten. LMDizzle just popped in my head.

 

 

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The forum has bots now? Multi-accounting was the thing back in the day but bots would be a new spin. (For me anyhow.)

 

Anyway, back to my overall observation though: nobody has moved. BG is still firm conservative with no give. Bob is still firmly liberal as can be but polite about it at least. DN is still losing his mind on Twitter at anything that doesn't dance in his safe space. (A tad quiet lately, but that's to be expected.)

 

I don't know. I guess I just expected to see some growth or shifting here and there but nope. It's the same players with the same arguments. (Some new faces here and there.)

 

I will say that BG has been completely vindicated along with every other Trump supporter. I spent the past year fending off attack after attack and honestly election night felt good. Like Chris Matthews warm fuzzies in the pants good. Wasn't about Trump, it was about me. I saw what I saw in the electorate, the pulse of the people, and I was right. So basically I popped a boner at my own genius.

 

Seriously, not a bot. I would login under the old Loismustdie or one of the multis but those emails have long been deleted and the passwords long forgotten. LMDizzle just popped in my head.

 

Oh crap. Long time no talk, Lois. Glad you're not dead. You should just have Bob reset your password. I miss the old LMD avatar.

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Oh crap. Long time no talk, Lois. Glad you're not dead. You should just have Bob reset your password. I miss the old LMD avatar.

 

Yea, glad you told us LMD.

Didn't know it was you.

Glad you are still around

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So did hillary lose because Russia influenced the election?

Or because the Fbi influenced the election?

 

Or both?

 

they both played their part

 

Trump doesn't win without the Comey - Weiner stuff.

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